VR questions

[JG27_Steini]

Hello gentleman,

 

i like to give VR and IL2 a try and want to ask you some questions before buying.

 

1. I will only play IL2 with VR, doest it matter for IL2 whether i get Occulus or Vive?

2. Do i still need TrackIR or is it included in VR?

3. I do have and 1060 GTX, Intel 4320, SSD and 16GB RAM will it be enough or do i need a better system?

4. I always play on full realistic settings, are there any disadvantages i have to deal with using cockpit in VR?

 

Thank you for your help

[Dakpilot]

You will find all your answers in this section 

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/109-virtual-reality-and-vr-controllers/

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[dburne]

1: Does not matter, both will work. Currently Rift is most economical. The advantage Vive has is in large room scale, if you only play seated game like IL-2 that does not really matter. Cost of entry for Rift has the advantage.

 

2: No on Track IR, VR has 1:1 positional tracking - just like real life.

 

3: It will run it, will need to run probably lower settings. A faster system of course helps. You can run the Oculus Compatibility Checker on their website and see what it reports as well.

 

4: In current generation VR the main disadvantage is in resolution, making target ID a little tougher. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by dburne

[marklar]

 

 

4: In current generation VR the main disadvantage is in resolution, making target ID a little tougher. 

 

 

Also the virtual space for head movements is much smaller than cockpits. It means you will be hitting invisible walls when moving your head. It's pretty annoying if you ask me.

[dburne]

 

 

Also the virtual space for head movements is much smaller than cockpits. It means you will be hitting invisible walls when moving your head. It's pretty annoying if you ask me.

 

 

Agreed, if one plays SP as I do that can be got around by turning it off. For the stock campaign I would set Normal Realism then set my engine management to manual.

 

Unfortunately the MP guys flying Expert have to put up with this annoyance.

[ATA_Vasilij]

3 - Would be better to consider update your hardware. VR is demanding and sonn or later you will need better pc

 

4 - in expert maps you will hit the cockpit by your head. Because there si no much space in the plane cockpits. So you must learn to move your head less than before. To look your six you will need turn your head the full 180 degrees, that you are able to see the six. With track-ir it was enough just turn head about few degrees, according to settings. But with VR what is behind you must totaly turn your head behind. It is impossible to turn head 180 deg (If you are not an indian yoging) so you must help with your whole body. 

 

  - resolution is worse in VR. recognition of targets is worse..... BUT much better is aiming and shooting, AND 3D immersion is worth all those disadvantages. Each of us who tried VR, would never go back to the 2d monitor. 

The feeling you are really in that plane above Stalingrad is just amazing.... love it.

[marklar]

 

 

in expert maps you will hit the cockpit by your head. Because there si no much space in the plane cockpits.

 

Not a cockpit, an invisible wall. If we were hitting the actual cockpit frame no one would complain about it. 

[Lensman]

Vive is slightly superior for room scale applications (walking around and you really MUST try this whichever headset you purchase) but the Rift is close behind and is MUCH more comfoetable to wear for long periods of time like flying a full mission in IL-2. The Rift has slightly superior hand controllers too but they're not needed for IL-2.

Whichever you buy you will need a controller (joystick / throttle) with lots of assignable buttons because the keyboard is a major challenge.

VR is amazing and I own the Vive and the Rift.

[Herne]

IL2 /played time pre VR patch april 2017 : less than 100 hours
 

IL2 played time total.

 

Screen shot taken from work PC where IL2 isn't installed.

Point is VR and BoX is too damn awesome to miss out on. I play expert settings with technochat and tips off. In MP I usually turn the HUD off, for those extra few fps.

[dburne]

IL2 /played time pre VR patch april 2017 : less than 100 hours

 

IL2 played time total.

 

 

Screen shot taken from work PC where IL2 isn't installed.

 

Point is VR and BoX is too damn awesome to miss out on. I play expert settings with technochat and tips off. In MP I usually turn the HUD off, for those extra few fps.

 

Dumb question - where does one get the total play time hours?

[Herne]

Dumb question - where does one get the total play time hours?

 

that screenie is from my steam library

[ironk79]

3. i started VR with Oculus Rift CV1, i had gtx 970 , i3 4150, 8GB Ram, SSD

Main limitation was the CPU, but i could still fly solo dogfight mission, but settings to low and HDR. In Dogfights 90fps most of the time was possible

But limitations of the CPU were obvious. Swapped to an i5 4690k with 4,1ghz overclock, now i can play with settings high, 2xLandscape, normal gras, HDR, sharpen, but no fancy stuff, 4vs4 on Stalingrad map still 90fps 99% of the time

Your gtx 1060 should be good enough for mid settings, but CPU is critical. If its enough depends on your own preference. With Supersampling etc. picture qualitiy ingcreases slightly, but so do demands on the HW.

 

4. yeah, resolution makes spotting / identifying quite hard. Its a trade you have to make, but for me the feeling of actually flying trumps this shortcoming.

 

P.S. Since we dont have a clickable cockpit, you have to map all important keys so that you can find them "blindly". I receycled an old logitech joystick with faulty axes and assigned trim to throttle and other essential funktions to the buttons (Eject, Pause, Canopy, Engine start etc. If you start with your keypad you wont come very far.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ironk79

[=X51=VC_]

Head bump... meh. A little annoying in the beginning but I completely stopped noticing it. You just need to move your body to compensate, and in our chairs this is unrealistic anyway as pilots would be strapped in tight.

 

Having extra controllers is nice but if you don't, plan your key mapping around the numpad and the button group with page up/down. These areas are really easy to find by feel. I fly with left hand resting on numpad, it's almost hotas with keyboard.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I understand vive will be releasing a newer headset this year wirh much improved resolution. Probably going to be expensive but that does mean there will be vive 1 headsets going cheap on ebay etc.

VR is amazing and I own the Vive and the Rift.

Is there any resolution diference between the 2?

[Herne]

on paper resolution is the same. I think the rift with its built in headphones and mic and still being a little lighter is more comfortable for extended seated VR sessions

 

Edit: I mentioned on paper, because I think the rift may have a slightly narrower FoV. which actually helps reduce screen door effect. So image should be a little sharper, but with a little less peripheral vision

Edited February 5, 2018 by =FEW=Herne

[dburne]

that screenie is from my steam library

 

Ah ok thanks, I do not run through Steam.

[haltux]

Hello gentleman,

 

i like to give VR and IL2 a try and want to ask you some questions before buying.

 

1. I will only play IL2 with VR, doest it matter for IL2 whether i get Occulus or Vive?

2. Do i still need TrackIR or is it included in VR?

3. I do have and 1060 GTX, Intel 4320, SSD and 16GB RAM will it be enough or do i need a better system?

4. I always play on full realistic settings, are there any disadvantages i have to deal with using cockpit in VR?

 

Thank you for your help

 

What is Intel 4320? You mean AMD FX 4320?

 

If it is the case, I don't want to be the one that bring the bad news, but no your config won't be powerfull enough. The key in VR is to never ever go below 45 FPS.

 

The GTX 1060 is I think slightly below the minimum, but might be fine (on low details and without supersampling) if your processor were allright.

But with this processor, you wan't be able to sustain 45 FPS in combat. Sorry.

[...] gtx 970 [...] i5 4690k with 4,1ghz overclock, now i can play with settings high, 2xLandscape, normal gras, HDR, sharpen, but no fancy stuff, 4vs4 on Stalingrad map still 90fps 99% of the time

 

Sounds incredible. If you have a trick please share.

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

Are his stated frames doable in MP, coconut expert or WoL?

[Herne]

What is Intel 4320? You mean AMD FX 4320?

 

If it is the case, I don't want to be the one that bring the bad news, but no your config won't be powerfull enough. The key in VR is to never ever go below 45 FPS.

 

The GTX 1060 is I think slightly below the minimum, but might be fine (on low details and without supersampling) if your processor were allright.

But with this processor, you wan't be able to sustain 45 FPS in combat. Sorry.

 

Sounds incredible. If you have a trick please share.

 

I think single core speed is the main bottleneck for quality of VR in BOX. I fly with 45 FPS ASW most of the time. sometimes it can get higher depending on map, weather conditions and how busy the area I am in is. To be fair though at 45 FPS, apart from the flickering gunsight, that you quickly get used to, it's still damn good.

[=X51=VC_]

The GTX 1060 is I think slightly below the minimum

It should be way above, the minimum for Vive is a 970 and runs fine. It depends on how you like your settings but a lot of the eye candy causes blur and makes spotting, ID and instrument reading difficult. Plus 3D vision is way more immersive than screen even on lower settings.

[1./KG4_OldJames]

both vive and oculus websites have a tool that will let you know if your settings are good enough to run vr, but just because they say yes, doesn't mean that you will get the max effect from it.

 

I run a 1050ti, about the minimum gpu that is possible, or close to it, and I still would not go back to 2D

[ironk79]

"ironk79, on 05 Feb 2018 - 13:48, said:

[...] gtx 970 [...] i5 4690k with 4,1ghz overclock, now i can play with settings high, 2xLandscape, normal gras, HDR, sharpen, but no fancy stuff, 4vs4 on Stalingrad map still 90fps 99% of the time

 

Sounds incredible. If you have a trick please share."

 

Id love to, but honestly i dont know what the "trick" is. My specs and settings as stated in another thread.

 

Settings:                            

- High

- Shadows: low

- Landscape Detail: 2x

- Landscape Filter: Sharp

- HDR, Sharpen aktive

- Dynamic Resolution 0,5

- Gras normal

- No SSAO,no AA,

- no Supersampling or ASW in Oculus Tray tool

 

My System:

- i5 4690k @4,1Ghz

- GTX 970 slight overclock

- 8GB

- SSD

 

Maybe the Trick is the low dynamic resolution at 0,5 and no SS, as far as i can tell many go with DR 1 and SS up to even 1,5, wich both is very demanding. I dont mind my picture getting a bit blurry at times (following a heavy smoking plane thats slowly desintegrating) thes are the moments with the small fps dips, when physics of the is calculated the most, but even then it rarely goes below 80 fps and only for about 2-3s, other than that 90fps.

 

I did some test with ASW and auto/forced 45fps, but wasnt pleased with the visualls (blurry, double picture when planes cross your path) and the performance, that always felt a bit choppy.

 

Only thing i can really confirm is that the Upgrade of the CPU made a huge difference in overall consistent framerate, but than again it was an upgrade from a 3,5Ghz i3 to a 4,1OC I5

[haltux]

 

Only thing i can really confirm is that the Upgrade of the CPU made a huge difference in overall consistent framerate, but than again it was an upgrade from a 3,5Ghz i3 to a 4,1OC I5

 

 

That's clearly the key point. It's all about the CPU. Still that does not explain why with my i5 4670k @4.1 GHz (which is rated only very slightly under your CPU) and my GTX 1070 I almost never reach 90 FPS as soon as there is another plane around, no matter the level of details.

 

My config is realtively old (early 2014), so maybe it is a matter or RAM speed or bus speed.

 

I am also exclusively playing on BOK map. That might make a difference.

[ironk79]

That's clearly the key point. It's all about the CPU. Still that does not explain why with my i5 4670k @4.1 GHz (which is rated only very slightly under your CPU) and my GTX 1070 I almost never reach 90 FPS as soon as there is another plane around, no matter the level of details.

 

My config is realtively old (early 2014), so maybe it is a matter or RAM speed or bus speed.

 

I am also exclusively playing on BOK map. That might make a difference.

I have 8GB 1600mhz , given that the gtx is about 50% faster than my gtx970, i think the map (size and detail) contribute to this.

On the stalingrad map have a overhang of 10-25% (Oculus Tray Tool)

Since i dont have BOK yet, i can not compare. But there was a noticable difference when i still had my i3, the smallest (forgot the name) map in winter was very playable with 90fps (1vs1) almost all the time, but stalingrad map in summer had frequent noticable dips.

how does it run on the normal stalingrad map?

 

Maybe there is also another issue on the system side, i run win7 64bit and try to keep at a state with only the absolute necessary software, no additional 3rd party crap.

Havent reinstalled my System since 2014, which is quite amazing actually.

Edited February 6, 2018 by ironk79

[haltux]

There is actually a whole thread about benchmarking / performances. I'll investigate that:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29322-measuring-rig-performance-common-baseline/

[ironk79]

There is actually a whole thread about benchmarking / performances. I'll investigate that:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/29322-measuring-rig-performance-common-baseline/

Just for your information, my brother runs a setup i5 2500k @4,4 with a GTX 1060 , 8GB - also 90fps with 30+% Headroom

Settings:

Shadow:high

Distant Landscape:2x

Landscape filter:sharp

Grass: Distant

Dyn.Res.:0,5

AA: 4x

 

no HUD (same as me)

But then again, not BOK but BOS map

[Solmyr]

 

 

Not a cockpit, an invisible wall. If we were hitting the actual cockpit frame no one would complain about it. 

 

 

I'm not a VR user myself unfortunately (get the f*** off out, damn Bitcoins ! ). My graphic card couldn't handle it I guess (feel free to give me your input by checking my PC config signature  ).

But isn't what you're talking about related to the option called "Limit VR view" ??

[marklar]

 

 

But isn't what you're talking about related to the option called "Limit VR view" ??

 

It is, indeed. You can disable it when playing on Normal or Custom difficulty but not on Expert. Also most popular servers have this option enabled, except Belroga.

[dburne]

 

 

I'm not a VR user myself unfortunately (get the f*** off out, damn Bitcoins ! ). My graphic card couldn't handle it I guess (feel free to give me your input by checking my PC config signature  ).

 

 

 

Yes it would handle VR.

Certainly a 1080 GPU would serve better for VR, but yours would handle it. A 970 GPU meets the min requirement for Oculus.

[Solmyr]

Yes it would handle VR.

Certainly a 1080 GPU would serve better for VR, but yours would handle it. A 970 GPU meets the min requirement for Oculus.

 

Ty for answer. The thing is that I can't really know by myself because I have lots of stutters yet when more than 15 people on server because of Track IR 5 I think. And my in-game settings are quite low. I need to dive into all those optimization settings to improve the situation, but I know few of those things and they're pretty indigestible..   

[skline00]

JG27_Steine:

Here are the words from Oculus Rift support.

We recommend that your PC computer meets or exceed these system specifications to power the full Rift experience. If you’re not sure what hardware you have, you can use our compatibility check tool to see if your computer meets our minimum or recommended system specs.

Recommended Specs

 

Graphics Card

NVIDIA GTX 1060 / AMD Radeon RX 480 or greater

Alternative Graphics Card

NVIDIA GTX 970 / AMD Radeon R9 290 or greater

CPU

Intel i5-4590 / AMD Ryzen 5 1500X or greater

Memory

8GB+ RAM

Video Output

Compatible HDMI 1.3 video output

USB Ports

3x USB 3.0 ports, plus 1x USB 2.0 port

OS

Windows 7 SP1 64 bit or newer

 

 

Minimum Specs

 

Graphics Card

NVIDIA GTX 1050 Ti / AMD Radeon RX 470 or greater

Alternative Graphics Card

NVIDIA GTX 960 4GB / AMD Radeon R9 290 or greater

CPU

Intel i3-6100 / AMD Ryzen 3 1200, FX4350 or greater

Memory

8GB+ RAM

Video Output

Compatible HDMI 1.3 video output

USB Ports

1x USB 3.0 port, plus 2x USB 2.0 ports

OS

Windows 8.1 or newer

 

I just built a VR rig using an I7-6700k OC'd to 4.6, 16G 2933 ddr4 ram, GTX980TI housed in a Caselabs BH8 with handles (Very light and portable) and it is great. Your video card is sufficient along with ram. The cpu is on the low end but you should be able to run VR.

Edited February 6, 2018 by skline00

[marklar]

Recommended specs from Oculus team are fine if you are planning to play tech demos and simple VR games from Oculus Store. IL2 and other simulators are different kinds of beasts. 

[haltux]

 

I just built a VR rig using an I7-6700k OC'd to 4.6, 16G 2933 ddr4 ram, GTX980TI housed in a Caselabs BH8 with handles (Very light and portable) and it is great. Your video card is sufficient along with ram. The cpu is on the low end but you should be able to run VR.

 

Running VR in general and running VR in IL2 are two different stories. Most games are GPU bound but IL2 is CPU bound. If your CPU can't allow you to stay over 45 FPS all the time, you are doomed. 

 

So if OP's CPU is, as I guess, an AMD FX 4320, that will not be enough. If he buys a VR headset he might be able to enjoy it, but not in IL2.

Edited February 6, 2018 by haltux

[critical_mach]

So, Vive and Oculus are pretty comparable. I would recommend Vive if you're wanting to go current generation. As far as resolution goes, if your PC can handle it, you can supersample which helps with target acquisition and makes the screen door less noticeable.

 

It's also salient to point out that, no matter your decision, the Vive Pro will be launching in the next couple weeks to months and will nearly double the resolution of the current rift/vive. It will also have updated sensors for tracking, but the setup and tracking for the Vive is far superior to the rift. Since all the tracking data other than the base stations syncing their pulses, goes through the hmd on the Vive means you only need one usb port on your PC which is nice when you run a lot of peripherals.

 

 

Another reason to go Vive is that I am a big proponent of roomscale in all capacities, even the limited capacity it holds in BoX. There's something indescribably cool about ditching your spitfire on a hillside, then stepping out on the wing to look back at the damage. Another mind blowing aspect of this is the replaying of flight recordings in VR. With this, you can walk around what amounts to scale miniatures flying in 1/16 real time speed as you stroll next to the tracers as they fly to impact the target plane, lean in to see the wings shear off as the engine explodes. You can appreciate just how close you skimmed past your target when you broke off your attack at the last second.

 

It's truly mind blowing and some of my greatest moments of grief have revolved around realizing I forgot to start recording my flight seconds after something insane happens.

Edited February 6, 2018 by critical_mach

[dburne]

 

Another reason to go Vive is that I am a big proponent of roomscale in all capacities, even the limited capacity it holds in BoX. There's something indescribably cool about ditching your spitfire on a hillside, then stepping out on the wing to look back at the damage. Another mind blowing aspect of this is the replaying of flight recordings in VR. With this, you can walk around what amounts to scale miniatures flying in 1/16 real time speed as you stroll next to the tracers as they fly to impact the target plane, lean in to see the wings shear off as the engine explodes. You can appreciate just how close you skimmed past your target when you broke off your attack at the last second.

 

It's truly mind blowing and some of my greatest moments of grief have revolved around realizing I forgot to start recording my flight seconds after something insane happens.

 

To be fair, Oculus has come a long way in room scale over the past year.

I have no trouble at all playing in what the software considers a moderate size room scale, in my case around 12ft x 15ft.

I can walk around, turn around, with no trouble with tracking. And that is with two sensors.

 

Vive does have the advantage on larger room scale no doubt, but Oculus is no longer considered as best for seated experiences only.

[OrLoK]

I have to agree with dburne, Roomscale is fine with 2 sensors with the Rift although im sure Vive wins on achievable scale.

 

Don't believe the trope that Rifts are *only* good at seated games.

 

However, I do wish the cable was longer when I do go roomscale.

[SierraKiloGulf]

Personally I'd wait for the second gen of VR headsets about to come out so you aren't fighting with the damn screen door effect as much. Rift has better resolution, so if you will only be playing IL-2, I'd go with that over the Vive if you can not wait for second gen gear. 

I have the Vive and it was worth every penny so far, but I'm picking up one of those 8K X units once they work the kinks out of the display, I doubt your CPU would be able to keep up with one of those though so an upgrade would have to occur if waiting out for gen2 gear. 

[OrLoK]

Oddly enough i dont notice any screendoor on my Rift any more. I actively have to look for it.

 

Resolution is an issue but offset by immersion imho

[HansBlitz]

I added a 3rd sensor for my Rift and that works well for room scale. Two sensors did ok but when moving around I had a few times that 2 sensors lost tracking on one of the hand controllers. I have not had any of that after adding the 3rd sensor.

[haltux]

 

To be fair, Oculus has come a long way in room scale over the past year.

 

I have no trouble at all playing in what the software considers a moderate size room scale, in my case around 12ft x 15ft.

 

 

So I guess you had to buy 3 extention cables, one HDMI, two USB (headset + 1 sensor) ? Did you get official oculus cables?