Is it worth upgrading from Rift too Samsung oddyssey?

[kaboki]

Just got my Rift one week ago and the expirence was awsome at first, BUT the loss of clarity is ruining it, and its like I shoot myself in the foot now because there is no way I can go back flying on a 2D screen. So would ugrading to Odyssey give me any improments in clarity, seing things better in a distance?

[SYN_Mike77]

I returned my Rift for a full refund because of that very reason. Waiting for the 2nd generation VR now.

[dburne]

Just got my Rift one week ago and the expirence was awsome at first, BUT the loss of clarity is ruining it, and its like I shoot myself in the foot now because there is no way I can go back flying on a 2D screen. So would ugrading to Odyssey give me any improments in clarity, seing things better in a distance?

 

Likely not, plus that introduces some new issues with the sim as well.

 

If you can not live with clarity in Rift, probably best to wait for next full generation of PC-VR.

 

I myself could never go back to monitor gaming, but at same time I too really look forward to the next generation. All in good time.

Edited January 30, 2018 by dburne

[kaboki]

Likely not, plus that introduces some new issues with the sim as well.

 

If you can not live with clarity in Rift, probably best to wait for next full generation of PC-VR.

 

I myself could never go back to monitor gaming, but at same time I too really look forward to the next generation. All in good time.

 

So you have tried the Odyssey or are you just guessing? I would be satisfied with just small improments on SDE and more crisp picture... So that 77% increase in pixel density doesnt help at all? What issues?, is it only in il2, I mostly play DCS so if it works good there im ok...

 

Yeah, the rift basicly killed my monitor experience

Edited January 30, 2018 by kaboki

[OrLoK]

im guesstimating but although you might get a slightly better res, will the Odyssey compete in other ways , such as tracking, controllers, comfort and weight etc?

 

I'd hold off until the next gen

 

YMMV

[SCG_motoadve]

Upgrade your CPU, then you can use no dynamic resolution, 4 x AA, and SS at 2.0 the visual improved a lot from before when I had the I 7 4770,before I had to compromise, graphics on medium ect and I wasnt happy.

 

Bought an i 7 8700 , new mbo, DDR4 16 GB  of RAM.

Now Ultra settings ,

4x AA

SS 2.0

No Dynamic resolution

Fluid even in super busy battles in single player, and quality wise much better than before.

You will like it.

Totally worth the upgrade.

 

GTX 1080 GPU.

[dburne]

So you have tried the Odyssey or are you just guessing? I would be satisfied with just small improments on SDE and more crisp picture... So that 77% increase in pixel density doesnt help at all? What issues?, is it only in il2, I mostly play DCS so if it works good there im ok...

 

Yeah, the rift basicly killed my monitor experience

 

I only base my comments on what I have read over various forums over the last several weeks.

 

For me I would not care to get a WMR device for what I do. Feel free to give it a try and report you experiences with it.

Edited January 30, 2018 by dburne

[ICDP]

I have used a Rift CV1, Lenovo Explorer WMR and now an Odyssey WMR.

 

Resolution and clarity is improved on Odyssey compared to CV1 by around 30%.  77% increase in resolution gives around 30% higher PPI and since both CV1 have ~90mm screen and 110deg FOV the PPD (pixels per degree) is overall around 30% better.

 

Rift does have slightly better sweetspot but that is the only area it has actual IQ advantage.  Inside out tracking for sims and even roomscale has given me very few problems.

 

Like you I loved CV1 at first but just stopped using in BOS after maybe a few weeks because it was utterly useless for anything but some sight seeing.  Even then it was as long as you could put up with horrendous IQ.  It doesn't help that I have a 4K 32" IPS monitor with excellent IQ and sharpness.  Jumping from CV1 VR to 4k 32" was just amazing for me.  The admittedly boring flat, yet sharp and clear 2D world looked so much better IMHO.  For me there was no point feeling like I was "in the cockpit", if I was a cateract suffering mugger with stockings over my head while wearing a scuba mask.

 

My CV1 broke out of warranty and not once did I think "how can I sim without it".

 

Despite having a rig that could easily handle SS at 2.0 this did not improve the clarity issue in any meaningful way.  After all the improved sharpness was almost totally rendered useless by the always present SDE.

 

Do not purchase a new PC just to run a Rift at SS 2.0.  You already have one that lets you easily test if it improves it to what you would deem acceptable.  Don't worry about FPS, all you want to see is how it affects the "clarity".  So crank SS to 2.0 and then even higher to see if it helps for you.

 

If you upgrade to Odyssey expect bout 30% improvement in sharpness and reduction of SDE comparerd to CV1

 

To put it another way, having experienced the moderate ~30% improvement with my Odyssey I marginally prefer using the Odyssey in BOK compared to my 4K monitor.  It is still not anywhere as clear but it is at least viable because the clarity has improved to acceptable levels.  At least IMHO but I would not for one second suggest you jump out and purchase an expensive HMD because it is not night and day improved over CV1.

 

EDIT:  I would advise that you only upgrade if you can get a refund for the CV1.

Edited January 30, 2018 by ICDP

[ICDP]

A screenshot is worth a thousand words.

 

CV1 vs Odyssey through the lens image in VR Job Simulator.  Bear in mind this is zoomed in so the SDE is exagerated on both.  I can see from this the Odyssey is improved by a noticeable amount.

Edited January 30, 2018 by ICDP

[WIS-Redcoat]

The Odyssey doesn’t work with this game and they have been silent on any sort of fix. Hopefully something soon

[Urra]

You will get the same resolution with a vive pro soon. And it should work unlike the odyssey. Same boat as you.

[chiliwili69]

 

 

Bought an i 7 8700

 

Hey! you forgot the K, your CPU is a i7-8700K    

[chiliwili69]

 

 

Jumping from CV1 VR to 4k 32" was just amazing for me.

 

This is not my case. Some years ago I bought the first 4K G-Sync 28" monitor and I have a great time until the VR support arrived to IL-2.

Since then, I have not used the 4K monitor to play IL-2.

I recognise that the resolution (and FOV somehow) is not perfect in the Rift, but since I am only SP I don´t have the need to be very competitive and enjoy the views. I am also quite insensitive to the SDE in all previous Oculus devices (DK1, DK2, CV1), so SDE is not a problem really for me.

 

I am also waiting (end of Q2 hopefully) for the Pimax 8K (I am a KS backer) which is giving a major step in res and FOV (in fact the step in FOV is bigger than desirable).

 

I think for the short term, the best thing to do is to wait for Vive Pro (March), read feedback and acquire one. It will be a long wait for 2nd gen from Oculus (more than 14 months from now)

 

In any case, at the end of the day, the important thing is your own subjective feeling. You can read many comments but there is nothing like testing it by yourself.

[ICDP]

The Odyssey doesn’t work with this game and they have been silent on any sort of fix. Hopefully something soon

 

I'm sorry to correct this but Odyssey does work, it just has an IPD issue that can be fixed with this tool.  Your post comes across as stating Odyssey doesn't work at all.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30556-3dmigoto-mod-vr/

This is not my case. Some years ago I bought the first 4K G-Sync 28" monitor and I have a great time until the VR support arrived to IL-2.

Since then, I have not used the 4K monitor to play IL-2.

I recognise that the resolution (and FOV somehow) is not perfect in the Rift, but since I am only SP I don´t have the need to be very competitive and enjoy the views. I am also quite insensitive to the SDE in all previous Oculus devices (DK1, DK2, CV1), so SDE is not a problem really for me.

 

I am also waiting (end of Q2 hopefully) for the Pimax 8K (I am a KS backer) which is giving a major step in res and FOV (in fact the step in FOV is bigger than desirable).

 

I think for the short term, the best thing to do is to wait for Vive Pro (March), read feedback and acquire one. It will be a long wait for 2nd gen from Oculus (more than 14 months from now)

 

In any case, at the end of the day, the important thing is your own subjective feeling. You can read many comments but there is nothing like testing it by yourself.

 

Each to their own but having owned a 28" 4k monitor it is just a bit too small.  Even an extra 4" makes a big difference to the immersion because it ironically takes up a only slightly smaller portion of your view than a restrictive VR scuba mask (er I mean HMD).  Obviously you lose the 3D depth perception but VR IQ has a massive way to go.

[ICDP]

You will get the same resolution with a vive pro soon. And it should work unlike the odyssey. Same boat as you.

 

Comparisons between both Vive Pro and Odyseey state the IQ is pretty much identical.  Vive Pro has the same lenses as Vive and will be very expensive comnpared to Odyssey.  Normal Vive will still be made and is priced at $599, so unless HTC reduce Vive price then the pro is going to be ~$799.  Odyssey costs $499, so I suspect Vive Pro will not compete on price.

 

Any issues with Odyssey are minor as Steam VR is still early access.  There is no release date for Vive Pro yet, so waiting a few months for a more expensive headset that delivers identical IQ for palying sit down dims is kinda pointless IMHO.

 

Just found this.  The screen on the left is reported to be a Vive, the right is from a Vive Pro/Odyssey.  From my experience in Elite Dangerous, Asetto Corsa, BOX and DCS, the Odyssey goes from illegible to useable for smallish text.  It;s not just about dials but contact are easier to resolve by a notiecable dgree.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ICDP

[dburne]

There are two VR devices currently, that work quite well for BoX. Rift and Vive. Plug them in, install the software, and off ya go.

I have now there is no telling how many hours combat flight simming in my Rift since getting it a little over a year ago. I fly with it practically on a daily basis.

 

Image Quality is certainly a big short coming for current generation VR. That is true of any current VR device.  That right there concerned me the most, when back in January of 17 I decided to not wait any longer and go ahead and order my Rift setup.  I am so glad I got it and did not wait any longer.

 

If my Rift were to go belly up anytime soon, I would order another without hesitation. Especially as they are so much less now than when I paid full price a year ago. 

 

However there are some exciting things on the horizon. First up the Vive Pro, basically a slightly updated Vive with better resolution, estimated to come out in March. 

Then we will also hopefully have some info on the next generation Rift later this year, either at the FB event in a couple of months, or Oculus Connect 5 later in the year. We know they are working on  some very exciting things, hopefully we will see a next gen Rift sometime in 2019.

Then we also have the Pimax 8K that is in development and will be coming at least for the Kickstarters at some point this year. Some large promises especially on resolution and FOV. They are definitely trying to push the edge of the envelope for VR, which will be good for VR overall as well.

 

So back to the OP of the thread, you mention you have been doing this about a week. I would give it a little longer and see how you feel before jumping onto something else. Chances are you will still be somewhat disappointed, the only question will the disappointment spoil your enjoyment for you, or will the immersion grab you to where you hardly notice the disappointing factors any longer...

I my case, I was somewhat disappointed at the very beginning when I started using my Rift but fairly quickly the immersion literally took over and ever since I have had a big smile on my face flying my missions.  But at the same time, there are a few that just can not get adjusted to the quality of the image.

 

I would also mention though - I am a Single Player guy, and have no trouble using labels when needed. I mainly like to fly campaigns, both scripted and PWCG. I am having an absolute blast with them. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by dburne

[kaboki]

I have used a Rift CV1, Lenovo Explorer WMR and now an Odyssey WMR.

 

Resolution and clarity is improved on Odyssey compared to CV1 by around 30%.  77% increase in resolution gives around 30% higher PPI and since both CV1 have ~90mm screen and 110deg FOV the PPD (pixels per degree) is overall around 30% better.

 

Rift does have slightly better sweetspot but that is the only area it has actual IQ advantage.  Inside out tracking for sims and even roomscale has given me very few problems.

 

Like you I loved CV1 at first but just stopped using in BOS after maybe a few weeks because it was utterly useless for anything but some sight seeing.  Even then it was as long as you could put up with horrendous IQ.  It doesn't help that I have a 4K 32" IPS monitor with excellent IQ and sharpness.  Jumping from CV1 VR to 4k 32" was just amazing for me.  The admittedly boring flat, yet sharp and clear 2D world looked so much better IMHO.  For me there was no point feeling like I was "in the cockpit", if I was a cateract suffering mugger with stockings over my head while wearing a scuba mask.

 

My CV1 broke out of warranty and not once did I think "how can I sim without it".

 

Despite having a rig that could easily handle SS at 2.0 this did not improve the clarity issue in any meaningful way.  After all the improved sharpness was almost totally rendered useless by the always present SDE.

 

Do not purchase a new PC just to run a Rift at SS 2.0.  You already have one that lets you easily test if it improves it to what you would deem acceptable.  Don't worry about FPS, all you want to see is how it affects the "clarity".  So crank SS to 2.0 and then even higher to see if it helps for you.

 

If you upgrade to Odyssey expect bout 30% improvement in sharpness and reduction of SDE comparerd to CV1

 

To put it another way, having experienced the moderate ~30% improvement with my Odyssey I marginally prefer using the Odyssey in BOK compared to my 4K monitor.  It is still not anywhere as clear but it is at least viable because the clarity has improved to acceptable levels.  At least IMHO but I would not for one second suggest you jump out and purchase an expensive HMD because it is not night and day improved over CV1.

 

EDIT:  I would advise that you only upgrade if you can get a refund for the CV1.

 

 

Thanks for your insight, 30% imrovement sounds good to me. I wont get a refund on the CV1 but I have a friend intrested in buying it from me if I get the oddysey so I atleast get some of my money back. From what you describe I think I'll go for it, Im just hooked on VR and I want the best available right now. When the pimax gets released I probably buy that too:p.

 

 

So back to the OP of the thread, you mention you have been doing this about a week. I would give it a little longer and see how you feel before jumping onto something else. Chances are you will still be somewhat disappointed, the only question will the disappointment spoil your enjoyment for you, or will the immersion grab you to where you hardly notice the disappointing factors any longer...

I my case, I was somewhat disappointed at the very beginning when I started using my Rift but fairly quickly the immersion literally took over and ever since I have had a big smile on my face flying my missions.  But at the same time, there are a few that just can not get adjusted to the quality of the image.

 

I would also mention though - I am a Single Player guy, and have no trouble using labels when needed. I mainly like to fly campaigns, both scripted and PWCG. I am having an absolute blast with them. 

 

the guy above already sold me, 30% imrovement sounds good to me, maybe It help with reading the cockpit instruments sligtly better. Money is no problem, I have plenty of it to waste:p.

 

Thanks you all for your replys, apriciated:)

Edited January 31, 2018 by kaboki

[SCG_motoadve]

Hey! you forgot the K, your CPU is a i7-8700K    

 

 

[dburne]

 

the guy above already sold me, 30% imrovement sounds good to me, maybe It help with reading the cockpit instruments sligtly better. Money is no problem, I have plenty of it to waste:p.

 

Thanks you all for your replys, apriciated:)

 

No problem, you are most welcome.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it. Just not much feedback on those WMR devices in flight sims yet.

Edited January 31, 2018 by dburne

[SCG_motoadve]

Thanks for your insight, 30% imrovement sounds good to me. I wont get a refund on the CV1 but I have a friend intrested in buying it from me if I get the oddysey so I atleast get some of my money back. From what you describe I think I'll go for it, Im just hooked on VR and I want the best available right now. When the pimax gets released I probably buy that too:p.

 

 

 

the guy above already sold me, 30% imrovement sounds good to me, maybe It help with reading the cockpit instruments sligtly better. Money is no problem, I have plenty of it to waste:p.

 

Thanks you all for your replys, apriciated:)

 

Please post your experience when you get the Samsung compared to the Rift, I am very interested to hear it.

[JG27*Kornezov]

Guys don't you get the nausea when engaging in rolling scissors fights? I imagine for sight seeing is awesome as you see the things in their real size. 3D monitor even if you still have the 3D perspective is not the same thing.

Edited January 31, 2018 by JG27_Kornezov

[OrLoK]

Please post your experience when you get the Samsung compared to the Rift, I am very interested to hear it.

 ditto.

 

Guys don't you get the nausea when engaging in rolling scissor fights? I imagine for sight seeing is awesome as you see the things in their real size. 3D monitor even if you still have the 3D perspective is not the same thing.

 Not I, but Ive found my VR legs.

 

WT gave me terribad nausea. YMMV

[kaboki]

Please post your experience when you get the Samsung compared to the Rift, I am very interested to hear it.

 

Sure, Just ordered, have it in 1 week then I will post my expirience. Paid 800 dollars for it, hope i didnt mess up:p. Could have waited for the vive pro, but my guess is its gonna cost more than 1000 dollars when it get to Norway, vr is really expensive here...

[BFsSmurfy]

For me there was no point feeling like I was "in the cockpit", if I was a cateract suffering mugger with stockings over my head while wearing a scuba mask.

 

That is awesome statement, that`s made my day.

[OrLoK]

For me there was no point feeling like I was "in the cockpit", if I was a cateract suffering mugger with stockings over my head while wearing a scuba mask.

 

That is awesome statement, that`s made my day.

its weird though, that I prefer it

[dburne]

its weird though, that I prefer it

 

I would not have it any other way! Been doing it over a year now, and still can not get enough.

Edited January 31, 2018 by dburne

[ICDP]

Of course, each to their own.  At least here on this forum we can discuss our personal preferences without being attacked.  I received a lot of attacks on another forum when I dared state that I owned a CV1 and rarely used it, because IMHO it had horrible IQ I couldn't ignore.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ICDP

[SCG_motoadve]

ICDP , does the Samsung has AWS, prop artifacts? and can be ran at 90FPS and also at 45FPS option?

And since it has higher resolution, does it requires a more powerful video card?

[ClarkFable]

I own both. Right now IL2 is broken for Odyssey because of scaling issues.  In general the Odyssey has noticeably better resolution in every compatible app I have tried. Also, and more important for VR (IMO), it has a much better contrast ratio. 

 

That being said, performance may an issue even if they make all the fixes to the scaling issues. My setup can barely run the Oculus in large fights on Wings of Liberty as is. Adding 75% more pixels will degrade performance even more. Although the availability of 30 and 60fps refreshes refresh rates might mitigate this somewhat. 

[A_radek]

Of course, each to their own. At least here on this forum we can discuss our personal preferences without being attacked. I received a lot of attacks on another forum when I dared state that I owned a CV1 and rarely used it, because IMHO it had horrible IQ I couldn't ignore.

 

I find this section of the forum more relaxed than the others. A lack of sides, stats, knowledge battles and heated bias discussions certainly matters. Here we all just help newcomers, share mods or discuss settings. All this under the umbrella of a mutual preference for VR.. Utopia really.. and then you came along..

 

Of all the friends/relatives and others that tested VR at my place I'd say about 5% were so excited they drove to the nearest computer store the same day. 90% said: "Wow I never imagined it was like this! It's amazing!" (but not amazing enough to invest in a headset). 5% including a childhood friend of mines reaction was: "cool, but can you crank up the resolution please? I can see the pixels"

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

The only time I dont use my VR is when I'm doing extended time in the ju88. That thing murders my frame rate for some reason.

 

With the zoom mod, it's been glorious having the ability to be aggressive again.

[WIS-Redcoat]

I'm sorry to correct this but Odyssey does work, it just has an IPD issue that can be fixed with this tool.  Your post comes across as stating Odyssey doesn't work at all.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30556-3dmigoto-mod-vr/

 

 

I knew people thought the MOD worked, but it was suggested it was still "off" so I assumed it wasn't a real fix.  I also followed up to ask what IPD setting people were using and the thread went dead, thus leading me to believe it wasn't working right.  

 

Do you have advice on what setting to change it to?

[ICDP]

I love the feeling of VR, it is why I have owned a DK2, a CV1, a Lenovo Explorer and now a Samsung Odyssey.  I am also patiently waiting for my Pimax 8K to get here when they are released :D

I knew people thought the MOD worked, but it was suggested it was still "off" so I assumed it wasn't a real fix.  I also followed up to ask what IPD setting people were using and the thread went dead, thus leading me to believe it wasn't working right.  

 

Do you have advice on what setting to change it to?

 

It's not perfect, it basically shifts they separate eye images closer together.  This drastically improved the sense of the scale being off for me.  I left the settings on default.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ICDP

[dburne]

The only time I dont use my VR is when I'm doing extended time in the ju88. That thing murders my frame rate for some reason.

 

With the zoom mod, it's been glorious having the ability to be aggressive again.

 

There is a time you do not use VR??

 

Blasphemy I tell you!!

 

For me, a day without my Rift would definitely be a gloomy day indeed! Or even a flight without it.

[ICDP]

ICDP , does the Samsung has AWS, prop artifacts? and can be ran at 90FPS and also at 45FPS option?

And since it has higher resolution, does it requires a more powerful video card?

 

Yes it has ASW equivelant via Steam VR, I see no prop artifacts and it will run at 45 FPS using the asynchronous reporjection (or whatever it's called).  Thought he beefy PC part isn't as drastic because I can use 1.5 SS in SteamVR settings instead of 2.0.  Even at the lower SS it is sharper and clearer than CV1

 

I have a Vega 64 with a ~10% overclock and I am getting 45+fps with grass on low, high preset, MSAA on, HDR and ambient occlusion off.

Edited January 31, 2018 by ICDP

[SCG_motoadve]

Yes it has ASW equivelant via Steam VR, I see no prop artifacts and it will run at 45 FPS using the asynchronous reporjection (or whatever it's called).  Thought he beefy PC part isn't as drastic because I can use 1.5 SS in SteamVR settings instead of 2.0.  Even at the lower SS it is sharper and clearer than CV1

 

I have a Vega 64 with a ~10% overclock and I am getting 45+fps with grass on low, high preset, MSAA on, HDR and ambient occlusion off

 

I wish they fix the IPD problem, wouldn't enjoy as much being off scale.

Is this something the IL2 Bos game developer needs to do?

 or Samsung? any chance a third party app corrects this for good?

[kaboki]

Anyone know if this IPD problem with Odyssey also happens in DCS World?

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

There is a time you do not use VR??

 

Blasphemy I tell you!!

 

For me, a day without my Rift would definitely be a gloomy day indeed! Or even a flight without it.

Watching tracks I use 4k screen. Some times i have a headache and I don't feel like doning it, so trackIR & 4k.

[ICDP]

Anyone know if this IPD problem with Odyssey also happens in DCS World?

 

I just had a flight around the new DCS 2.5 beta in a MiG15 and it was perfeclty fine.  The only game I see this issue is BOS.

I logged a support ticket and got some feedback from the support guys but they simply stopped responding.  I can't see it being a problem for anyone but the devs, if it wasn't then all other games would be affected.

 

Like I said I can mitigate the issue almost entirely with the app I linked to earlier.

 

When the game loads into the mission, press Left ALT and Left Arrow, IPD problem gone.

[dburne]

Watching tracks I use 4k screen. Some times i have a headache and I don't feel like doning it, so trackIR & 4k.

 

Nothing wrong with that, my Track IR has long since been stored away.

I just had a flight around the new DCS 2.5 beta in a MiG15 and it was perfeclty fine.  The only game I see this issue is BOS.

 

 

That is certainly interesting, what kind of performance are you seeing in 2.5 with the Odyssey? Have not seen much about it over on their forums. What little I have has appeared to be somewhat problematic.

I know 2.5 is pretty demanding on VR ( based on my experience today), even for the Rift. I would think would even be more demanding on the Odyssey.

 

Also of note they added an IPD adjustment to the VR settings menu.

Edited January 31, 2018 by dburne