Picchio Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 This could be fun. I'm on the fence regarding the acquisition of the Gunfighter to replace my glorious CH Fighterstick. Ideally, I also would try to sell all of my CH units so that I just keep a basic desktop HOTAS setup. This means adding VKB pedals and a throttle in the future, whenever it becomes available. So, this is where you guys come. Convince me! Is the Gunfighter a worthy successor? Are the pedals really that better? Or dissuade me! Do your best!
=EXPEND=Tripwire Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 I own a Gunfighter Pro with MCG Pro, and I love it. Can't talk you out of that. Its a lot of $$ though, but hopefully It will serve me for many years to come. For the pedals though, the VKB pedals lack toe brakes and that is a deal breaker for me. I use MFG Crosswinds and cant fault them.
Matt Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 Only thing i would suggest, is that you should probably consider the Gladiator Pro with MCG. It's cheaper and owning both the Gladiator as well as the Gunfighter, i don't see much to justify the additional price of the Gunfighter, unless you need the slimmer base (center stick mount for instance). The throttle lever on the Gladiator could also suffice for the time until the VKB throttle becomes avaliable. I also have the VKB pedals, which are perfect for my use, which is using a office chair and storing the pedals in one of my desks drawers when i don't need them. The action is perfectly smooth and the lack of toe brakes is of no concern for me, because i prefer to use the brake lever on the MCG anyway. So i basically own all of their current product line and i would recommend every product currently avaliable from VKB. I have no comparison with CH, but i couldn't imagine anything the CH products could do better. I'll also order the VKB throttle quadrant, when it becomes avaliable.
PatrickAWlson Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 I just did that (CH Combat Stick to VKB). My Gunfighter is a simple desktop version. As pointed out, the VKB costs but I am very happy with it. The precision and feel is IMHO a major upgrade over the CH (costs 3x as much so it damned well better be ). Stiffer, more precise, and I love the way the required force increases as you reach the edge of motion.
Sokol1 Posted January 26, 2018 Posted January 26, 2018 (edited) Only thing i would suggest, is that you should probably consider the Gladiator Pro with MCG. Other point relative to opt for Gladiator PRO for desktop use is that for BoS and similar WW2 games don't need MCG PRO, MCG "vanilla" fit perfectly and cost $90... 70 less. About brakes, no one aircraft in BoS require "toe brakes" exclusively, all can use "differential brakes" - for what MCG brake lever + T-Rudder is perfectly. Edited January 28, 2018 by Sokol1
1CGS LukeFF Posted January 27, 2018 1CGS Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Other point relative to opt for Gladiator PRO for desktop use is that for BoS and similar WW2 games don't need MCG PRO, MCG "vanilla" fit perfectly and cost $90 less. Sure, if you don't want to have a lot of buttons and don't mind using the keyboard a lot. With the MCG Pro plus the GVL 224 throttle, I can map all of the keystrokes I want, with ~4-5 buttons to spare. Edited January 27, 2018 by LukeFF
Picchio Posted January 27, 2018 Author Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks for the feedback, everyone. One question, does anybody know if the Gunfighter sold by AliExpress is the Mk. II (Rev. B)? Can't find any spec in the store's page.
Matt Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 As long as you buy from the official store, it's Mk.II. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/3023007?spm=2114.10010108.100005.1.1f9465dc2pSjsY But it looks like they currently only have the one with Russian text on it.
A_radek Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 I just did that (CH Combat Stick to VKB). My Gunfighter is a simple desktop version. As pointed out, the VKB costs but I am very happy with it. The precision and feel is IMHO a major upgrade over the CH (costs 3x as much so it damned well better be ). Stiffer, more precise, and I love the way the required force increases as you reach the edge of motion. Good to hear this from someone who's used a Ch stick. I'm also a CH user. And while glancing towards these newer sticks, I really like my CH. Center deadzone could be smaller, modern sensors rather than old pots would be nice and the CH does look like a piece of 90's plastic. Tried a warthog briefly and though I could get used to it, it wasn't really all that amazing in comparison. Disliked that feeling of a soft "edge" you have to yank through to get out from center, perhaps this is something you adjust? Looked really nice though. Are the vkb sticks simillar in feel to the thrust master warthog? Would love to hear what other ex-CH users moved on to and how they found it. After 10 years of duty my fighter stick could use a rest.
Archie Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 Would love to hear what other ex-CH users moved on to and how they found it. After 10 years of duty my fighter stick could use a rest. I moved on from a Fighterstick I had used for over 10 years to a VPC Mongoose. I thought the CH stick was good, but these new sticks (VKB/VPC/Baur) with metal gimbals are in a whole different class.
Sokol1 Posted January 28, 2018 Posted January 28, 2018 Are the vkb sticks simillar in feel to the thrust master warthog? VKV/VPC CAM gimbal are more close to CH gimbal - with 2 individual spring in each axes than the gimbal of Warthog (and Saitek) in what the unique spring mix the force in any direction. What you don't have in CAM gimbal - or at least have very subtle is the pronounced audible and tactile "clunck" when crossing center position in CH gimbals. In matter of force needed for move the grip - low in CH sticks, this is customizable in CAM gimbal, you can set soft or hard.
A_radek Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 Thanks guys. Reassuring and I think I'll give the vkb an expensive try. Reading the instructions, is that pinky finger (down low, front of grip) recognized as a regular button in Windows? I'm not too fond of shift functionality and would like to keep using it for center head function.
=EXPEND=Tripwire Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 You could program it as either. By default it is a separate button (not a shift function). I currently map it to PTT in teamspeak. Its one button that I want to be able to press whilst not interrupting any other ability. 1
A_radek Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 You could program it as either. By default it is a separate button (not a shift function). I currently map it to PTT in teamspeak. Its one button that I want to be able to press whilst not interrupting any other ability. Thank you Trip
TWC_Ace Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) I will talk you out. Although VKB is making the best sticks on the market (precise, durable, cool looking, smooth) ergonomics is terrible. It all started with Cobra and Mamba. It is a bit better with KG12 like grip on Gladiator but its still bad. Glad itself is a bit too big for average sized hand, you really cant rest your thumb comfortably....but ofcourse its a "WW2 style" joystick which is well built and precise, cool looking.... The best stick erogonomicaly wise would be T16000M and Sidewinders....they dont look cool and arent in the Gladiator league but..... On contrary VKB Gunfigher is pretty good ergonomicaly and is a bit "modern look" but also very very good in all aspects....and costs... Edited January 29, 2018 by blackram
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) I will talk you out. Although VKB is making the best sticks on the market (precise, durable, cool looking, smooth) ergonomics is terrible. It all started with Cobra and Mamba. It is a bit better with KG12 like grip on Gladiator but its still bad. Glad itself is a bit too big for average sized hand, you really cant rest your thumb comfortably....but ofcourse its a "WW2 style" joystick which is well built and precise, cool looking.... The best stick erogonomicaly wise would be T16000M and Sidewinders....they dont look cool and arent in the Gladiator league but..... On contrary VKB Gunfigher is pretty good ergonomicaly and is a bit "modern look" but also very very good in all aspects....and costs... Yes, you are right about great ergonomic of T16000M and MS SW but recently I switched to VPC Mongoos T-50 and I find it not bad but good enough compared to those two. Edited January 29, 2018 by 307_Tomcat
TWC_Ace Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) The T-50 grip (stick itself) is very simmilar to one on Gunfighter isnt it? Edited January 29, 2018 by blackram
Sokol1 Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 The T-50 grip (stick itself) is very simmilar to one on Gunfighter isnt it? Because both grips - T-50 and MCG are based on prototypes made by OKB Aviaavtomatika for the grip of PaK-50/Su-57. See there: http://www.aviaavtomatika.com/production/018/ VKB version opt for a different palm rest (based in F-35 grip) reducing the grip height to maintain desktop use compatibility.
Archie Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 Also the VKB has a (I think) hat button for the thumb where the Virpil has a button.
dburne Posted January 29, 2018 Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) Also the VKB has a (I think) hat button for the thumb where the Virpil has a button. The MCG Pro grip has a four way hat + push button for thumb, also a user swappable push button. The regular MCG grip I believe has just the push button for thumb button, like the Virpil offering. Comparison of MCG grips: https://vkbcontrollers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MCG-Announce-Final-1.jpg Edited January 29, 2018 by dburne 1
ram0506 Posted February 3, 2018 Posted February 3, 2018 Thanks for the feedback, everyone. One question, does anybody know if the Gunfighter sold by AliExpress is the Mk. II (Rev. B)? Can't find any spec in the store's page. Sorry for being late to the party, just found this topic. I ordered the Gunfighter MCG Pro from AliExpress and yes, it`s a Mk. II. Btw. shipping was surprisingly fast. I ordered last Saturday, on Monday I got a confirmation and processing mail of the order, shipping started on Tuesday and two!! days later it already arrived in Germany (shipping from China by DHL express). Stick cost me a fortune. 325 Euro + 54 shipping + 95 VAT and customs. But also AliExpress is out of stock at the moment as far as I can see. Precision of the Gunfighter seems to be unmatched but at the moment I´m not totally positive about it. Coming from the Warthog the Gunfighter MCG seems more like a toy. The feeling when pressing the buttons was much better with the Warthog. And I´m still struggling with the strength of the springs. Even changing to the strongest springs is still not enough for my taste. Will try with a second pair of springs and also change the cam profile to the one with more resistance at the center position. Fortunately I`m using the Gunfighter with no extension, can`t really imagine how one uses the stick with an extension (or the Warthog grip) with those springs. Maybe for helicopter flying?
dburne Posted February 3, 2018 Posted February 3, 2018 Sorry for being late to the party, just found this topic. I ordered the Gunfighter MCG Pro from AliExpress and yes, it`s a Mk. II. Btw. shipping was surprisingly fast. I ordered last Saturday, on Monday I got a confirmation and processing mail of the order, shipping started on Tuesday and two!! days later it already arrived in Germany (shipping from China by DHL express). Stick cost me a fortune. 325 Euro + 54 shipping + 95 VAT and customs. But also AliExpress is out of stock at the moment as far as I can see. Precision of the Gunfighter seems to be unmatched but at the moment I´m not totally positive about it. Coming from the Warthog the Gunfighter MCG seems more like a toy. The feeling when pressing the buttons was much better with the Warthog. And I´m still struggling with the strength of the springs. Even changing to the strongest springs is still not enough for my taste. Will try with a second pair of springs and also change the cam profile to the one with more resistance at the center position. Fortunately I`m using the Gunfighter with no extension, can`t really imagine how one uses the stick with an extension (or the Warthog grip) with those springs. Maybe for helicopter flying? Well if I am ever able to order a MCG Pro grip here in NA I will be glad to share how it is with the extension... 1
Sokol1 Posted February 4, 2018 Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) And I´m still struggling with the strength of the springs. Even changing to the strongest springs is still not enough for my taste. Will try with a second pair of springs and also change the cam profile to the one with more resistance at the center position. Fortunately I`m using the Gunfighter with no extension, can`t really imagine how one uses the stick with an extension (or the Warthog grip) with those springs. Maybe for helicopter flying? VKB CAM profiles is made for less resistance around center. We always stated that the Gunfigher (and before them Mamba) use a nonlinear "quadratic" loading system. Here is the loading schedule: We have been doing research for a long time and carefully, we have chosen a nonlinear load specially, since the pilot receives information not only on the position of the stick, but also on the effort on it. Also, the soft behavior of the stick in the center makes control in the near-center zone more convenient. I'm not saying that this statement is categorical, and who does not agree with him, he does not understand anything in the joysticks But still most of the users of our products (and this is not one thousand people) preferred nonlinear loading and not "extreme" efforts on the grip. The above is answer to this VPC x VKB user "fell" comparative - not made in ideal conditions with same extension length https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26939-announcing-project-vpc-mongoost-50/page-12?do=findComment&comment=567304 Edited February 4, 2018 by Sokol1
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