VKB Gladiator mk II (non pro) vs Microsoft FF2

[ITAF_Rani]

Wich one is more acurate in your opinion and better in general?

 

Many txs

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I recently bought high end joystick but is nothing like MSFF2...

[Sokol1]

VKB of course, is 12 bits (4096 resolution points), managed by a ARM 32 processor against 10 bits (1024 resolution points) and a old (~2000) processor,

besides that VKB MaRS sensor  is less subject at "noise"/spikes than the pot used in FFB2, despite their very good quality (probable Panasonic pot rated to 10M cycles).

 

This is the technical part, then different users has different "feel" about.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Sokol1

[Tuesday]

Does the MSFFB Pro (not FFB2) have optical sensors?

[Sokol1]

MS FFB PRO - gameport (and some last units with gameport to USB Adapter) use optical sensor, don't remember what is the resolution of this version, probable 8 or 9 bits.

 

MS FFB 2 USB  use potentiometer.

[Tuesday]

On the box is says 16 bits.  I don't think mine has USB support on the board so I will have to build a converter.  Unfortunately all the info out there is pretty old, now!

[Sokol1]

On the box is says 16 bits.  I don't think mine has USB support on the board so I will have to build a converter.  Unfortunately all the info out there is pretty old, now!

 

 

Yes this MS FFB PRO USB adapter cable depends on support in controller/firmware and came only in few last units of this model.

I already test this cable with early MS FFB PRO and don't work.

 

You can easily convert for USB with Tensy 2.0 and a specific firmware, the pages that used host this is almost gone, but other day looking a Reddit I see a post in what the guy point where get the scheme and the code - he did some personalization in code, now stik is showed as "Force Feedback PRO" in Windows and have additional axis and buttons: 6 axis, 32 buttons.

 

I have one MSFFB PRO there - I bough for a teenage nephew when he briefly demonstrated interest in IL-2:46, but as he grow up was definitively "lost" for "fast food" games...  

 

Have too a Teensy, but always postpone thy this conversion - I really don' of joy FFB.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HotasDIY/comments/7583z4/ms_sidewinder_ff_pro_usb_conversion_and_mods/

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1307787

 

He cut the DB 15 cable out, fit Teensy inside FFB PRO base and hook the wires from cut cable direct in the Teensy.

[Tuesday]

Yes this MS FFB PRO USB adapter cable depends on support in controller/firmware and came only in few last units of this model.

I already test this cable with early MS FFB PRO and don't work.

 

You can easily convert for USB with Tensy 2.0 and a specific firmware, the pages that used host this is almost gone, but other day looking a Reddit I see a post in what the guy point where get the scheme and the code - he did some personalization in code, now stik is showed as "Force Feedback PRO" in Windows and have additional axis and buttons: 6 axis, 32 buttons.

 

I have one MSFFB PRO there - I bough for a teenage nephew when he briefly demonstrated interest in IL-2:46, but as he grow up was definitively "lost" for "fast food" games...

 

Have too a Teensy, but always postpone thy this conversion - I really don' of joy FFB.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HotasDIY/comments/7583z4/ms_sidewinder_ff_pro_usb_conversion_and_mods/

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1307787

 

He cut the DB 15 cable out, fit Teensy inside FFB PRO base and hook the wires from cut cable direct in the Teensy.

 

Thanks Sokol.  I started looking at the cost of all the parts & shipping, and it will end up costing me 3x what people are selling completed ones for

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I have 3 MSFF among one FF Pro with gameport to USB converter and FF effects are working fine. BTW I bought Pro in original package never used

[Norz]

On 24.1.2018 at 4:52 PM, 307_Tomcat said:

I recently bought high end joystick but is nothing like MSFF2...

 

Don't undersnand. Can you explain?

 

I used Microsoft FF2 last 12 months and now just thinking about some upgrade. Is VKB Gladiator PRO better than MS FF2 or not?

[JG7_X-Man]

I don't think they are comparable at all! One has force feedback and one doesn't. 

You will not feel a thing with a non force feedback joystick. 

 

Like power steering and non power steering LOL -  or like an Apple and an Orange. If you are hungry both will do the job, but not the same in the least other then they are both fruit.

 

Now that said, I ordered Gametrix JetSeat KW-908 Air w/ Andre's Mod. I think I could replace (...not upgrade because although the MS FFB 2 is old, it's still in a class of its own) because I mount my HOTAS ( X-55 RHINO throttle) on my chair. I will get force feedback from the chair which will make my HOTAS vibrate as well. Now I can get a stick with more buttons, like the VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro.

Edited March 8, 2018 by JG7_X_Man

[klebor]

I don't understand a thing. So 15 years ago casual Microsoft was producing fully functional, cheap, force feedback joysticks which are used until today.

 

And today extremally dedicated teams of passionate people - like Virpil, Baur, VKB are producing 5 times more expensive sticks with uncompromised quality and electronics and they don't include such an old FF technology in their very customisable metal gimbals. And many people still prefer to use extremally cheap old sticks because of FF...

 

Why? What is the reason?

Edited March 13, 2018 by sereme1

[TWC_Ace]

13 minutes ago, sereme1 said:

I don't understand a thing. So 15 years ago casual Microsoft was producing fully functional, cheap, force feedback joysticks which are used until today.

 

And today extremally dedicated teams of passionate people - like Virpil, Baur, VKB are producing 5 times more expensive sticks with uncompromised quality and electronics and they don't include such an old FF technology in their very customisable metal gimbals. And many people still prefer to use extremally cheap old sticks because of FF...

 

Why? What is the reason?

Probably it isnt an easy task to do as one would think.

 

btw, maybe I would be lucky in this topic and will get an answer from a good fellow pilots who own non pro Gladiator. Do you have a "free play" around yaw axis (when using twist function)? I have some freeplay on pitch and roll but that is normal but what about yaw...

[Dakpilot]

1 hour ago, sereme1 said:

I don't understand a thing. So 15 years ago casual Microsoft was producing fully functional, cheap, force feedback joysticks which are used until today.

 

And today extremally dedicated teams of passionate people - like Virpil, Baur, VKB are producing 5 times more expensive sticks with uncompromised quality and electronics and they don't include such an old FF technology in their very customisable metal gimbals. And many people still prefer to use extremally cheap old sticks because of FF...

 

Why? What is the reason?

 

The MSFFB2 was a (comparatively) very high quality product when MS were doing hardware quite well, a patent infringement battle which also effected Sony was brought by Immersion , Sony fought in court and lost US$ 90.7 million, MS settled out of court and 'invested' in Immersion

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony

 

after this companies were wary about FFB joysticks and there were many more wrangles with copyright/console rights etc. with FFB wheels due to royalty issues

 

proper FFB (almost essential on racing games) has been absent in flightsims except for Logitech G940 (spoiled by poor quality control issues) due to high royalties and possible backlash/sour taste due to more niche market and fall in popularity of Flight sims from glory days

 

So blame Shyster lawyers and maybe MS and Sony for 'cutting corners' for lack of mainstream FFB

 

my knowledge of the subject is not great so apologise if I got some things wrong, but surely any time now the patents must be running out?

 

FFB development/support has not really progressed in Flight Sims/games due to lack of hardware, unlike racing games where it is at a high level

 

It is surely time that an affordable mainstream FFB stick was available, flight sims are truly the backward cousin of Racing Sims in this aspect

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

 

[Sokol1]

3 hours ago, sereme1 said:

I don't understand a thing. So 15 years ago casual Microsoft was producing fully functional, cheap,

 

MS FFB2 are not properly "cheap" at time. Today a hight quality FFB joystick probable will cost above $1.000

 

E.g. CLS-E ForceFeedback base for custon their grips (B-8'ish, A320) or Warthog/Cougar, MongoosT50 grips.

 

https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-joystick/

https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/produkt-uebersicht/

 

BTW - Due need of custom API - don't use DirectImput ForceFeedback API (maybe due the patents issue), has supported only for FSX/Prepar3D/XP11.

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Sokol1