Good mid-range joystick for IL-2

[Sporally]

Hi

 

 

I bought IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad on sale on Steam a few months ago.

 

I borrowed a joystick from my father, but it was quite old and didn't work with IL-2. After been reading up on it I found out that this particular joystick didn't work for IL-2 and there was obviously no simple solution to it.

 

So now - after some months since purchase - I still haven't played IL-2 as I decided to get a good experience with a joystick from the get go.

 

So I'm looking for a joystick - not low- or high-range but mid-range pricewise. I'm a casual gamer, but taking my gaming serious and want a good experience with a good joystick. I've been watching a few videos on YouTube, but found them not very informing.

 

Could you please suggest some mid-range joysticks I would get a good IL-2 experience with that will work many years from not?

 

Don't know it matters, but I bought IL-2 because I want it to be one of my first VR-game for when I maybe later this year will buy myself a VR-headset. Furthermore, I have low to medium experience (or let's call it medium experience) with flight simulator games, but like realism in my flight simulator games.

 

Thank a lot for your help in advance.

[Bombzey]

There is only one performance option for the mid price bracket and that's the Thrustmaster T.16000M

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrustmaster-T-16000M-FCS-Joystick-PC/dp/B01H6KXGEI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1516793172&sr=8-2&keywords=thrustmaster+t.16000m

 

[=X51=VC_]

T.16000M, top choice. Also IL2 with VR is awesome.

[Tapi]

I would recommend RAVCORE JAVELLIN https://www.ravcore.com/produkty/javelin/

"Light" version of VKB Gladiator from Poland. Quality built.

Video review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MEqPvlThnE&t=2s

[sinned]

Highly recommend vkb gladiator and vr. If budget allows, you can get a pedal. Pedal makes you feel the plane and fly with body, not wrist.

[Finkeren]

I recently bought a VKB Gladiator Mk. 2. Very happy with it so far. It is slightly more expensive than the T.16000M but IMHO you do get a smoother and more accurate stick.

[Lensman]

Get a good condition Microsoft Force Feedback Sidewinder 2 from Ebay if any are available. This sim is greatly improved by force feedback and when you're holding an aircraft on the edge of a stall you will thank me.

[Wolfram-Harms]

I would recommend RAVCORE JAVELLIN https://www.ravcore.com/produkty/javelin/

 

Wow, never seen this stick before! Looking like a solid, good stick for the price sector!

Thank you for the info and video, tapi !

 

PS: their website doesn't work well for me - when I click on the link and change to ENGLISH by pressing EN above,

then I get lots of crapp, but not the stick anymore.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Wolfram-Harms

[ShamrockOneFive]

Another vote for the VKB Gladiator. This is my review on that particular stick (I have the Mark I): https://stormbirds.blog/2016/12/11/%ef%bb%bfreview-vkb-gladiator/

 

It's an absolutely precise stick, it needs no drivers (everything is done on the chip located in the stick), and so far it's held up incredibly well.

[Tapi]

Wow, never seen this stick before! Looking like a solid, good stick for the price sector!

Thank you for the info and video, tapi !

I have been using it for about 1 year and I am absolutely satisfied (for the price vs quality).

Though there is not metal gimbal with cams like in the case of the original VKB Gladiator Mk.II (there is the plastic gimbal with springs), the centering is very good and precise.

[Tapi]

PS: their website doesn't work well for me - when I click on the link and change to ENGLISH by pressing EN above,

then I get lots of crapp, but not the stick anymore.

 

I checked eshops briefly and it seems Javelin is available mainly in the eastern Europe. But I have found it is also available from amazon.co.uk: https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVCORE-C0521237-Ravcore-Jevelin/dp/B01LYHNLYM/ref=lp_11650861031_1_2?srs=11650861031&ie=UTF8&qid=1516798237&sr=8-2

[Ribbon]

How much money do you consider mid range joystick?

These are my recommendations;

 

Best cheap; vkb gladiator mk.2, t16000m

 

Best mid-range:thrustmaster warthog

 

Best high end:vkb gunfighter, vkb gladiator pro mk.2, virpil joysticks

 

Good luck!

[ShamrockOneFive]

How much money do you consider mid range joystick?

These are my recommendations;

 

Best cheap; vkb gladiator mk.2, t16000m

 

Best mid-range:thrustmaster warthog

 

Best high end:vkb gunfighter, vkb gladiator pro mk.2, virpil joysticks

 

Good luck!

 

Are you using money as the definition for range? The Gladiator Pro Mk 2 is substantially cheaper than the Warthog

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Gladiator or T16000m - hands down.

[Ribbon]

Are you using money as the definition for range? The Gladiator Pro Mk 2 is substantially cheaper than the Warthog

I was focused mainly on build quality while also taking in consideration price range.

Also i would recommend Gunfighter to anyone, it is perfect!

 

Edit: there is difference between gladiator pro and gladiator(metal vs.plastic), price differece between wathog and gladiator pro are cos warthog goes with throttle system while gladiator pro mk2 is standalone joystick.

-Gladiator pro mk2 250-300€ - joystick only (it has same gimbal as gunfighter)

-Warthog 350€- joystick+throttle (hotas)

Edited January 24, 2018 by EAF_Ribbon

[ShamrockOneFive]

I was focused mainly on build quality while also taking in consideration price range.

Also i would recommend Gunfighter to anyone, it is perfect!

 

That does make sense. I haven't tried the Gunfighter but I hear it's great!

 

I'm considering an upgrade from the Gladiator to the Gunfighter with twist and the MCG or MCG Pro. But first, I really want that new TECS throttle whenever that comes out.

[Ribbon]

That does make sense. I haven't tried the Gunfighter but I hear it's great!

 

I'm considering an upgrade from the Gladiator to the Gunfighter with twist and the MCG or MCG Pro. But first, I really want that new TECS throttle whenever that comes out.

You'll love GF

TECS throttle system is jaw dropping, but problem as always is waiting!

I almost bought warthog throttle but than i saw that TECS beauty.

Edited January 24, 2018 by EAF_Ribbon

[Wolfram-Harms]

Does anyone know this monster per chance?

(Their website got rated as "unsafe" by my FIREFOX, and I cannot find it at AMAZON.)

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I'm selling VPC Virpil Mongoose T-50 if someone is interested PM.

[Sokol1]

This Gladiator "console" was a early VKB idea that seems don't find market - will cost more than entry-level joysticks (up to $100)  and will compete with "midi-level" HOTAS (Saitek's X-5/6x), most buyers in that price range want a proper "HOTAS" and not a "console".

 

Since OP plan use VR, both VKB Gladiator or T.16000M maybe result with "few buttons" for this environment.

 

 

I checked eshops briefly and it seems Javelin is available mainly in the eastern Europe. But I have found it is also available from amazon.co.uk: https://www.amazon.co.uk/RAVCORE-C0521237-Ravcore-Jevelin/dp/B01LYHNLYM/ref=lp_11650861031_1_2?srs=11650861031&ie=UTF8&qid=1516798237&sr=8-2

 

Don't make sense buy Javelin or Airrow - both AsianGames OEM versions of VKB Gladiator for European market with sub-par features than  VKB version - if a genuine VKB Gladiator is now available in Europe - and for for less than a Javelin in Amazon.

 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/vkb-sim-gladiator-mk-ii-joystick/

 

See case there of buyer of this OEM version that end without support for spare part (by vendor/maker).

Edited January 24, 2018 by Sokol1

[Duntime]

T16000M  / FCS  version either one of those work Id suggest the FCS version as it is more current and is also ambidextrous  for a lefty like me. it gives  12 keys at the base of the josytick and you get  4 more on the stick  and a 8 way hat switch. Granted the hat switch is a bit hard to get some of the quadrants it still works. Plus if you cant afford pedals the stick has a rudder too which works well.

[BeastyBaiter]

Assuming mid range means somewhere around $50 to $100 USD (as opposed to those claiming $350 is midrange), my recommendations are:

 

$50) Thrustmaster T.1600M. Link: https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-2960773-T16000M-Joystick-Black/dp/B01MQEDEEW/ref=lp_402048011_1_5?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1516910136&sr=1-5

 

$100) Thrustmaster T.1600M FCS HOTAS controller. Link: https://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-16000M-FCS-HOTAS-Controller/dp/B01KCHPRXA/ref=lp_402048011_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1516910136&sr=1-1

 

$160) Logitech G Saitek X52 Pro. Link: https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Saitek-Flight-Contol-System/dp/B01LZ1MQTL/ref=sr_1_3?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1516910290&sr=1-3&refinements=p_89%3ALogitech

 

The last option is on the border of the high end market imho but I can personally vouch for it. I used one of these (prior to Logitech buying Saitek) for about 8-9 years before moving to an X-55. After all those years and tons of use, it still worked great. I switched because I wanted more buttons and split throttles. The X52 Pro is substantially better built and more ergonomic than the X-55/56, though it has fewer buttons and axis.

[blitze]

Been using an X45 Saitek myself for years and it has survived very well but it was an old POTS system, the 52 uses Hall Sensors instead.  Ergonomics are very good and shared between the 2 models.  I understand the XX52 Pro has a button doubling up system in software.  Only thing about them is they are light but they come with small suction cups at the bottom which can anchor them to a smooth surface nicely.

 

Good enough to get one by till you can splash on a VKB or Virpil setup ))

[Sokol1]

Assuming mid range means somewhere around $50 to $100 USD (as opposed to those claiming $350 is midrange), my recommendations are:

 

Actually the market has sticks with price from ~$50 to $460 - considering USA market as reference.

 

"Entry-level" - Accord VBK, for define Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" price/features "entry-level' segment is considered joystick sold by price up to $100 and that include "twist rudder", what fit in this range:

 

Logitech 3D PRO - not recommendable due use of cheap/low quality potentiometer in main axis.

T.16000M - recommendable due use o HALL sensor in main axis (X,Y).

VKB Gladiator Mk.II (on top of this price range) - recommendable due use of MaRS sensor in X,Y and (twist) rudder axis, what may justify their more high price.

 

Are some no name brands sticks (OEM) for less than $50, but their quality don't worth mention.

 

"Midi-range"  - became complicated define this segment, because are joystick for $120 but don't include rudder solution, if add a rudder pedal their real cost result more than $200, on the other way are models (Saitek) in this price range that include rudder solution - less expensive rudder pedals in the market are Tm and CH ($90-120). Anyway:

 

$100 to $200

 

Saitek X-52

 

CH sticks - no rudder solution.

 

$200 to $300:

 

Saitek X-56 - if find for their correct price - for unknown reason, maybe due low availability, most places sell overpriced, some for $300.

 

CH joy+CH pedal ~$240 - despite very durable, is no more a good option due obsolete electronics and issue of software in Windows 10/64.

 

VKB Gladiator PRO ~$245 - no rudder solution.

 

"High level" - Let's agree more than $300 - remembering that all have the hidden cost of a rudder pedal, VKB and VPC more the cost of a throttle, what can make their complete HOTAS  (when available) + pedal approximate the $1000 mark.

 

CH combo (joy+throttle+pedal) 

Warthog

VKB

VPC (VirPil)

 

All this considering basically price. Now, when OP ask for "good mid-range" joystick, are looking majority for price or for price/features/quality?

 

An WWII CFS/G has joystick requirements different of a "jet" CFS/G, as well "Star Wars" flight games and their 6DOF flight, add VR to the equation and things get more complicated. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Sokol1

[Sokol1]

BTW - VKB are missing the opportunity in create a good "mid-range" joystick, merging their Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" base (has twist rudder) with MCG non PRO grip, what result in a ~$150/160 price.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Sokol1

[EAF_51_FOX]

don't know which one can be considered "better" than other one in the panorama of joysticks, but have 3 Microsoft FFB 2 (2 red buttons, one green) .. and this because even if this joystick could have "few" buttons compared to other models*  it has real strong construction and Force Feedback feature within precise control in any micro-movement of your hand. 3 because I will never want to lost possibly to fly flight sims without MS FFB 2 definitely... and still after tons of hours of playing I still use just one, other two still in their boxes.

 

*if you need more buttons or hotas consider to play MSFFB2 with any trottle+button devices you can find in the market.

[JG27*Kornezov]

If you are left handed as I, there is only one option trustmaster 16000 .

Edited January 26, 2018 by JG27_Kornezov

[BeastyBaiter]

Actually the market has sticks with price from ~$50 to $460 - considering USA market as reference.

 

"Entry-level" - Accord VBK, for define Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" price/features "entry-level' segment is considered joystick sold by price up to $100 and that include "twist rudder", what fit in this range:

 

Logitech 3D PRO - not recommendable due use of cheap/low quality potentiometer in main axis.

T.16000M - recommendable due use o HALL sensor in main axis (X,Y).

VKB Gladiator Mk.II (on top of this price range) - recommendable due use of MaRS sensor in X,Y and (twist) rudder axis, what may justify their more high price.

 

Are some no name brands sticks (OEM) for less than $50, but their quality don't worth mention.

 

"Midi-range"  - became complicated define this segment, because are joystick for $120 but don't include rudder solution, if add a rudder pedal their real cost result more than $200, on the other way are models (Saitek) in this price range that include rudder solution - less expensive rudder pedals in the market are Tm and CH ($90-120). Anyway:

 

$100 to $200

 

Saitek X-52

 

CH sticks - no rudder solution.

 

$200 to $300:

 

Saitek X-56 - if find for their correct price - for unknown reason, maybe due low availability, most places sell overpriced, some for $300.

 

CH joy+CH pedal ~$240 - despite very durable, is no more a good option due obsolete electronics and issue of software in Windows 10/64.

 

VKB Gladiator PRO ~$245 - no rudder solution.

 

"High level" - Let's agree more than $300 - remembering that all have the hidden cost of a rudder pedal, VKB and VPC more the cost of a throttle, what can make their complete HOTAS  (when available) + pedal approximate the $1000 mark.

 

CH combo (joy+throttle+pedal) 

Warthog

VKB

VPC (VirPil)

 

All this considering basically price. Now, when OP ask for "good mid-range" joystick, are looking majority for price or for price/features/quality?

 

An WWII CFS/G has joystick requirements different of a "jet" CFS/G, as well "Star Wars" flight games and their 6DOF flight, add VR to the equation and things get more complicated. 

 

The bottom end starts at about $15 USD, not $50. Also, Virpil is a small garage operation that might as well not exist as far as those living outside Europe are concerned. It's a shame tbh, as I really like what I see in their sticks. But they simply are not available without dealing with international and intercontinental shipping + currency conversions. VKB has the Gunfighter Mk.II at $100, might be a good option for the OP though I still recommend a HOTAS setup at that price. A glorified Logitech 3d Pro at $100 just doesn't seem right, no matter how well built it is.

[Eclipse4349]

I have the CH Products Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals. They are all midrange pricewise, and seem to be very high quality (I have nothing to compare it with). Word on the net is that they last forever without degrading in performance. The CH Control Manager software is pretty intuitive and allows some really nice functionality.

 

http://www.chproducts.com/Fighterstick-v13-d-722.html

http://www.chproducts.com/Pro-Throttle-v13-p-186.html#3

http://www.chproducts.com/Pro-Pedals-v13-p-179.html#2

 

Good luck! Feel free to add me on Steam - tom4349 - I'm pretty new myself, things are coming along nicely though

[BeastyBaiter]

I currently use CH pedals and have used a CH Yoke in the past. They are tanks and certainly last forever but they aren't very precise or smooth.

[Sokol1]

The bottom end starts at about $15 USD, not $50.

 

If you define up to $100 as "mid-range" then Saitek's X- became "high-end"? 

 

But like I say in "entry-level" range stick's with price/quality bellow Logitech 3D PRO don't worth consideration. 

 

Example, a OEM stick branded by Thrustmaster, use low frequency/low resolution controller borrowed from gamepad's and low cost/low quality potentiometer and don't have "twist rudder".

It's sold in other markets with various "no-name" brands.

 

The low availability - and high price of VKB, VirPil, BRD, MFG, Slaw, GLV224 don't deny the fact they are option, a good option - if potential buyer have patience.

 

@ OP - You will get a better orientation if instead ask for "good mini-range joystick" - as you see "mid-range" is subject to various interpretations, ask for

 

"Good joystick with this and that features - e.g. twist rudder, contactless sensor instead pot'... for up to $$$ value.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

The most important things to consider are

• Pedals vs twist rudder
• TrackIR/VR vs hat switch for view control

A lack of pedals will restrict your stick choices. If you need a switch for view control, pay close attention to ergonomics. I suspect that a full pedals+TrackIR setup does not qualify as 'mid-range', but VR does complicate things. 

 

However, I would advise against thinking too much about controllers. Unless you are willing to spend a lot or build your own hardware, this is a path to endless frustration because there is always something better just out of reach. Ultimately, it is the game that matters more. Sticks within each general 'category' will provide a very similar experience as long as they work.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[Nil]

The Thrustmaster T16000 is an excellent choice.

 

[JG27*Kornezov]

I have used  2 Logitech 3D PRO.

The problem is the complete lack of precision at the center. The movement on the axe is shorter. And the stick itself is shorter.I had one model with force feedback. Well the force feedback was really fun but the shortcomings remain.

People which are happy with this stick are those who do not play combat flight sims. Well you can enjoy the game with any stick but really if you get the Thrustmaster T16000 if you loose a dogfight it will not be because you have a inferior stick. The high priced options are more durable have more options, but regarding pure stick operations I do not think they have an edge.

So with the trustmaster for 20 more USD you get much better stick.

 

If you have a genuine interest in the flight sim follow not with another stick but with pedals.

Also in parallel you need to consider som trackir solution.

Edited January 26, 2018 by JG27_Kornezov

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

If you are left handed as I, there is only one option trustmaster 16000 .

Virpil has left hand option but it is not mid-range .

[JG27*Kornezov]

Thanks but nothing for throttle control for left handed. For me it is simple the throttle is the mouse scroll  wheel in my right hand.

[Sokol1]

Thanks but nothing for throttle control for left handed. 

 

GVL224 custom throttle - mechanics for lever's better than any famous brand.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/23758-iron-mechanic-throttle-motor-control-axes/page-3?do=findComment&comment=512708

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Look at this guys. He got a cheap but good joystick, and with almost no investment he built his own extension

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[JG27*Kornezov]

Thank you guys for the informations when i have free money to spend i know now where.

[esk_pedja]

I was delighted with VKB Gladiator Mk. II presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EliTbOO9ZMo ,

 

real discovery for me, didn't know that this even exists ( Thrustmaster T1600M looks a bit childish compared to Me-109 replica )

 

But then came a disappointment :

If I understand well this guy ( at a middle of review ) it has a soft axes movements, axes don't give resistance (?) for people who like it,

and honestly 90% of WWII "pilots" like a bit tough axes movements.

 

Is it so ?

I kindly ask all the members who tried Gladiator to comment a movement resistance... is it soft, relatively soft or normal WWII stick resistance ???