unlikely_spider Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 Do we know if the AI will be improved with the new campaign? I'd specifically like to see the ability to sneak up on a plane, as currently they seem to be able to see through the back and underside of their own plane. I'm also hopeful to not always devolve into an endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated. Are AI changes part of any of the proposed changes? 3
Finkeren Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 Some to solve some specific problems in relation to the career mode maybe? Otherwise most likely not.
SJ_Butcher Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it
Frenchy56 Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) (* I'm desperate for some AI tweaks and SP commands though). Of course, we need a larger variety of hand signals. Edited January 23, 2018 by Frenchy56
EAF_51_FOX Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) A.I. improvement specially in evasive manouvers will be one of the priority ..if I was 1/C-BoX developer team manager Edited January 23, 2018 by EAF_51_FOX
Lensman Posted January 23, 2018 Posted January 23, 2018 uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it It's improbable but therefore theoretically possible. You might have just been very unlucky.
Jade_Monkey Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 A.I. improvement specially in evasive manouvers will be one of the priority ..if I was 1/C-BoX developer team manager Tell us more... 3
ShamrockOneFive Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) There was mention that the AI would be getting a small tweak when attacking ground targets in hilly terrain. Something that was necessary for the IL-2, Bf110, etc. when flying attack missions on the Kuban map. I don't think we'll see much else for now. They have improved since the series started and we may yet see them improve some more. Edited January 24, 2018 by ShamrockOneFive 1
Bilbo_Baggins Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it They need to do something about the Pe2. Utterly ridiculous
ZachariasX Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 They need to do something about the Pe2. Utterly ridiculous It is utterly ridiculous how most attack the peshka on WoL. If it runs home on the deck full power and set auto level, you‘re playing for the other team if you have a go at it. If you are a super shot and kill it (some are), all you make the other do is spawn sooner for the next attack run. If you cannot surprise the peshka or are not with two or three buddies on the peshka, sacrificing the first of your pals for you getting a kill, then indeed, it is not likely that you make it back. Fact is, that gunner has the most stable platform to aim and it has at least your range of fire. If you do not have positional advantage (front, high abreast) you just get what you deserve. 2
Finkeren Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I love how people are always complaining about the Pe-2 gunners, as if their AI was any different than other gunners in the sim. News flash: they are all the same, they just have different fields of fire and different weaponry. The Pe-2 s. 110 just happens to have a fairly good field of fire and the hardest hitting HMG in the sim. 5
Gambit21 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I love how people are always complaining about the Pe-2 gunners, as if their AI was any different than other gunners in the sim. News flash: they are all the same, they just have different fields of fire and different weaponry. The Pe-2 s. 110 just happens to have a fairly good field of fire and the hardest hitting HMG in the sim. Yep
Picchio Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated This one especially... it's been here since RoF! Also, and slightly off-topic: stubled upon this video yesterday, posted on WOFF forums. I'm not talking about AI here, but I liked that combat radio environment. I certainly still hope for some improvements on this particular aspect. I imagine Bodenplatte would greatly benefit from them too. Edited January 24, 2018 by Picchio
Luftschiff Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 There was mention that the AI would be getting a small tweak when attacking ground targets in hilly terrain. Something that was necessary for the IL-2, Bf110, etc. when flying attack missions on the Kuban map. I don't think we'll see much else for now. They have improved since the series started and we may yet see them improve some more. This (part, I think, of a more general issue with the AI not understanding hilly terrain. I've had so many AI's dive straight into the ground to evade an attack on Kuban) is probably the only fix/improvement I'd expect, and while I certainly agree that the AI could/should be improved - it's also the only critical fix.
Dakpilot Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Even if you leave a single aircraft to fly on autopilot they can be seen flying straight into side of hills when it could have very easily been avoided as has been said the AI terrain avoidance logic for Kuban has to be/will be updated, hopefully this tweak may improve other aspects, fidelity in power use control seems to be one of the issues behind poor AI performance Cheers, Dakpilot
Picchio Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Isn't that CloD not CFS3? And yes, nice radio chatter. See the title
Mac_Messer Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it I mainly fly sp and I have never been killed or even wounded by him, besides my plane leaking all kinds of fluids. Maybe the servers set gunners AI to ace...?
SJ_Butcher Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 For the people that not believe me. This is ridiculous... There are plenty of same samples on YouTube about this problem
Luftschiff Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I am deathly afraid of the PE-2 gunners, and the kind of snap-reaction evident in the video (and many like it) is indeed worth scrutinizing - it's not a feasible reaction. However, as a developer myself I simply cannot even entertain the notion that the PE-2 would have a unique AI. As Finkeren said, that is simply not the case. It hurts me to defend the Peshka, but you must agree that the russian plane IS hit several times in your video. Not under quite as damning circumstances, but it stands to reason that it's more an issue of the vast difference in weapon damage AND ruggedness between the german/russian planes on display. That might be worth looking into as well, but it's a different discussion - we cannot accuse the Pe-2 of extra special secrit AI. 1
LLv24_Zami Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Of course Pe-2 gunner AI is the same as in other bombers. Pe-2 just get`s the best advantage with it`s heavy weapons from the current situation, that`s why it get`s the attention. Imo all gunners should be set at average skill level at the most if you are looking for the most realistic approach.
ZachariasX Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 I'm looking forward to B-2H5 tail gunners with twice the punch of the peshka and much better field of fire as well. The B-25H will be a piece of work. The others... only twice as deadly as the peshka.
Finkeren Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Yeah, gunners at ace level in general react too fast. It's not that they are too accurate - they actually miss a lot, but they bring their guns to bear much too quickly against an opponent that swoops in from outside their field of fire. Not a specific problem to the Pe-2. It's just a lot more unpleasant to get hit by an UBT than an MG 17. EDIT: About that video: It's more than just a little misleading to talk about "sniper gunners" based on that. The ventral gunner is shooting at point blank range, it'd be hard to miss that shot - if you had a chance of seeing the opportunity coming, which the gunner shouldn't have in this case. The problem is, that the gunner reacts too fast and can aim and shoot in an instant - not accuracy. Edited January 24, 2018 by Finkeren
ShamrockOneFive Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 For the people that not believe me. This is ridiculous... There are plenty of same samples on YouTube about this problem In both cases the FW190 and Yak-1 are hit almost within the first second. One has a much higher calibre gun though...
SJ_Butcher Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 In both cases the FW190 and Yak-1 are hit almost within the first second. One has a much higher calibre gun though... the lower gunner shoot a single bullet....
ShamrockOneFive Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 the lower gunner shoot a single bullet.... Yep, that 12.7mm hurts quite a bit more doesn't it.
Ribbon Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Aside from ammo they use which i don't know anything about i did some tests with all bombers. I found their accuracy all the same but field of view differ which makes ju87 and pe2 deadliest of them (Pe2 no more than ju87). Also it needs to take in consideration different attack approach, by this i mean axis fighters attack more in straight line while allied (yak) will use it's agillity to avoid those shots. If attack approach is the same, gunner accuracy is the same on all bombers not taking in mind ballistic damage. 1
SJ_Butcher Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Yep, that 12.7mm hurts quite a bit more doesn't it. why the nonsense? we are talking abut accuracy... the hit rate of bombers guners were less than 1%, if you pull the trigger one bullet and hit that is 100% hit rate, there is a lot of difference between 1% hit and 100% hit, this game needs a better IA, I can tolarate a 5% of hit rate as much, but those strange cases are ridiculous, I can't stand a game like this
SCG_Space_Ghost Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 -snip- I can't stand a game like this Okay.
Finkeren Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 why the nonsense? we are talking abut accuracy... the hit rate of bombers guners were less than 1%, if you pull the trigger one bullet and hit that is 100% hit rate, there is a lot of difference between 1% hit and 100% hit, this game needs a better IA, I can tolarate a 5% of hit rate as much, but those strange cases are ridiculous, I can't stand a game like this As said before this has nothing to do with accuracy, you were passing in front of that gun at a distance of some 10m. It was practically impossible to miss. What IS an issue here is reaction time. For ace lvl gunners there is pretty much no delay at all in their reaction to a plane entering their field of fire. They fire instantly, which is not really realistic at all. Again: Not a problem that’s unique to the Pe-2. All gunners behave like this.
Gambit21 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Yeah, gunners at ace level in general react too fast. It's not that they are too accurate...Speaking of AI across the board, including AAA, it's both.I was testing a mission last night the current release version and watched a torpedo boat with AI set to 'low' shoot at an aircraft and pull perfect lead at 3/4 of a mile or better. Now Low setting is normally fairly plausible, it truly does miss a lot and is by far the best option for gunners only - it's a fair representation of a real life "Ace" gunner I think. Ace setting however results in uncanny single and/or multiple shot accuracy from all units at silly crazy distances. Hang out in the vicinity of a Low gunner too long without junking however and he'll get your number even at a mile or more. Ace will get you without heating up his barrel. Still low setting is quite serviceable. AAA is one thing, problem is you don't want to have to set your aircraft to 'low' AI necessarily just to mitigate gunner accuracy - it's the best option currenty however for all ship/AAA/bomber units if realism is your goal. It's not an easy issue for the team to deal with of course - I can live with its current state. Edited January 24, 2018 by Gambit21
SAS_Storebror Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 For the people that not believe me Let me tell you why: Lack of understanding facts doesn't turn facts into what you believe they were. Repetition of this misunderstanding doesn't make it better either, let alone turning such "alternative facts" into truth. Cheers! Mike 1
PatrickAWlson Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) For SP I always set AI for everything other than fighters to Novice. I do the same with ground AAA. Seems to work well. Not sure what MP does. I would like to see the AI just shifted down: Ace = current veteran Veteran = current average Average = current novice Novice = something new and pretty bad. Finally, nothing that is humanly impossible, even at ace level. Edited January 24, 2018 by PatrickAWlson 3
Finkeren Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 For SP I always set AI for everything other than fighters to Novice. I do the same with ground AAA. Seems to work well. Not sure what MP does. I would like to see the AI just shifted down: Ace = current veteran Veteran = current average Average = current novice Novice = something new and pretty bad. Finally, nothing that is humanly impossible, even at ace level. Absolutely agree.
Gambit21 Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Current Ace can go away - current 'low' setting in editor (not novice) makes a good veteran or even Ace if real life hit probability is considered. Edit:...and yes a new lower setting for the new 'low' Even the current 'high' setting (not veteran) is deadly accurate with AAA - normal as well actually. Based on my builds and testing I'd shift things, but the new Ace wouldn't be set higher than the current 'normal' Even 'high' which is just below 'ace' is too much with most units. Edited January 24, 2018 by Gambit21
EAF_51_FOX Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 about the video: even an old game like CFS3 has better A.I. manouvers compared to BOS now about the video: even an old game like CFS3 has better A.I. manouvers compared to BOS now
1stCL/SaBot* Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) For the people that not believe me. This is ridiculous... There are plenty of same samples on YouTube about this problem Zajcev on board I am agree with you...this is ridiculous [Edited]. and DM of that PE-2 too Edited January 24, 2018 by Bearcat
Avimimus Posted January 24, 2018 Posted January 24, 2018 Do we know if the AI will be improved with the new campaign? I'd specifically like to see the ability to sneak up on a plane, as currently they seem to be able to see through the back and underside of their own plane. I'm also hopeful to not always devolve into an endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated. Are AI changes part of any of the proposed changes? This! This has been a problem for AI since rise of flight... 1) Dogfights involving a gradual loss of energy until the enemy is flying in a slow circle 2) Lack of gross and fine traverse for anti-aircraft guns, lack of difficulties in ranging 3) Lack of more complex effects (e.g. subtle impacts of aircraft motion, sighting issues) for AI gunners in general There is also the issue of the AI diving into the ground if they have too much energy - but they seem to be addressing that already? Do we know if the AI will be improved with the new campaign? I'd specifically like to see the ability to sneak up on a plane, as currently they seem to be able to see through the back and underside of their own plane. I'm also hopeful to not always devolve into an endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated. Are AI changes part of any of the proposed changes? This! This has been a problem for AI since rise of flight... 1) Dogfights involving a gradual loss of energy until the enemy is flying in a slow circle 2) Lack of gross and fine traverse for anti-aircraft guns, lack of difficulties in ranging 3) Lack of more complex effects (e.g. subtle impacts of aircraft motion, sighting issues) for AI gunners in general There is also the issue of the AI diving into the ground if they have too much energy - but they seem to be addressing that already?
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