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AI Updated in 3.001?


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unlikely_spider
Posted

Do we know if the AI will be improved with the new campaign? I'd specifically like to see the ability to sneak up on a plane, as currently they seem to be able to see through the back and underside of their own plane. I'm also hopeful to not always devolve into an endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated. Are AI changes part of any of the proposed changes?

  • Upvote 3
Posted

Some to solve some specific problems in relation to the career mode maybe?

 

Otherwise most likely not.

Posted

uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it

Posted (edited)

(* I'm desperate for some AI tweaks and SP commands though).

Of course, we need a larger variety of hand signals.

Edited by Frenchy56
Posted (edited)

A.I. improvement specially in evasive manouvers will be one of the priority ..if I was  1/C-BoX developer team manager :rolleyes:

Edited by EAF_51_FOX
Posted

uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it

It's improbable but therefore theoretically possible. You might have just been very unlucky.

Posted

A.I. improvement specially in evasive manouvers will be one of the priority ..if I was  1/C-BoX developer team manager :rolleyes:

 

Tell us more...  :coffee:

  • Upvote 3
ShamrockOneFive
Posted (edited)

There was mention that the AI would be getting a small tweak when attacking ground targets in hilly terrain. Something that was necessary for the IL-2, Bf110, etc. when flying attack missions on the Kuban map.

 

I don't think we'll see much else for now. They have improved since the series started and we may yet see them improve some more.

Edited by ShamrockOneFive
  • Upvote 1
Bilbo_Baggins
Posted

uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it

They need to do something about the Pe2. Utterly ridiculous

Posted

They need to do something about the Pe2. Utterly ridiculous

It is utterly ridiculous how most attack the peshka on WoL. If it runs home on the deck full power and set auto level, you‘re playing for the other team if you have a go at it. If you are a super shot and kill it (some are), all you make the other do is spawn sooner for the next attack run. If you cannot surprise the peshka or are not with two or three buddies on the peshka, sacrificing the first of your pals for you getting a kill, then indeed, it is not likely that you make it back. Fact is, that gunner has the most stable platform to aim and it has at least your range of fire. If you do not have positional advantage (front, high abreast) you just get what you deserve.

  • Upvote 2
Posted

I love how people are always complaining about the Pe-2 gunners, as if their AI was any different than other gunners in the sim. News flash: they are all the same, they just have different fields of fire and different weaponry.

 

The Pe-2 s. 110 just happens to have a fairly good field of fire and the hardest hitting HMG in the sim.

  • Upvote 5
Posted

I love how people are always complaining about the Pe-2 gunners, as if their AI was any different than other gunners in the sim. News flash: they are all the same, they just have different fields of fire and different weaponry.

The Pe-2 s. 110 just happens to have a fairly good field of fire and the hardest hitting HMG in the sim.

Yep

Posted (edited)

endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated

 

This one especially... it's been here since RoF! :(

 

Also, and slightly off-topic: stubled upon this video yesterday, posted on WOFF forums. I'm not talking about AI here, but I liked that combat radio environment. I certainly still hope for some improvements on this particular aspect. I imagine Bodenplatte would greatly benefit from them too.

 

Edited by Picchio
Posted

There was mention that the AI would be getting a small tweak when attacking ground targets in hilly terrain. Something that was necessary for the IL-2, Bf110, etc. when flying attack missions on the Kuban map.

 

I don't think we'll see much else for now. They have improved since the series started and we may yet see them improve some more.

 

 

This (part, I think, of a more general issue with the AI not understanding hilly terrain. I've had so many AI's dive straight into the ground to evade an attack on Kuban) is probably the only fix/improvement I'd expect, and while I certainly agree that the AI could/should be improved - it's also the only critical fix.

Posted

Even if you leave a single aircraft to fly on autopilot they can be seen flying straight into side of hills when it could have very easily been avoided 

 

as has been said the AI terrain avoidance logic for Kuban has to be/will be updated, hopefully this tweak may improve other aspects,  fidelity in power use control seems to be one of the issues behind poor AI performance

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

Posted

Isn't that CloD not CFS3?

 

And yes, nice radio chatter.

 

See the title ;)

Posted

uff I hope that, before yesterday I was in WOL server and tried to kill a peshka, the stupid gunner killed me with a single bullet at more than 600 meters....I just instantly closed the game and since then I am not playing it

I mainly fly sp and I have never been killed or even wounded by him, besides my plane leaking all kinds of fluids. Maybe the servers set gunners AI to ace...?

Posted

It's CFS3 heavily modded...

  • Upvote 1
Posted

For the people that not believe me. This is ridiculous...

 

There are plenty of same samples on YouTube about this problem

Posted

I am deathly afraid of the PE-2 gunners, and the kind of snap-reaction evident in the video (and many like it) is indeed worth scrutinizing - it's not a feasible reaction. However, as a developer myself I simply cannot even entertain the notion that the PE-2 would have a unique AI. As Finkeren said, that is simply not the case. It hurts me to defend the Peshka, but you must agree that the russian plane IS hit several times in your video. Not under quite as damning circumstances, but it stands to reason that it's more an issue of the vast difference in weapon damage AND ruggedness between the german/russian planes on display. That might be worth looking into as well, but it's a different discussion - we cannot accuse the Pe-2 of extra special secrit AI.

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Of course Pe-2 gunner AI is the same as in other bombers. Pe-2 just get`s the best advantage with it`s heavy weapons from the current situation, that`s why it get`s the attention. Imo all gunners should be set at average skill level at the most if you are looking for the most realistic approach. 

Posted

I'm looking forward to B-2H5 tail gunners with twice the punch of the peshka and much better field of fire as well. The B-25H will be a piece of work. The others... only twice as deadly as the peshka. ;)

Posted (edited)

Yeah, gunners at ace level in general react too fast. It's not that they are too accurate - they actually miss a lot, but they bring their guns to bear much too quickly against an opponent that swoops in from outside their field of fire.

 

Not a specific problem to the Pe-2. It's just a lot more unpleasant to get hit by an UBT than an MG 17.

 

EDIT: About that video: It's more than just a little misleading to talk about "sniper gunners" based on that. The ventral gunner is shooting at point blank range, it'd be hard to miss that shot - if you had a chance of seeing the opportunity coming, which the gunner shouldn't have in this case. The problem is, that the gunner reacts too fast and can aim and shoot in an instant - not accuracy.

Edited by Finkeren
ShamrockOneFive
Posted

For the people that not believe me. This is ridiculous...

 

There are plenty of same samples on YouTube about this problem

 

In both cases the FW190 and Yak-1 are hit almost within the first second. One has a much higher calibre gun though...

Posted

In both cases the FW190 and Yak-1 are hit almost within the first second. One has a much higher calibre gun though...

 

the lower gunner shoot a single bullet....

SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted

It's CFS3 heavily modded...

 

This.

ShamrockOneFive
Posted

the lower gunner shoot a single bullet....

 

Yep, that 12.7mm hurts quite a bit more doesn't it.

Posted

Aside from ammo they use which i don't know anything about i did some tests with all bombers.

I found their accuracy all the same but field of view differ which makes ju87 and pe2 deadliest of them (Pe2 no more than ju87).

Also it needs to take in consideration different attack approach, by this i mean axis fighters attack more in straight line while allied (yak) will use it's agillity to avoid those shots.

If attack approach is the same, gunner accuracy is the same on all bombers not taking in mind ballistic damage.

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Yep, that 12.7mm hurts quite a bit more doesn't it.

 

why the nonsense? we are talking abut accuracy... the hit rate of bombers guners were less than 1%, if you pull the trigger one bullet and hit that is 100% hit rate, there is a lot of difference between 1% hit and 100% hit, this game needs a better IA, I can tolarate a 5% of hit rate as much, but those strange cases are ridiculous, I can't stand a game like this

SCG_Space_Ghost
Posted

-snip-

 

I can't stand a game like this

 

Okay.  :bye:

Posted

why the nonsense? we are talking abut accuracy... the hit rate of bombers guners were less than 1%, if you pull the trigger one bullet and hit that is 100% hit rate, there is a lot of difference between 1% hit and 100% hit, this game needs a better IA, I can tolarate a 5% of hit rate as much, but those strange cases are ridiculous, I can't stand a game like this

As said before this has nothing to do with accuracy, you were passing in front of that gun at a distance of some 10m. It was practically impossible to miss.

 

What IS an issue here is reaction time. For ace lvl gunners there is pretty much no delay at all in their reaction to a plane entering their field of fire. They fire instantly, which is not really realistic at all.

 

Again: Not a problem that’s unique to the Pe-2. All gunners behave like this.

Posted (edited)

Yeah, gunners at ace level in general react too fast. It's not that they are too accurate...

Speaking of AI across the board, including AAA, it's both.

I was testing a mission last night the current release version and watched a torpedo boat with AI set to 'low' shoot at an aircraft and pull perfect lead at 3/4 of a mile or better. Now Low setting is normally fairly plausible, it truly does miss a lot and is by far the best option for gunners only - it's a fair representation of a real life "Ace" gunner I think. Ace setting however results in uncanny single and/or multiple shot accuracy from all units at silly crazy distances. Hang out in the vicinity of a Low gunner too long without junking however and he'll get your number even at a mile or more. Ace will get you without heating up his barrel.

Still low setting is quite serviceable.

 

AAA is one thing, problem is you don't want to have to set your aircraft to 'low' AI necessarily just to mitigate gunner accuracy - it's the best option currenty however for all ship/AAA/bomber units if realism is your goal.

 

It's not an easy issue for the team to deal with of course - I can live with its current state.

Edited by Gambit21
SAS_Storebror
Posted

For the people that not believe me

 

Let me tell you why: Lack of understanding facts doesn't turn facts into what you believe they were. Repetition of this misunderstanding doesn't make it better either, let alone turning such "alternative facts" into truth.

 

Cheers!

Mike

  • Upvote 1
PatrickAWlson
Posted (edited)

For SP I always set AI for everything other than fighters to Novice.  I do the same with ground AAA.  Seems to work well.  Not sure what MP does.

 

I would like to see the AI just shifted down:

Ace = current veteran

Veteran = current average

Average = current novice

Novice = something new and pretty bad.

 

Finally, nothing that is humanly impossible, even at ace level.

Edited by PatrickAWlson
  • Upvote 3
Posted

For SP I always set AI for everything other than fighters to Novice. I do the same with ground AAA. Seems to work well. Not sure what MP does.

 

I would like to see the AI just shifted down:

Ace = current veteran

Veteran = current average

Average = current novice

Novice = something new and pretty bad.

 

Finally, nothing that is humanly impossible, even at ace level.

Absolutely agree.

Posted (edited)

Current Ace can go away - current 'low' setting in editor (not novice) makes a good veteran or even Ace if real life hit probability is considered.

 

Edit:...and yes a new lower setting for the new 'low' Even the current 'high' setting (not veteran) is deadly accurate with AAA - normal as well actually.

Based on my builds and testing I'd shift things, but the new Ace wouldn't be set higher than the current 'normal' Even 'high' which is just below 'ace' is too much with most units.

Edited by Gambit21
Posted

about the video: even an old game like CFS3 has better A.I. manouvers compared to BOS now :rolleyes:


about the video: even an old game like CFS3 has better A.I. manouvers compared to BOS now :rolleyes:

Posted (edited)

For the people that not believe me. This is ridiculous...

 

 

There are plenty of same samples on YouTube about this problem

Zajcev on board 

I am agree with you...this is ridiculous [Edited].

and DM of that PE-2 too

Edited by Bearcat
Posted

Do we know if the AI will be improved with the new campaign? I'd specifically like to see the ability to sneak up on a plane, as currently they seem to be able to see through the back and underside of their own plane. I'm also hopeful to not always devolve into an endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated. Are AI changes part of any of the proposed changes?

 

This! This has been a problem for AI since rise of flight...

 

1) Dogfights involving a gradual loss of energy until the enemy is flying in a slow circle

 

2) Lack of gross and fine traverse for anti-aircraft guns, lack of difficulties in ranging

 

3) Lack of more complex effects (e.g. subtle impacts of aircraft motion, sighting issues) for AI gunners in general

 

There is also the issue of the AI diving into the ground if they have too much energy - but they seem to be addressing that already?

Do we know if the AI will be improved with the new campaign? I'd specifically like to see the ability to sneak up on a plane, as currently they seem to be able to see through the back and underside of their own plane. I'm also hopeful to not always devolve into an endlessly-circling turnfight down to the deck when I've got one fighter isolated. Are AI changes part of any of the proposed changes?

 

This! This has been a problem for AI since rise of flight...

 

1) Dogfights involving a gradual loss of energy until the enemy is flying in a slow circle

 

2) Lack of gross and fine traverse for anti-aircraft guns, lack of difficulties in ranging

 

3) Lack of more complex effects (e.g. subtle impacts of aircraft motion, sighting issues) for AI gunners in general

 

There is also the issue of the AI diving into the ground if they have too much energy - but they seem to be addressing that already?

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