109 G4

[JG27_Steini]

In BoK we will get the 109 G4. I am courious what will be the main difference to the 109 G2. I wonder why the devs modeled the G4, because it sure is 99,9% the same as the G2. Do i miss any advantage/disadavantages?

[Barnacles]

The G4 is not limited to 1.3ata like the G2 stimulated in BoS

[MeoW.Scharfi]

Historical Reason.

 

The main differences are:

 

- not derated(goes up to 1.42 ata)

- bigger wheels because of the bad airfield conditions that the Luftwaffe had at eastern front(wheels are also better to maintain and produce)

- bigger radio

 

=> overall more weight that improves diving but makes everything else worse

=> maybe better turning with full ata than the G2 and higher topspeed

Edited January 20, 2018 by MeoW.Scharfi

[Yogiflight]

In BoK we will get the 109 G4

What do you mean by 'we will get'? As you obiousely preordered, you can already fly it in QMB, PWCG, il2mg, and of course, online.

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention samson's scripted campaign 'TAMAN BRIDGEHEAD', originally created for the G6, but already flyable with the G4.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Yogiflight

[molodoi]

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention samson's scripted campaign 'TAMAN BRIDGEHEAD', originally created for the G6, but already flyable with the G4.

 

+1, I am playing this campaign and can confirm you'll have to give it a try. With or without the gunpods, it is really nice.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The why is likely for two reasons:

 

1) Most Bf109s in the Kuban campaign were G-4s (with some G-2s early on and some G-6s later)

2) Folks who buy just the Kuban expansion wouldn't have a 109

 

The G-6 wasn't ideal because it doesn't cover the whole time and the G-2 is the same.

 

IMHO, I like flying the G-4 quite a bit and while it has some disadvantages over the G-2 it does have the advantage of temporarily being faster and that extra boost of energy lets you crank it around a bit more in a turn at times. Used sparingly you can really get quite a lot out of this fighter.

[Eicio]

I think that a rookie should go for a G2, this plane is really easy to fly, fast, manoeuverable and you won't burn your engine.

[InProgress]

Maybe a bit off topic but which 109 has the best climbing power? And what's the difference between E version wings and F+?

[Necrobaron]

Regarding the wings, in a nutshell the E series (and before) have squared off wing tips and the F series onward have rounded wing tips.

[JG27_Steini]

Danke für die Informationen. Hat mir sehr geholfen.

[InProgress]

Yea I know but why, what's the difference between these wings

[MeoW.Scharfi]

Maybe a bit off topic but which 109 has the best climbing power? And what's the difference between E version wings and F+?

 

Bf 109 G2 is the best climber in IL2 BoX until Bodenplatte.

 

Bf 109 E outturns all russian planes at slow speed ingame.

Edited January 20, 2018 by MeoW.Scharfi

[InProgress]

So these square wings are better for turning?

[MeoW.Scharfi]

 

 

So these square wings are better for turning?

 

I don't think so. The reason why later 109s got these wings have more to do with aerodynamic stability at certain speeds.

[InProgress]

So square were just mistake? And nothing good for? Looks great tho and I think some American ones also had these type of wings.

[MeoW.Scharfi]

Elliptical wings are used if you want lift. But they also cause drag. In the Bf 109F and later +, the wings have the perfect balance of good lift + not much drag. That's why Spitfire's struggle when you dive away from them. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by MeoW.Scharfi

[blitze]

Elliptical wings are used if you want lift. But they also cause drag. In the Bf 109F and later +, the wings have the perfect balance of good lift + not much drag. That's why Spitfire's struggle when you dive away from them. 

Blasphemy!

 

Spitfires never struggle in anything, the pilots just considered it not good sport. 

[Barnacles]

So square were just mistake? And nothing good for? Looks great tho and I think some American ones also had these type of wings.

 

I think the 109E had a better roll rate, in part due to the squared off wingtips. Some Spitfires had the clipped wing modification to increase roll rate.

[Eicio]

Elliptical wings are used if you want lift. But they also cause drag. In the Bf 109F and later +, the wings have the perfect balance of good lift + not much drag. That's why Spitfire's struggle when you dive away from them. 

 

Yeah spitfire "should" struggle from a logical point of view, but for some dark magic involved spitfires could follow bf 109 in a dive IRL and so on in sims... I know it makes no sense but that's the way it is, english did some kind of witchcraft for their spit I don't see another explanation...

[Bilbo_Baggins]

The Squared wings roll faster as the wingtips with aileron positioned right up to the squared edge provide a higher rolling moment of inertia.

 

The ailerons on that airframe also have higher deflection angles and so give better roll authority at low speeds, but heavier stick forces at high speeds.

 

They wanted manageable stick forces with the higher speeds of the F airframe so decreased the deflection angles, which essentially improves the gearing and leverage of the controls.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Mcdaddy

[ShamrockOneFive]

Yeah spitfire "should" struggle from a logical point of view, but for some dark magic involved spitfires could follow bf 109 in a dive IRL and so on in sims... I know it makes no sense but that's the way it is, english did some kind of witchcraft for their spit I don't see another explanation...

 

Definitely witchcraft

 

Or... maybe there's more to wings than just the silhouette

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The Bf109E and F were fundamentally different Aircraft, sharing only the same basic Bodyshell. The Friedrich Wing doesn't share a single Part with the Emil Wing, there simply is no Comparison. The Flaps and Aileron are fundamentally different Designs and so are the Slats and work by different Principles. The Rudder and Elevators are different as well. 

 

The F and later were laid out for consistent Rate of Roll, it's Wing Design is a lot Stiffer than the Emil Wing, and the Ailerons were of the Frise Type, which reduced Stick Forces at High Speed. 

 

The Emil has a Wing essentially a slightly toughened up Bf-108 Wing, you could almost say they added bit of Aluminium here and there and replaced the Landing Lights with MGs. The Dimensions are almost identical. 

And that Wing's Aerodynamics simply can't cope with 450+ all that well. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[InProgress]

So what's the best way to use bf109 we have in game for every version? E, F, G, are they all energy fighters for BnZ tactic? Or E is better for turn fight? 

And how about 190? It does not seem like good at climbing, you lose lots of energy in compare to 109 when climbing, unless you are going 700km/h+ you can't go very high very fast.

Edited January 21, 2018 by InProgress

[MeoW.Scharfi]

So what's the best way to use bf109 we have in game for every version? E, F, G, are they all energy fighters for BnZ tactic? Or E is better for turn fight? 

 

Depends whats your opponent is flying.

 

E7 vs I16/P40 like on TAW or RE.

You can outturn both of them at slow speed without any problems, but you can also BnZ them. P40 is faster than E7 but E7 will outturn/outroll it at slower speed.

 

F4 can do everything. BnZ and turnfight with everyone.

 

G2 is the best energy fighter in BoX. It has the highest climb rate in all alts. You should rather go BnZ than turnfighting with it, but it's also decent in turning.

 

G4 can turnfight and BnZ, too.(worse in turning than F4 and worse in climbing than G2)

 

G6 Is not out yet, but one thing is for sure, you will need good aim in it, just like in the G Series you have to kill quick as long you have energy in your turns..

 

Which counts for all 109s is that when you turn for the deflection shot on your victim, you have only a short moment where you can outturn literally everything and pull ur angle right for the perfect deflection shoot. If you miss or your victim survives that, you have to decide to turnfight with him or gain energy.

Edited January 21, 2018 by MeoW.Scharfi

[InProgress]

Thanks for nice explanation

[=X51=VC_]

you have only a short moment where you can outturn literally everything and pull ur angle right for the perfect deflection shoot

 

If you've dived on your opponent that time is zero because your elevator is so stiff you won't be turning anywhere or hitting anything if he saw you coming and did a break turn.

[MeoW.Scharfi]

 

 

If you've dived on your opponent that time is zero because your elevator is so stiff you won't be turning anywhere or hitting anything if he saw you coming and did a break turn.

 

That is true, but I meant in a dogfight when you are not too fast.

[=X51=VC_]

That is true, but I meant in a dogfight when you are not too fast.

Fair enough, that makes more sense. It's a very narrow balance though, if you are slow enough to pull lead for a shot you can't always choose to disengage because you can get sniped before you open enough distance.

[InProgress]

Btw F2 is no different to F4?

[III/JG2Gustav05]

 

 

G4 can turnfight and BnZ, too.(worse in turning than F4 and worse in climbing than G2)

 

 

You can have about 5mins with G4's engine at 2700RPM, the climb rate is a little better than G2 at this setting.

Edited January 22, 2018 by III/JG2Gustav05

[Aap]

 

 

Bf 109 E outturns all russian planes at slow speed ingame.

 

Are you sure? 

I16 feels like a better turner and according to Han's tech specs it has smaller turn time (though given at different speeds). 

[Max_Damage]

I16 doesnt have slats and will punish the player for turning though. E7 has them and will be better.

[samson]

 

 

You can have about 5mins with G4's engine at 3700RPM, the climb rate is a little better than G2 at this setting.

Guess 2700 rpm. No? 

[III/JG2Gustav05]

 

Guess 2700 rpm. No? 

Thank you for pointing it out, you are right, my typo, should be 2700.

[MeoW.Scharfi]

 

 

Btw F2 is no different to F4?

 

F2 is lighter, F4 has the better engine and your choice should be always F4 over F2 in my opinion.

 

F2 has 15mm and 20mm as option. Let's say the 15mm are "special". 

[Barnacles]

your choice should be always F4 over F2 in my opinion..

 

 

 

..Unless you want to give the VVS a sporting chance

[Corsair]

- not derated(goes up to 1.42 ata)

Well for that reason they could have gone IL-2 1946-like and make a 'Bf 109 G-2 late (1,42 ata)'.

 

.. well I'm glad they didn't. But my point is both G-2 and G-4 (w/ the same engine, DB 605 A) were concerned by the 1,42 ata boost bans and clearance. 

I wish they would have gone the same way than they did with the La-5 w/ M-82(F) and propose both banned and cleared boost engines as a modification. It's a shame to have the G-2 blocked some time in early 1943 when we know that a bit later and possibly within BOK timeframe it was cleared for 1,42 ata. Similarly, it's a shame to have only a depiction of the G-4 w/ 1,42 ata DB 605 A while it was not necessarily cleared for it in earlier in '43.

Edited January 22, 2018 by EC.5/25.Corsair