Server balance

[JG7_X-Man]

Coconut - Let's hope I am wrong about my last statement. 

[SCG_OpticFlow]

I am really indebted to Coconut for running the balancer on his server.

Still, as the current campaign is running, 251 hours have been flown by axis pilots, 174 by VVS.

How much more would you like to have?

Imagine how this would look like without the balancer.

You LW only guys are really getting ... boring ?

 

Yet you were not complaining or switching sides when it was 8-9 of you all flying fighters against 1-2 of us desperately trying to stop a tank invasion on Kuban map...

[Nocke]

Indeed. Once upon a time that happened. Please note I was talking about an average over hundreds of hours. Its just the rule to have more blue than red flying. Does that mean that if once in a year I find myself in a reversed situation I shall switch immediately to help the poor blue flyers?

Interesting also how well you remember that occasion. Its rare for you, and doesnt feel good, correct?

[SCG_OpticFlow]

Indeed. Once upon a time that happened. Please note I was talking about an average over hundreds of hours. Its just the rule to have more blue than red flying. Does that mean that if once in a year I find myself in a reversed situation I shall switch immediately to help the poor blue flyers?

Interesting also how well you remember that occasion. Its rare for you, and doesnt feel good, correct?

 

For a long time we were losing maps in November and December and playing outnumbered. Even on the last Kuban map I couldn't spent a minute on Anti-Air missions. But that adversity has changed us too. It shaped the core of team blue into a lean, focused, efficient machine. I'm sure hardship would do the same for the red team. There is no better teacher than failure.

[Leon_Portier]

Screw offensive mission with theese numbers.

[Nocke]

For a long time we were losing maps in November and December and playing outnumbered. Even on the last Kuban map I couldn't spent a minute on Anti-Air missions. But that adversity has changed us too. It shaped the core of team blue into a lean, focused, efficient machine. I'm sure hardship would do the same for the red team. There is no better teacher than failure.

November, Coconuts expert: flying time 192h VVS, 236h Axis. 84 VVS pilots, 61 mixed, 133 Axis

December:                                              297h VVs,  346h Axis. 116 VVS pilots, 66 mixed, 125 Axis.

In any case, there has not been a single month, as far as the stats go back, in which the axis did not have more flight hours than VVS.

But thats OK. I am not crying over this. I got used to it over the years. Its not that bad either. 

Although, of course, I would welcome a temporary change in this, which would allow me to fly axis from time to time.

However, to claim you have been outnumbered is just based on nothing, on average. No cherry picking, please.

Overall, there seems to be an advantage in players and flight hours of 20-50% for the axis pilots.

The point I was trying to make in the beginning was that I was grateful to Coconut having the balancer running because I thought it would be much worse without it.

I have to admit, though, that searching for proof I browsed a little the stats pages of the finnish virtual pilots and WOL - just to find the ratios there seem to be very similar, even without the balancer.

Also, the balancer does not avoid situations like the one Leon_Portier portrayed above, and which I have seen equally recently, me alone vs. 9 axis flyers.

I bet that happens as well, from time to time, the other way round.

 

So, yes, I might change my opinion about balancers, not sure yet.

 

But I am far away from feeling pity for you poor outnumbered axis underdogs ...

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

The irony is that on your own website (I apologise if it is not your webpage)  you profess to be "A lover of aviation in general and a great fan of aerial combat simulation" , yet you appear to be bored and have a narrow minded attitude to other aircraft and more importantly to other fellow players.  Perhaps you are not a real aviation fan and more of a "I will only play the best aircraft to look good!  Personally, your attitude bores me and not this thread as it appears to bore you, and I take my hat off to anybody that contributes in a positive way to keep the game alive, rather than your dismissive selfish tone(s)!

 

In addition, I will be interested to see if your Blue alliance or your little '1JSpan" gang will carry on when BOBP is released or whether the new shiny planes will attract you away, because  you are such a fan of aerial combat, LOL!! .  Perhaps time will tell!

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

https://1jspan.blogspot.com.au/

https://pilotodecombate.blogspot.com.au/

 

Hello Haza,

 

Please, I do not want to start a controversy

 

I am really passionate about real AVIATION in all its modalities. But in aerial combat simulation, I'm only interested in WWI and WWII plus World War II. And when I say that I'm bored with these discussions, I've seen a lot of this style, and they never get anywhere, just the one that likes German planes flies in the Luftwaffe and the one that likes Russian planes will always fly in airplanes. the VVS, and the same will happen in Bonderplate regardless of which plane is better or worse.

 

At the beginning of Oleg's IL-2 (The big cardboard box that brought a CD and a full printed manual) I do not know if you are from that time. This means that I have been in combat simulation for 18 years in the IL-2. Other years at Aces High and CFS. I think I have many years in this virtual air combat simulation.

 

Having said that, you have met hundreds of virtual air combat squads, and I can assure you that it will be very difficult to get squads that have been created for the purpose of flying in the Luftwaffe since its inception. You will hardly get them to fly on Russian planes in a competition where At the end there are personal and squad statistics. You have to understand that there are virtual pilots who are fan of the Luftwaffe aircraft, the Russian planes or the RAF or the USAF planes.

 

It's very simple, if I'm forced to fly on planes that I do not like to fly, for whatever reason, better off-line flight than there are no problems in which the fight is disproportionate, and I do not care if I fly on the side with numerical inferiority.

 

It's as simple as this:

Do you think that if instead of having the entertainment of simulators of aircraft of the Second World War, we had for example football fans with FIFA and participated in online competition of trophies with statistics and all that, a great fan and Real Madrid Would you play in FC Barcelona to match the number of players? No I dont think so!

 

Yes, in the end they are games, but I prefer to call them simulators, and the simulators simulate reality.

 

And yes, when Bonderplate arrives, we will continue to fly in Luftwaffe planes even if we have to fight against all of them, against hundreds of planes of the RAF and the USAF.

 

When I participate in virtual wars competitions I take them as they are. If you have to defend a bomber as a mission I try to comply even if I die in the statistics, if I have to attack some tanks so that they do not reach our defenses, I can accomplish whatever the result.

 

As an example of what I say you can see my statistics for example in the TAW, they are not a pilot who looks only for his life, but for the missions and for my team. I try to help in whatever it is and that entails many deaths and missions without a single destruction of combat aircraft.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=1/JSpan_Guerrero

 

a greeting 

Edited February 15, 2018 by 1/JSpan_Guerrero

[Haza]

 

Hello Haza,

 

Please, I do not want to start a controversy

 

I am really passionate about real AVIATION in all its modalities. But in aerial combat simulation, I'm only interested in WWI and WWII plus World War II. And when I say that I'm bored with these discussions, I've seen a lot of this style, and they never get anywhere, just the one that likes German planes flies in the Luftwaffe and the one that likes Russian planes will always fly in airplanes. the VVS, and the same will happen in Bonderplate regardless of which plane is better or worse.

 

At the beginning of Oleg's IL-2 (The big cardboard box that brought a CD and a full printed manual) I do not know if you are from that time. This means that I have been in combat simulation for 18 years in the IL-2. Other years at Aces High and CFS. I think I have many years in this virtual air combat simulation.

 

Having said that, you have met hundreds of virtual air combat squads, and I can assure you that it will be very difficult to get squads that have been created for the purpose of flying in the Luftwaffe since its inception. You will hardly get them to fly on Russian planes in a competition where At the end there are personal and squad statistics. You have to understand that there are virtual pilots who are fan of the Luftwaffe aircraft, the Russian planes or the RAF or the USAF planes.

 

It's very simple, if I'm forced to fly on planes that I do not like to fly, for whatever reason, better off-line flight than there are no problems in which the fight is disproportionate, and I do not care if I fly on the side with numerical inferiority.

 

It's as simple as this:

Do you think that if instead of having the entertainment of simulators of aircraft of the Second World War, we had for example football fans with FIFA and participated in online competition of trophies with statistics and all that, a great fan and Real Madrid Would you play in FC Barcelona to match the number of players? No I dont think so!

 

Yes, in the end they are games, but I prefer to call them simulators, and the simulators simulate reality.

 

And yes, when Bonderplate arrives, we will continue to fly in Luftwaffe planes even if we have to fight against all of them, against hundreds of planes of the RAF and the USAF.

 

When I participate in virtual wars competitions I take them as they are. If you have to defend a bomber as a mission I try to comply even if I die in the statistics, if I have to attack some tanks so that they do not reach our defenses, I can accomplish whatever the result.

 

As an example of what I say you can see my statistics for example in the TAW, they are not a pilot who looks only for his life, but for the missions and for my team. I try to help in whatever it is and that entails many deaths and missions without a single destruction of combat aircraft.

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot.php?name=1/JSpan_Guerrero

 

a greeting 

 

 

 

Hello Guerrero,

 

Firstly yes, if you are referring to the printed manual that has pages 1-88 (Chap 4 is a flying tutorial) then yes I still have that box set (minimum system requirements, Pentium II 400, 120 Mb RAM, Windows 98).  In addition, I started PC flight sims back in about 1984 with Solo flight for the Commodore 64 and to a lesser extent Harrier Attack and Combat Lynx (about 1985-7), therefore, I have dabbled in sims for a while, although to be honest perhaps the IL2 series for me was the first real PC combat flight sim as even my old F-16 game from 1992 was not that great. 

 

Therefore, as I have no interest in arguing over what you prefer to do or what some teams want to do, the issue I was raising is that I could not understand why if you had such an interest in aviation as you claim to have etc, you appeared to have no interest in VVS aircraft at all. Prior to this game, although I was aware of WW2, VVS aircraft I did not fully appreciate the number or types that were used in WW2 and perhaps was more focused on Cold-war era USSR aircraft. However, since BOS release I have researched as much as I can to understand the aircraft and was rather shocked to release that thinking how much I knew about WW2 aircraft (only focusing on RAF/USA and German aircraft), I actually realised that I knew very little. 

 

That said, I know little about the Japanese aircraft, however, I'm sure this will eventually change with the release of Pacific.  Therefore, I guess if it is only Luftwaffe aircraft that you enjoy playing in the sim and have a similar mind-set team that you belong to, then fill your boots as I guess perhaps I'm just a general WW2 aircraft enthusiast, rather than one sided fanatic, however, each to their own.

 

 

Regards  

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

Hello Guerrero, 

 

Therefore, I guess if it is only Luftwaffe aircraft that you enjoy playing in the sim and have a similar mind-set team that you belong to, then fill your boots as I guess perhaps I'm just a general WW2 aircraft enthusiast, rather than one sided fanatic, however, each to their own.

 

 

Regards  

 

Hi Haza,

 

Maybe you have not understood it well. I am not a fan of the Luftwaffe as an organization, but I am an aircraft fan like the Me-109, FW-190 and Bf-110. I have piloted all the planes (fighters of combat) of the IL-2 simulator from 2001 to those of today, but if you want to be moderately good flying a fighter in an air combat simulator you have to choose an airplane or two as much. Over time I learned that the best thing is just to fly an airplane until you know the last detail of that device and its flight system. If you fly today a La-5, tomorrow a BF-109, the next morning an IL-2, and the next day a Yak 1B ... it's not very good to be a good driver. Yes, you will fly a little bit of everything, but you will not be a specialist in any plane. It is impossible to learn all the operations and systems of all the planes of a combat simulator, so one day I decided to fly only German planes, above all the Bf 109, and sometimes the FW-190 and the Bf-110.

 

BUT IT IS NOT FANATISM OF A BANDO OF A REALITY OF THE REAL WAR. I have a library full of WWII general aviation books, and only a few are from the Luftwaffe. 

 

regards

Edited February 16, 2018 by 1/JSpan_Guerrero

[Nocke]

It seems there is nothing to be done.

I think the "community" here can be divided into two groups: Those, who see it as a game we are playing together, and those who are here for winning and competition.

The latter just pick the best airplanes available, train and specialize on them, and then go sealclubbing and feeding their stats.

Others do it for fun and playing(!) together. If needed, they switch sides to balance, so everybody can have fun. They take an unknown plane to get to know it,

not minding the fact that they will not rule flying it, because they lack experience. And because they are NOT ONLY HERE TO WIN.

 

And now, I seriously hope I will be able to never ever utter a single word about balancing here.

I will also stop flying VVS all the time when I enter a server with 20 axis vs 5 VVS. I also feel entitled to fly the german planes I bought from time to time.

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

It seems there is nothing to be done.

I think the "community" here can be divided into two groups: Those, who see it as a game we are playing together, and those who are here for winning and competition.

The latter just pick the best airplanes available, train and specialize on them, and then go sealclubbing and feeding their stats.

Others do it for fun and playing(!) together. If needed, they switch sides to balance, so everybody can have fun. They take an unknown plane to get to know it,

not minding the fact that they will not rule flying it, because they lack experience. And because they are NOT ONLY HERE TO WIN.

 

And now, I seriously hope I will be able to never ever utter a single word about balancing here.

I will also stop flying VVS all the time when I enter a server with 20 axis vs 5 VVS. I also feel entitled to fly the german planes I bought from time to time.

 

Hi Nocke,

 

I do not want this to sound frivolous but for me there are two types of virtual pilots.

 

For example, A and B

 

The A

 

He bought a game of airplanes, and he plays in the air with his plane to other planes. A says to a friend: "We are going to throw, tonight, a" rounds / games "to the game IL-2"

 

The B

 

He bought an air combat simulator and flies missions that simulate, as much as possible, the war history. The B tells a virtual squadmate: "We're going to fly, tonight, a couple of missions with our squadmates."

 

It seems silly but there is a small nuance in the difference between "Game" and "Simulator"

 

In any case, for me the ideal to simulate flights of aircraft that were historical, is not to fly in competitions in servers of human equipment. Humans do not like being at a disadvantage. No one likes to lose.

 

The real simulation would be to do field missions without humans, only AI but moderately intelligent AI. IA planes have no problem being less or more, nor being at a disadvantage.

 

The best missions that I have flown in my life as a virtual pilot are hand-made missions following a historical script as in the books. And I do not care if I'm a majority or a minority.

 

In fact I am one of those who are looking forward to the famous "career mode" along with Kuban.

 

regards

[Nocke]

Well .... I said I did not want to say anything anymore about this .... but then you seem to be a friendly person in the end, and it would be rather unfriendly not to answer anymore ...so lets give it another try:

 

It does not matter if you label it a game, or a simulation. In fact, it IS a game. Unless you are doing this as part of a scientific research project. Are you? I suppose you are not. You are gaming. Of course for each of us its a different game,

but it IS a game. Actually I do not even see why it should make a difference at all if you call it a simulation or a game. Its not up to you to decide what it should be for anybody. However, with your attitude, you are imposing something to others.

We come together here like in a Kindergarten, and find a set of toys. Blue toys, and red toys. On average, the blue toys are a little better than the red ones, or for whatever reasons more attractive to a majority of players. If you now say "oh I am here in a simulation business which requires that I take only the blue toys, please feel free to take the remaining red ones" - well, thats just not nice.You are forcing the others to take what remains, or the game is over. Thats asymmetrical. Can you understand the problem I am having with that?

Its more and more becoming problem to me, because I am doing this flight simulator stuff also for like 15(?) years now, and it DOES NOT CHANGE. ALWAYS THE SAME. There are axis only pilots, and on the other hand people who fly both. Very very few I have seen flying VVS only, voluntarily.

When I started going online, I just went always on the side with less players, in my world thats just the normal thing to do in a game. However, if you do that in flight sims, you end up as a practically VVS only pilot, AUTOMATICALLY. Without really having chosen that. Just to help the axis only pilots having some fun, in the end. On top, then you end up getting lablelled as a "red" pilot - because many here apparently are fixated to the idea that someone here has to be a "blue" or "red" pilot.

Can you somehow understand the problem?

We, "the others", are NOT only here to provide you with a suitable simulation environment for your axis identity.

[Nocke]

one more idea just came to my mind: You say you want to do a historical simulation. Well, go ahead. Create a scenario with a 3:1, 5:1, later 10:1 numerical superiority FOR THE VVS. Then, enjoy your simulation ...

[Willy__]

 

 

one more idea just came to my mind: You say you want to do a historical simulation. Well, go ahead. Create a scenario with a 3:1, 5:1, later 10:1 numerical superiority FOR THE VVS. Then, enjoy your simulation ...

 

While you are at it lets put rookies/noobs only and no-comms for the VVS....

 

      

[-SF-Disarray]

Nocke, I don't think the problem is that they do not understand the problem, you'd have to be damn thick to not understand the problem. They just don't care. For them it is your problem so they don't need to do anything. Ultimately this comes down to selfishness in so far as I can tell. Of course there are other 'reasons' I've seen for not flying Soviet planes; my favorite one so far is, and I quote, "I don't fly red because communism is evil." But those people are just silly if you ask me. 

[KG200_Volker]

Guys I am too think to understand? All these posts for balance..? I mean all I want is in KGs server (even thow it’s empty 99% of the time is people to have a chance to find a spot if they want to fly red. Why some find it crazy to have slots for both teams, it’s like nagging because there is a limit for total players too.

 

Oh, Does anybody have an answer to my question about the setup of balance.cfg file?

 

Second Oh, right now in my ExtremE humble opinion we have a multiplayer system that forces different mindset of pilots to fly in the same arena. The ones that want to fly the mission and the ones that want to grinde AKs or GKs, also the penalties for loosing your plane or life are such that usually you ll be more careless. The “die and re-fly” concept is nice for some but for me also gives a sense of an FPS shooter kind of thing. I am not saying that it’s bad buuut it tends to turn the simulation flying less.

 

I was critizided badly in other posts about this when I said that the old coop style online wars (driven through Hypperlobby) where very good beacause it separates the people that want to fly for the mission and I hope that the new coop that comes with the patch will give life to the old VEF and other types of online wars that it was important for all the pilots in the team you choose to fly for to be sucsefull.

Edited February 17, 2018 by KG200_Volker

[coconut]

 

 

My question what should I set in order to have a lock for a coalition for half of the servers capacity. Lets say for 50 pilots.

MinActivePlayers = 24
PowerDiff = 1.0
PowerRatio = 1.01
 

Should almost achieve that. The almost part is that you could have 24 Germans in the air and 26 looking at the map waiting for an airfield to become available, and 0 Russians.

[KG200_Volker]

One more time thank you Coconut.

[Nocke]

Sorry Volker for participating in derailing your thread. I had let myself getting triggered, and forgot completely about your initial post.

edit: sorry butcher

Edited February 17, 2018 by 216th_Nocke

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

Well! As I have already commented, I feel if my comments offend someone I am very sorry, it is not my intention to force anyone to think like me.

 

I have already said that the system of meetings / competitions on-line on servers 24/7 a week, and where the important factor is occupying the territory of the opponent is not ideal for everyone to agree. To me personally the subject statistics, I care but as to any human being. It gives an incentive to the competition, that's why they get on, but it does not drive me crazy, I'm not angry if my statistics are bad. And if a map is lost or won I do not care much, it does not matter to me. As you say in the end it's a game.

 

You can see that, for example, in TAW my statistics are bad, quite bad, and I do not consider myself a bad pilot. Only I often serve as a bomber escort and my mission is to bring them home safely, and this does not give you points / statistics. Or for example make a CAP on an important goal to defend and if no enemy comes because it is to return home empty of points. Other times I help in a dogfight, but I never steal a knock down of another pilot, (I get robbed many) with which that is also zero points, and so many more things. I try to behave like a pilot I would do in reality, collaborating with my flying friends.

 

What many other participants comment, is that the ideal would be an HL with forty slot for each side. This would solve the equality in blue and red, but according to my years flying in competitions then there would be another different discussion. For example, if the aircraft on the blue side or red are better than the others ... In short this is a very long story, endless and too discussed.

 

It is also very difficult for me to express well what I want to say in English without misunderstandings, since the culprit is Google.

 

A cordial greeting to everyone

 

PS: This I think will be my last post in this thread.

Edited February 17, 2018 by 1/JSpan_Guerrero

[7.GShAP/Silas]

While you are at it lets put rookies/noobs only and no-comms for the VVS....

 

      

 

 

 

Things weren't like 1941 forever.

[Alonzo]

On 1/17/2018 at 2:10 PM, coconut said:

That's the only thing you need to edit. The stuff at the end was documentation, not actual code. I don't think you are supposed to change it.

I have set my server to something like PowerDiff = 6, because at most 2 planes difference when you have 20+ planes is too strict IMHO.

I have also raised PowerRatio to 2. A ratio of 2:1 isn't too bad, it's normally manageable. You want enough room to let 5 people join a side once, and keep excessive imbalance away.

 

Thread necro because it has only just been brought to my attention that this config file exists. Thanks for the helpful comments in this thread, we're going to try loose coalition balancing on CB and see how it goes.

[TWC_Ace]

Yep, its a problem because chivalry almost deceasen amongst IL2 community, in general.

Lately I fly often on combatbox because they have a system where the bases are locking on the side which has "too much" players compared to the enemy team. Not only that but they have penalty for players who exits when their plane is badly damaged. Unfortunately it is necerssary because some people cannot change their mindset and behave like air knights.

[Alonzo]

On 10/19/2020 at 10:41 AM, Alonzo said:

Thread necro because it has only just been brought to my attention that this config file exists. Thanks for the helpful comments in this thread, we're going to try loose coalition balancing on CB and see how it goes.

 

Unfortunately the 'loose' coalition balancing seems to be bugged (or we got the config wrong). Switching it on implemented strict coalition balancing, i.e. you cannot join the side with more players. We'll investigate and see if it's a bug in the balancer or misconfiguration on our part.

 

If anyone has this working on their server, I'd love to hear about it. We don't want to do anything fancy, really, just ensure one side cannot vastly outnumber the other.

[squidboi]

really be nice to get a system like this. its so garbage to see a server with 30 players then you see the teams are balanced something like 22-8 for one side. It makes it no fun for anyone. No body wants to join a team with an easy victory because they simply have double the firepower. Similarly, no one wants to be a measly +1 on the side that is getting trounced in numbers. Theres only so much one person can do to help in those situations. So when I see that, I wait to join until it balances out. I see no reason why one side should ever be +5 or more than another, especially since most clans operate in small groups and the game and server stability seems to go down if you operate in mass groups. 

[super-truite]

On 10/21/2020 at 5:00 PM, Alonzo said:

 

Unfortunately the 'loose' coalition balancing seems to be bugged (or we got the config wrong). Switching it on implemented strict coalition balancing, i.e. you cannot join the side with more players. We'll investigate and see if it's a bug in the balancer or misconfiguration on our part.

 

If anyone has this working on their server, I'd love to hear about it. We don't want to do anything fancy, really, just ensure one side cannot vastly outnumber the other.

any progress on that? 
I might activate it on my server and noticed that the CBalancer.cfg seems to not be updated. For tanks for instance, I see those only:

script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_T34-76STZ.txt"
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_PzIII-L.txt",
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_BA64.txt", 

(same for planes)

I guess we need to get the exhaustive list of planes/tanks in this format to get it working ?
It seems to be the path in the advanced vehicle properties in the mission editor with capitalized letters for the plane/tank identifier.
For playable tanks only, it might look like this then ?

script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_T34-76STZ.txt", 0.4
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_PzIII-L.txt", 0.3
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_BA64.txt", 0.05
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_PZV-D.txt", 0.8
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_PzIII-M.txt", 0.3
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_SU122.txt", 0.2
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_SDKFZ184.txt", 1.0
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_SDKFZ10-5.txt", 0.05
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_SU152.txt", 0.7
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_PZVI-H1.txt", 1.0
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_M4A2.txt", 0.5
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_KV1S.txt", 0.5
script = "luascripts/worldobjects/vehicles/_GAZ-MM-72K.txt", 0.05