VKB Gladiator II vs Thrustmaster T16000

[GP*]

I'm looking for a simple, small desktop setup to replace my HOTAS / rudder pedal setup I've been using for the last 2 years. This means going back to a twist stick, but for the time being that's fine.

 

These two seem to be the best bang-for-your-buck on the market right now -- both under $100 but reasonably high quality. I have two concerns, though:

 

- T16000 is (reportedly) of good quality, but numerous people mention the twist axis is quite fragile. Any experience with this?

 

- VKB looks top notch, and I like the K12 styling, but it looks like there's very little stick resistance. I had a CH products stick that I hated because it offered so little resistance. I'm willing to accept less resistance than the Warthog (which I loved), but nothing as "soft" as a CH stick. Any thoughts / experience with this?

 

I'm also open to any other considerations. Thanks!

[Sokol1]

I have a T.16000M and their "twist" work OK for around ~6 mounts, then start spike.

 

T.16000M indeed is a "heavy" to move stick - some users do that X-45 spring MOD in T.16000M, tie two spring coils together.

 

Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" follow CH recipe in matter of Gimbal.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Sokol1

[WWGriphos]

I've had two T.16000M joysticks.  Love their precision, less happy with the detent force (although it is better than the CH Fighterstick) and never did like the button arrangement.  The base buttons often stuck or failed to register a press on both of mine (both bought new).  

 

I had the regular Gladiator II for a bit, then got the II Pro.  I really, really, like the feel and lack of detent on the Pro, but it is pricey.  

 

The detent on the regular Gladiator was perhaps a bit less than the T.16000M.  Haven't had either Gladiator long enough to testify to endurance, but it seems very well made to me, with sensors similar in resolution to the TM stick.  Of the two, I'd get the Gladiator, myself.  Just the ergonomics and aesthetics of it are enough to prefer it, and I believe it's at least as good, if not better, in quality as the TM.  

[Boaty-McBoatface]

How long did your 2 t16k stick's rudder axes last without spiking may I ask?

 

I just got one of these sticks and they are truly fantastic, but I'm wondering if that rudder axis will start to spike eventually and if the pot is easy to access and clean? Having said that though, the axis certainly doesn't feel fragile and the precision is so good, without deadzone, that it's hard to imagine it failing.

 

Sokol1, do you have experience cleaning the rudder pot on this device?

 

Regards

Edited January 9, 2018 by boaty_McBoatface

[Sokol1]

No, I don't clean their pot - I consider this cleanup just a palliative, the problem will return soon and more worse, and to do properly clean require disassembly pot case, and this small plastic pot may don't survive this "surgery".

 

But  after this spikes I start use rudder pedal and after other joystick.

 

This T.16000M is actually partially disassembled, and reach their twist pot is easy.

The idea was do 'MOD' in the grip, migrating all buttons from base to top, but happens that

I have more stick's than I can use and ending forget about the poor T.16K.

[GP*]

I've had two T.16000M joysticks.  Love their precision, less happy with the detent force (although it is better than the CH Fighterstick) and never did like the button arrangement.  The base buttons often stuck or failed to register a press on both of mine (both bought new).  

 

I had the regular Gladiator II for a bit, then got the II Pro.  I really, really, like the feel and lack of detent on the Pro, but it is pricey.  

 

The detent on the regular Gladiator was perhaps a bit less than the T.16000M.  Haven't had either Gladiator long enough to testify to endurance, but it seems very well made to me, with sensors similar in resolution to the TM stick.  Of the two, I'd get the Gladiator, myself.  Just the ergonomics and aesthetics of it are enough to prefer it, and I believe it's at least as good, if not better, in quality as the TM.  

 

Good to hear from someone who's had both. The price of the Pro isn't keeping me away honestly; right now I want to simplify things and use a twist stick. I may go back to rudder pedals in the future, just not for the time being. 

 

Does the Gladiator II at least offer a "reasonable" amount of resistance? Subjective, I know, but I'm hoping it's not so "smooth" that it feels like a wet noodle.

[Boaty-McBoatface]

One thing to note about the T16000 is the stick itself is butter smooth for movement, but the twist axis is quite firm in it's resistance. Personal preference but For me this is great as it stops the plane from wallowing about inadvertently on the rudder axis when you are moving the stick around, and in general I think added stiffness on the rudder twist just makes it far more precise. I think real thought has been put into the design of this stick and ergonomics aside, the feel of control is just sensational.

Edited January 9, 2018 by boaty_McBoatface

[WWGriphos]

The T16kM isn’t floppy, but it isn’t stiff, either. I don’t have the regular Glad II anymore, but trying out the TM again just now, I’d say the stick return spring forces are stronger on it. It certainly has a much more pronounced detent, more like the CH. I never liked the feel of the TM, but I did like its precision.

 

With the Glad II, I liked both the feel and the less noticeable detent. If it were me (subjective preference) I’d go with the VKB. The return centering force on the VKB seems more damped.

 

Here’s an interesting comparison: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlZHE4ZY-I

Edited January 9, 2018 by WWGriphos

[GP*]

Thanks for all the helpful information, everyone. I plan on buying the Gladiator II; I'll write up my impressions.

[Sokol1]

The return centering force on the VKB seems more damped.

 

Here’s an interesting comparison: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlZHE4ZY-I

 

 

Yes, VKB  Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" has grooves in gimbal pivots with dampening grease for minimize the spring back effect.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_07_2016/post-979-0-37463600-1468644625.jpg

Edited January 11, 2018 by Sokol1

[SJ_Butcher]

Vkb all the way, amazing joy, incredible accurate and nice joy

[BP_Lizard]

I did the “rubber band mod” on my CH stick. The resistance is just right and feels great.

By any chance that you live in the L.A. area, there’s a T 16000 + rudder pedals listed on Craigslist for $120. Dunno if that’s a good deal. (No affiliation to the seller)

[GP*]

I did the “rubber band mod” on my CH stick. The resistance is just right and feels great.

By any chance that you live in the L.A. area, there’s a T 16000 + rudder pedals listed on Craigslist for $120. Dunno if that’s a good deal. (No affiliation to the seller)

 

 

I live on the opposite coast . Thanks though!

[ITAF_Rani]

Hi , I would Know if the VKB Gladiator II has now has  a better quality in plastic material and if  the trigger is resistant to break.

In your opinion Gladiator II is more accurate than Microsoft FFb 2 ?

 

Many txs

[Sokol1]

Hi , I would Know if the VKB Gladiator II has now has  a better quality in plastic material and if  the trigger is resistant to break.

 

Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" has their trigger made in semi-flexible plastic, to avoid repeat cases of broken trigger in some units (~3%) of previous version.

 

A metal version of this trigger is available as optional.

 

 

AFAIK - No cases of other parts broken happen in normal use.

[Thad]

The T16kM isn’t floppy, but it isn’t stiff, either. I don’t have the regular Glad II anymore, but trying out the TM again just now, I’d say the stick return spring forces are stronger on it. It certainly has a much more pronounced detent, more like the CH. I never liked the feel of the TM, but I did like its precision.

 

With the Glad II, I liked both the feel and the less noticeable detent. If it were me (subjective preference) I’d go with the VKB. The return centering force on the VKB seems more damped.

 

Here’s an interesting comparison: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GhlZHE4ZY-I

 

Salutations, and please excuse my ignorance... but what does 'detent' mean.

Is that how strong the return to center force of the stick is?

[Sokol1]

... but what does 'detent' mean.

Is that how strong the return to center force of the stick is?

 

This "detent" is the "lock" that joystick have in center position due springs effect, you can feel and hear this as the "clunk" when joystick is returned fast for center position,

 

or cross fast this center position from left to right or front to rear or vice versa, and is caused by gimbal design. See in the above linked video VKB x T.16000M.

 

All joystick gimbal, due the need of use springs for center has this "detent" suffer from the effect in some degree.

 

This "clunck" feel/sound is more pronounced in CH joysticks gimbal - an old 1990's design, but their light springs don't cause "stiction" like happens in Saitek and T.16000M/Warthog gimbal, that sometimes 

make necessary apply more force over grip for leave the center position, than the force need for move after center position, this impair the control over the virtual plane, specially during aim and is very annoying 

in (virtual) helicopter flight.

 

This so-called "NextGen" gimbal used by VKB, VirPil, BRD address this center issue using CAM mechanism, what allow minimize the effect - depends on CAM profile and springs force.

And as everyone feel the things different, their offer three different CAM profiles and different springs.

[lucasgc]

I bought the VKB gladiator MK II a few years ago, it has been great, but I am now changing to a T16000 for a few reasons:

1. I am left handed, and as much as I enjoy flying with my right, it's not as easy as with my left.

2. I feel like the detent on my gladiator is a bit flimsy and too soft.

3. The throttle lever on the gladiator is too small to provide any precise control.

4. There is a lack of buttons on the grip itself, something that the T16000 doesn't suffer from.

5. I know about the issues with the Z axis on the T16000, but thankfully I am also buying some rudder pedals.

6. The sensor on the gladiator is starting to degrade, which is causing the flight sim to detect inputs without me touching the joystick, in fact I had to assign a huge amount of dead zone to stop this, which makes it really difficult to fly.