Any rumours of a Griffon?

[kendo]

Wow! That photo!

 

Incredible how the beautiful lines and balance of the Mk 1 - close to perfection - can be destroyed so completely.

 

Really turned into quite an ugly bird!

 

Also, I know this is just an effect of perspective in the photo, but it really looks like the right wing is about 2 ft shorter than the left one.....unless it was a special secret modification. Maybe for flipping over V1s...   (joke)

Edited January 7, 2018 by kendo

[ShamrockOneFive]

... I really like clipped Spitfires... guess I'll go hide back in my cave now.

 

It's not just you. I quite like the clipped wing Spitfires but I think only because they are sort of a utilitarian design being meant for roll rate and low altitude ops.

 

The full elliptical is of course stunningly beautiful.

 

There is something about the Griffon engined Spitfires too with the bulges around the engine bay and the enlarged tail. They look meaner in a good way!

[Warpig]

I would be on the side of the clipped wing version for a collectors plane. It would be quite different than the other two Spits that we'll have.

[Finkeren]

I would be on the side of the clipped wing version for a collectors plane. It would be quite different than the other two Spits that we'll have.

That would actually be a good argument in favor of the emasculated version.

[=X51=VC_]

There is something about the Griffon engined Spitfires too with the bulges around the engine bay and the enlarged tail. They look meaner in a good way!

 

In a similar way to how the bulges on the G-6 and -14 add a certain aggression to the look, as do the wider cowlings on the G-10 and K. Also, eliptical wings are nice and all but I'm not such a huge fan of the "pigeon-chest" nose on early Spitfires. The Griffon looks sleeker and meaner for sure, and it sounds it as well! I guess the longer and slightly downward pointing nose makes it look a bit more like a 109 so no surprise I like it. Then again, there are few planes that can't be improved by making the nose longer.

 

That would actually be a good argument in favor of the emasculated version.

 

Yup, perfect way to make all FW pilots fill their cockpits with tears. I'll just scisso... oh... oh #$@&!!!

[ShamrockOneFive]

I would be on the side of the clipped wing version for a collectors plane. It would be quite different than the other two Spits that we'll have.

 

I'm still hoping that clipping the wings is a modification screen option.

 

Similarly I hope to be able to fit C or E type armament/wings.

[wtornado]

I'm also sure they do - it's called common sense . Good luck with finding customers for a 100 bucks non-clickable, simplified-systems airplane for any flight sim platform, combat or civilian.

 

OK, there probably would be a few  , but not enough to make the project profitable (unless we can "convert" some Star Citizen zombies to turn their cashflow to 1CGS and WWII aviation )

I bought a ship in Star Citizen and the last 3.0 update my computer can't even run it anymore without heavy lag.

 

By the time Roberts finishes the SC game in 2040 if I am still alive I will have a (IE 12) 32 core computer with an Nvidia GTX 2060 32Go video card and 128 GIG memory.

 

We will be playing IL-2 Sturmovik ''Battle of the moon'' edition with space ships and flying saucers and 3-4 Species like the Reptilians,the Greys and the Nordics etc, fighting over planet earth

[Venturi]

 

 

Ah, fair enough! In that case, I have the perfect idea for the LW collector to pair with the Mk. XIV: Ta-152!

 

I'm looking forward to the 4g Gmax of the wings on that plane, and lower performance under 6km than the 190D... :D

[s9723]

I'm looking forward to the 4g Gmax of the wings on that plane, and lower performance under 6km than the 190D... :D

 

Are you sure about such low g tolerance? Even A6M zero can tolerate far more than 4g.

[Venturi]

Quite sure...

And the Zero was quite aerobatic.

The Ta-152 was not a super plane. The low-altitude version was more or less equivalent to the 190D, and the high altitude version was optimized for above 30k feet, where the atmosphere does not support high-g loadings. Not to mention, that the high-alt version had main wing spars of steel....

[=X51=VC_]

The Ta-152 was not a super plane.

 

Wasn't implying that it was or that that's why we should get one. I want it because it looks drop-dead awesome and is very cool and unique. And anyway regardless of what altitude it was optimised for there are combat reports of it turning with Typhoons on the deck and it should be at least as fast as a Mustang at most altitudes, so competitive in any case.

[Finkeren]

Ta-152 is ridiculously obscure, not worth bothering with IMHO, especially considering how hard it would be to get reliable info to model it on.

[EAF19_Marsh]

Are you sure about such low g tolerance? Even A6M zero can tolerate far more than 4g.

 

 

That sounds pretty unlikely and I have certainly never seen anything to suggest that it were true. Spitfire 4g sustained turn speed is nominally c. 200mph, and it could certainly sustain a turn at 200 mph and above from a structural perspective.

[Venturi]

Yes, certainly the XIV g-limits were quite higher than that.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Ta-152 is ridiculously obscure, not worth bothering with IMHO, especially considering how hard it would be to get reliable info to model it on.

 

It's not my first choice (I'm still thinking the Ar234 would be ) but I do wonder if the resources would be hard to find or relatively easy to find. A few were captured and documents of everything made by the Allies. They may already have the data along with other FW190 related data. And really the Ta152 is a modified FW190 with longer wings, tails, different engine, etc. It's not a small change but probably less work than a full new model like my proposed Ar234.

 

Of course the Spitfire XIV would probably be a slam dunk once they have done the IX.

[Dakpilot]

Ta-152 is indeed a nice and interesting aircraft but as rare as a Unicorn crossed with an Mokele-mbembe,  with a combat record of 7-10 kills (depending on source) and 4 losses it does not make sense at all unless we are doing fantasy IL-2 1946

 

something I hope does NOT happen until all proper WWII is done, I would even prefer decent Korea before what ifs/prototypes and non serial production aircraft are proposed

 

and  Yes...Get orrf my lawn!   just my personal opinion

 

time would be much better spent on period aircraft that did see more widespread service

 

Griffon Spit would be very good choice for post Bodenplatte release "collector plane" and certainly on my radar

 

 

First ever Griffon Spit, DP 845 first flown November 27 1941

 

Pic is from 43 fitted with the Griffon IV used in Seafire Mk XV

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

 

 

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

And really the Ta152 is a modified FW190 with longer wings, tails, different engine, etc.

 

 

Visually not much; probably FM-wise quite a bit of work...

[=X51=VC_]

Yeah, Ta-152 is a personal favourite but I agree probably a bit rare to make it worth the time investment to develop.

 

Glad so many want to see a Griffon as much as I do though. Reason for the thread derailing I guess was to look for a nice German collector plane to go with it since they seem to come in pairs. Since all the suggestions so far are unicorns to some extent what else is there? 190F-8 I suppose, to really give the Jugs and Tiffies a run for their money in the ground-pounding department!

Edited January 9, 2018 by VC_

[EAF19_Marsh]

I would buy the -152, but it is a little left-field. The Ar-234 would be more useful, but a lot more work than a Mk XIV to make a collector's pair.

 

190A-9 / G series?

[Voidhunger]

I would like to have Ta152 too. If not, I would take Arado

[hames123]

Hopefully they make the quick mission build have more flights of planes in it. You can never get enough Spitfires on your side(8 is not nearly enough).

 

Anyone want to try a 16vs16 between Spitfires and ME 262s?

[ACG_Smokejumper]

... I really like clipped Spitfires... guess I'll go hide back in my cave now.

 

 

I do too bud. I think they look bad ass.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I would buy the -152, but it is a little left-field. The Ar-234 would be more useful, but a lot more work than a Mk XIV to make a collector's pair.

 

190A-9 / G series?

 

Yep! Agreed.

 

On the A-9...interesting... but I don't know if there would be a good reason for it. I mean the A-8 and A-9 are basically the same with an engine swap. Unless I'm forgetting some crucial detail. The A-9 could easily be on the modification list.

[=X51=VC_]

Yep! Agreed.

 

On the A-9...interesting... but I don't know if there would be a good reason for it. I mean the A-8 and A-9 are basically the same with an engine swap. Unless I'm forgetting some crucial detail. The A-9 could easily be on the modification list.

Would the F-8 also bee to similar?

[ShamrockOneFive]

Would the F-8 also bee to similar?

 

As far as I know the A-8 and the F-8 are extremely similar and I think that the reason they chose the A-8 is because they can also do the F-8 at the same time.

[Talisman]

Clip wing Griffon Mk XIV Spit would be great! 

Very in keeping with late war.  If full wing Mk V (Kuban) and IX (BoBP) are already provided, then the clip wing for a 'collectors' aircraft would make good sense and help recognise some of the  Spitfire development stages.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

[EAF19_Marsh]

As far as I know the A-8 and the F-8 are extremely similar and I think that the reason they chose the A-8 is because they can also do the F-8 at the same time.

 

 

Yes, suspect you are right. Any other ideas about a Mk XIV collector-pack partnership?

 

He 162....?

[hames123]

ME 410. Unless that goes with the Mosquito.

Edited January 10, 2018 by hames123

[EAF19_Marsh]

ME 410. Unless that goes with the Mosquito.

 

 

 

I''d buy it. Maybe a late Ju.88 version would be the easiest from a work-load perspective? Not an equivalent to a fighter, but like the Spitfire allowing some porting of work already done rather than a scratch-built aircraft.

[SJ_Butcher]

TA 152 is a must in game for me, Love the FW190 and all their variants

[Royal_Flight]

ME 410. Unless that goes with the Mosquito.

Yes.

 

I''d buy it. Maybe a late Ju.88 version would be the easiest from a work-load perspective? Not an equivalent to a fighter, but like the Spitfire allowing some porting of work already done rather than a scratch-built aircraft.

Or this. I'd prefer a 410 if I'm honest, but a late Ju 88 wouldn't go amiss. Even a C model would be good, and add a lot of utility in other theatres.

 

Mainly though it's the Mosquito that's the star of the show. It needs to be included in BoBo or the set won't be complete.

[Warpig]

I would love to see a 410 introduced. The more guns the better!

[Tomsk]

... I really like clipped Spitfires... guess I'll go hide back in my cave now.

 

What I was never sure of was whether clipping the wings actually did significantly improve the roll rate. That was clearly the idea, but some sources say that in practice it actually didn't make any real difference *shrugs*. I think the full wing Spitfires look better, but I'll take the clipped wings if they roll better!

 

Either way I think a Spit XIV would make an excellent additional collectors plane, clipped wings or otherwise

Edited January 10, 2018 by Tomsk

[EAF19_Marsh]

Griffon Spitfire? They didn't see much service in 1944 and 45 like the Mark 9 Spitfire. That would be stupid to add them

 

 

 

400-500 on RAF strength, similar to Tempest V, but only about 5 squadrons operating in Europe. Not stupid, but a lower priority than the IX / XVI.

[Finkeren]

Griffon Spitfire? They didn't see much service in 1944 and 45 like the Mark 9 Spitfire. That would be stupid to add them.

 

If you add Griffon spit you can add P51H... that would be nearly the same no sense or Natter for germans. lulz

There were close to 1000 Mk. XIVs built and they saw extensive use by the 2nd tactical air force. By your metric, the Me 262 is just as obscure.

[Warpig]

I think what makes the Griffons so great is they were being built by the winners, who at that time had the resources, factories, and manpower around to advance their aircraft technology.

 

Compare that to Germany who was bogged down by a losing war, and depletion of research and resources.

 

So really, it's no great stretch to realize why the Griffon Spits outclass the axis fighters in a way that makes the matchup greatly one-sided in a gaming environment. This is why I agree that it would be a mistake to add the Griffons in game. It's just not a fun matchup for the axis. It's far too one-sided.

[Tomsk]

This is why I agree that it would be a mistake to add the Griffons in game. It's just not a fun matchup for the axis. It's far too one-sided.

 

So fly it against the Me-262 ... Being serious we already have at least one plane that will need to be restricted in MP for balance reasons, so a Mk XIV seems fine to me ...

[Warpig]

So fly it against the Me-262 ... Being serious we already have at least one plane that will need to be restricted in MP for balance reasons, so a Mk XIV seems fine to me ...

Haha the 262 vs a Griffon. The 262 will never get guns on target.

[Tomsk]

Haha the 262 vs a Griffon. The 262 will never get guns on target.

 

Well perhaps, but in many ways it's a similar sort of match up to a Zero versus a P-38. The zero turns better, but the P-38 is much faster. In theory a Zero can always dodge a BnZ attack from a P-38 ... in practice, the Zero wasn't really much of a match for it.

[Warpig]

Well perhaps, but in many ways it's a similar sort of match up to a Zero versus a P-38. The zero turns better, but the P-38 is much faster. In theory a Zero can always dodge a BnZ attack from a P-38 ... in practice, the Zero wasn't really much of a match for it.

I wouldn't disagree with that.

 

This is all just my opinions, and what I believe would make a fun matchup. I simply think the Griffons outclass the axis by too much, that's all.