Training

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

What I'd like to see, and this goes more to the community than the developer, is a couple of good training sites. Dedicated training sites. There was one for the old IL2 (cant remember the name and my schedule never meshed with their very strict school times) and my former squad always talked about a pure training server but it never materialized. A server dedicated to BFM a couple nights a week and ACM the rest of the time. A two place advance trainer(s) would be nice but not absolutely vital. Somewhere an experienced wingman can walk a rookie through ACM and basic gunnery + deflection shooting + bomber intercept. Where invincible would be on for all for, say, an hour to practice intercept, cutting the corner, setting up attack runs, teamwork, deflections, etc. Then an hour of noob v noob to practice what they've learned. Make better pilots, encourage teamwork, make new friends and not worry about scores or promotions. How expensive/difficult would it be to set this up?

Edited May 3, 2013 by HerrMurf

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Instead of a server, Training COOP's are better suited to this...quick to run...no set up time.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I've never done a COOP. Can you expound? I know COOPs were very dear to your heart in another forum. What are the advantages over a server? If a server isn't particularly expensive/technically difficult I'd consider building a training wing and getting a few to staff and "moderate it." Gonna need a few instructor pilots and a new TS server.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Imagine you want to practice a BnZ bounce by 109s on some  i16's...

 

If you were using a server you would have to set up the bounce ... for both sets of aircraft, even if you air start your going to have to fly to the target area, get in position and wait for the 109s to get into position and then carry out the training, after the flight if you want to go again you have to go through the process again...it all takes time.

 

If you use a COOP, you can set up the mission with both sets of aircraft in position, maybe 30 secs away...and away you go, if you want to try it again it takes 1-2 mins to set up.

 

If you have the missions you can get through much more training in less time, you can set up the mission anyway you want, for any combat scenario you can think of.

 

Of course this is if the COOP's are set up like IL2.

 

I hope BOS is as easy to set up

[Bearcat]

You might be thinking of Joint Ops. Bear in mind that Joint Ops was a total community made thing. That was a part of the beauty of IL2. That sim was/is so revolutionary on so may levels. Because it was not moddable for it's first 5 years of life it spawned a whole host of other very creative things from Stab, to the DCG, Mission Mate, UQMG, IL2 Joy, Sturmolog, IL2 Manager,  and literally hundreds of other utilities and tools from skinning to mission building and most points in between. I hope that IL2: BoS has a similar impact  on the genre and even if it is not quite that impactfull I sincerely hope that it takes us to that next level that so many of us have been hoping for for quite some time now. The creativity is still out there and hopefully some of that can be transferred to this new series.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Yes, Joint Ops was the outfit!

 

Great idea on their part and I very much wanted to partake but the timing just wasnt there. I think I'd like to form a similar outfit if I can find a half dozen or more instructor pilots and the cost of maintaining the server isn't out of reach. Like I said, I'd like to have a couple of days (Tu/Th) of BFM, CEM, pattern work, takeoffs, landings, formation flying and the like. The rest of the time (M,W,F) I'd like to to utilize for ACM, intercept, deflection shooting, advanced flight maneuvers, team tactics, weaves, finger four, break tactics, etc. An hour or so of instruction with a leader and student in a no damage environment so you can get your hits on without anyone really (virtually) risking anything. Then an hour or so with damage on for some noob v noob combat. Alternating every hour - no real Red v Blue during the training hours. Just an open server during non-training hours. If successful then open it up to the mud movers and teach (learn for me) ground attack and bomber work.

 

I don't think you'd have to set up much when the training flights are mostly one to one or in pairs - either together or against. Just have to have a few airfields in close proximity on smaller maps. The IP's would have to communicate with each other. "Don't bounce us for a bit. We're going to practice rolling scissors and yo-yo's for ten minutes."

 

I'd want everyone on TS and I already rent a TS server. Is the cost of server rental to host a game site similar to my TS rental fee's? How much expertise to host a training site? If it was a fun and healthy way to introduce people to the game I'd be willing to take it on. Gotta figure out a way to staff/manage/moderate it as well. Could even make it a place for established teams to send their recruits to learn the basics before jumping in the deep end of the pool. No recruiting on the site would have to be enforced.

 

Weekends probably just open the server up for anyone to play on big maps. Saturdays = historical plane sets. Sundays = all aircraft.

Edited December 27, 2012 by HerrMurf

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Oh, and make it a by appointment or drop in. You can just drop in with your established IP! If it's your first time in the server look around for an available IP telling war stories on TS. Not a rigid schedule like Joint Ops. Just a pair goes up for flight instruction like in a real life 152. Maybe a more structured day or two of group lessons later on if it grows legs.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The community is amazing for this kind of thing. Between the multiplayer help and single player campaign help (like Straight from the Farm) we had a lot of resources available for new players.

 

It'd be nice if the game somehow either incorporated some sort of basic training system or provided a way for people to get community help either via a dedicated forum or some other method I haven't dreamt up yet. Flight sims are daunting even with difficulty level controls. I'm sure the devs know this but it'd be good to think about some sort of system.

[nynek]

You might be thinking of Joint Ops. Bear in mind that Joint Ops was a total community made thing. That was a part of the beauty of IL2. That sim was/is so revolutionary on so may levels. Because it was not moddable for it's first 5 years of life it spawned a whole host of other very creative things from Stab, to the DCG, Mission Mate, UQMG, IL2 Joy, Sturmolog, IL2 Manager,  and literally hundreds of other utilities and tools from skinning to mission building and most points in between. I hope that IL2: BoS has a similar impact  on the genre and even if it is not quite that impactfull I sincerely hope that it takes us to that next level that so many of us have been hoping for for quite some time now. The creativity is still out there and hopefully some of that can be transferred to this new series.

 

Salute from WW456

[danjama]

It's amazing to see the excitement for this project. We haven't even had a solid aircraft list yet, and we're thinking about training B)

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I'd like to get this organized when the time comes. If COOP seems like a better route I'm in for that as well. Anyone know the cost of a ROF server? Id like to hear some input on the technical side. I'd love to teach the BFM and CEM. I'll be a student of the ACM side

 

I'll take the credit for the big picture. Now I need some technical expertise and some instructor pilots to get this thing moving......when the time comes!

[Bearcat]

It's amazing to see the excitement for this project. We haven't even had a solid aircraft list yet, and we're thinking about training B)

 

Yes it is.. and .. I know this may be out of place in a way.. but we owe a lot of that to IL2..

 

It is the fact that BoS hints at fulfilling the promise of a next generation IL2 that CoD, regardless to how great it was or the potential it had  just did not do that accounts for much of the excitement. Nothing has scratched that itch. Not Wop.. Not WT. Nothing.. not CoD or RoF, as satisfying as they may be..... and that is what we all have been craving since around 2006 ... a next generation IL2. The fact that so many of us for so long looked forward to the nextgen IL2 that was hinted at with SoW:BoB  and never realized it has a lot to do with the emptiness that so may of us felt.. RoF is nice! It is very good! It went through an evolution of sorts... but it is still not Messerschmits and Spits, Mustangs and Butcher Birds, Lavochkins and Ju88s locked in a virtual life and death struggle on a nextgen engine and that's what most of us want... All this was hinted at in CoD up to the very last update concerning BoM... but that has fallen through and the initial shock of that is settling in for some and is  the cause of much of the angst on these boards over the past few weeks. This outcome was long awaited and anticipated for others, hence the other side of that angst ..... but the bottom line is that BoS has rekindled that fire.. that expectation.

 

That's the truth, and that's why so many folks are so excited about all this and why it is so imperative that the developers see this ... and follow through. Based on the way this is all panning out and what I know about the teams involved I am confident that they will do just that in a big way. That notion is shared by many.. and that adds to the excitement. It won't be exactly like I or others expect or hope for.. but it will be what we needed as flight sim junkies with a penchant for Warbirds and Merlins.. and the fast paced yet up close and personal sim action that IL2 gave us all in it's prime yet on that next level that has yet to be fully realized in the manner and for the masses that IL2 scratched that itch and redefined it. 

 

IL2 was the benchmark.. and for some of us it still is whether we will admit it or not. The failures of all the new products from CoD to War Thunder were all in some way directly or indirectly related to something we got or did not get in IL2 ... modded or un modded whether that is the online versatility or the mission builder or the skinning, or the interface, or whatever.. much of our love or hate for those offerings was juxtaposed against IL2 and the fact that this 11 year old sim can do it so... you better be at least as xxx as IL2..... Unspoken.. but felt for sure.

 

In my opinion we should not forget that. That IL2 connection, and that is another thing that makes me so hopeful about BoS, that connection. Whether at all or to what degree  BoS "measures Up" of course remains to be seen but based on all the circumstances.. from the rise and fall of SoWBoB/IL2CoD to all the pretenders to the throne that have reared their heads over the past few years I think my faith is well placed. I thought it was well placed with Oleg and 1C too.. but looking back with hindsight the signs were there within a year or two after the first announcements of SoW:BoB. It is what it is.. it was what it was.. I am confident that 1c777 will be able to deliver because from where I sit and based on what they have told us.. the mistakes have been made .. and they have no intentions whatsoever of repeating them.

[Heywooood]

iL2Skins...CanonUK skins...Capt.Farrell skins...I know there were many more equally talented artists making historically accurate and aesthetically amazing repaints for the old sim....

 

hopefully new sites will crop up for this new one...once its rolling...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I agree about lineage, excitement and skins but lets no go too far afield of the original topic; Training

[EAF_Apollo]

Hi. I see you like the idea of training. You are not alone in this. I hope you can get something going on as this would be great for squads that have new recruits. A place to send them for primary training. We do this now in our squad and we are currently in the process of upgrading our training program. But it would be nice to be able to hand over the Primary part to a program like you are suggesting, so we can focus on BFM/ACM and GND Attack. If you need any help just ask. If I'm available I'll gladly help. May be able to share what works, or doesn't work for us. It is quite a huge undertaking, but at the same time rewarding.

 

Cheers,

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I very much like the idea of training. I originally was thinking it would be JUST a place for beginner/independent pilots to come, meet up with an instructor and start training. I recently thought it would be good to do that but also make it a place for established squadrons to send their newest pilots for BFM and CEM on a couple of scheduled nights. Really make it more of a community effort. Draw from the experts in the various squadrons as IP's as well. A way to exchange ideas and make rookies welcome before throwing them to the wolves (Wulfs?   )

 

I envision a server where an IP and a student can take to the skies to practice BFM, shoot some takeoffs and landings then make gun runs on each other to practice offensive and defensive maneuvering. All the while being safe from guys just running up scores. On alternating hours, or some other schedule, make the server open for combat. On the weekends make it a noob server, let them duke it out and occasionally be Wulf food. Plus an advance night or two for ACM where I/we can learn more from some good pilots.

 

I'm still fleshing out the concept. So, all ideas are welcome at the moment. So are any pilots looking/willing to be IP's and/or admins. Gonna need a website for communication, now that I'm thinking about it, but I can handle that. I already rent a TS server.

Edited January 1, 2013 by HerrMurf

[Doogerie]

offline intracive traing would be a good addtion

Edited January 4, 2013 by Doogerie

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Agreed but with time and financial constraints I seriously doubt this will be a feature of the initial release. Plus, human instructors/interaction would be both more fluid/able to address specific training needs and more beneficial to the overall community IMHO.

[Rjel]

The one thing I really enjoyed in CoD was the TigerMoth training missions. In particular the landing mission with the instructor barking in my ear. I thought the "guides" to use in setting up the landing were an excellent idea. I'd like to see something similar in the new game especially if it could be expanded to be useable with all flyables. I know a lot of WWII ear fighters didn't have a trainer versions though some did, I could live with the compromise. Going back to the original IL-2, greasing a good landing brought me nearly as much joy as nailing some bogey.

[dburne]

Regarding training - I am speaking from an offline flyer point of view. And from what I have read, the vast majority of folks especially new to simming, fly offline.

Imho, the success and future of flight sims such as these, requires enticing new blood into the hobby. I think too often, that new blood that says hey that looks interesting, and tries to get into it, finds it too difficult for the early stages of learning the sim, and shelves it never to return. Sure we experienced flight simmers, that have been doing this a long time, do not find it so hard - but eventually we go away , and if not at least being replaced with new blood, the market will just keep shrinking.

 

What I would like to see, are some good interactive training missions built into the sim. 1C-MG attempted this, with CLOD, but it was only for taking off , flying around, and landing - and was pretty weak, almost like it was added quickly as an afterthought.

ED , with DCS-A10C, did a reasonably good set of interactive training missions - and it really needed it, with the learning curve of that sim being so steep.

 

I think it would be nice, and a benefit to have especially for newer players, to have some decent interactive training missions, covering not only the basics of flying, but weapons, engine management, navigation , etc.

Perhaps asking too much I don't know, imho anything that helps get new players into it, and keep them into it, is a good thing.

[-NW-ChiefRedCloud]

Well we have our New Wings Virtual Flight Training over on Rise of Flight  where all are welcome http://newwingstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1246&p=4824&sid=d112296284bbd813d4e132c3c69edc85#p4824 . But, Yes, Joint Ops is an excellent choice for training. I do not know if they cover CloD though.

 

Edited January 5, 2013 by ChiefRedCloud

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Chief,

 

I'll check it out this week and be in touch later!

[Bearcat]

Regarding training - I am speaking from an offline flyer point of view. And from what I have read, the vast majority of folks especially new to simming, fly offline.

Imho, the success and future of flight sims such as these, requires enticing new blood into the hobby. I think too often, that new blood that says hey that looks interesting, and tries to get into it, finds it too difficult for the early stages of learning the sim, and shelves it never to return. Sure we experienced flight simmers, that have been doing this a long time, do not find it so hard - but eventually we go away , and if not at least being replaced with new blood, the market will just keep shrinking.

 

What I would like to see, are some good interactive training missions built into the sim. 1C-MG attempted this, with CLOD, but it was only for taking off , flying around, and landing - and was pretty weak, almost like it was added quickly as an afterthought.

ED , with DCS-A10C, did a reasonably good set of interactive training missions - and it really needed it, with the learning curve of that sim being so steep.

 

I think it would be nice, and a benefit to have especially for newer players, to have some decent interactive training missions, covering not only the basics of flying, but weapons, engine management, navigation , etc.

Perhaps asking too much I don't know, imho anything that helps get new players into it, and keep them into it, is a good thing.

This can and hopefully will be done by someone in the community. Look at ZC's training mission pack Straight from the Farm? So much of the success of BoS will depend not as much on what it has in it upon release but what it can do and what it has the potential to do. If it comes out with 10 planes and 3 maps but has a great mission builder, great scalability, graphics, user customizations, FM & DMs .. it will take off like a shot.

[Bearcat]

ApparentlyJoint Ops is alive and well..

 

JOINT OPS VIRTUAL COMBAT SCHOOL

 

I have added it to the Nugget's Guide again.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I learned most of my BFM from books and flying offline. I learned some combat skills from flying offline. I learned almost all of my ACM and energy conservation by getting killed repeatedly online. Further, I learned ALL of my teamwork and formation skills after being online for over a year and then joining a squadron. I don't think even the best offline missions will create a complete flyer. It's the difference between JV and Varsity. (I suppose the Olympics would be being able to do this in real life ) A true training server is going to be vital to those graduating to the Varsity Team. I really wish I had the time for Joint Ops. They seem to really do it right and I know a few guys from my old squadron who were graduates and recommended them highly. By extension, I also recommend them for all of the reasons stated above. I hope to run a similar program that is more flexible for time considerations while developing pilots and community members.

[=69.GIAP=TARAS]

Joint Ops was fun. For detailed BFM and ACM training one should just join the squad. I imagine every squad has training. I know we do.

[brook]

Imagine you want to practice a BnZ bounce by 109s on some  i16's...

 

If you were using a server you would have to set up the bounce ... for both sets of aircraft, even if you air start your going to have to fly to the target area, get in position and wait for the 109s to get into position and then carry out the training, after the flight if you want to go again you have to go through the process again...it all takes time.

 

If you use a COOP, you can set up the mission with both sets of aircraft in position, maybe 30 secs away...and away you go, if you want to try it again it takes 1-2 mins to set up.

 

If you have the missions you can get through much more training in less time, you can set up the mission anyway you want, for any combat scenario you can think of.

 

Of course this is if the COOP's are set up like IL2.

 

I hope BOS is as easy to set up

 

The old IL2 46 quick mission was great  for training , u could set up any match up in a short time ,' why they drop this god only knows' :-(

[=69.GIAP=STENKA69GIAP]

There are a lot of assorted questions up there, i will work my way through them. After 10 years of running servers for training and campaigns for IL2, ROF and Clod there's nothing new here.

 

What do you need for a training server and what does it cost?

 

69.GIAPs current server was built to handle big rise of flight multi-player missions, that's with 50+ simultaneous human players and hundreds of ground objects including some AI. As BOS will use the basic ROF engine it will probably handle this without too much of an upgrade.

 

We have a Hex core i7, 16 Gb of memory, 64 bit windows server O/S. This sits in a professional data centre with a dedicated symetric 10 Mbit data line. Currently that's being upgraded to 100Mbit data line. So here you are looking at running cost in excess of 140 Euros a month. This will run a ROF server, IL2 server and Teampseak server all in parralel 7x24.

 

However, in practice you don't need this scale to handle a BOS/ROF training server. Running a training session for more than 8 pupils is not practical. A 4x4 is the most that you can handle. Allow one extra place for the trainer externals/spectator mode switched on.

 

Place the Teamspeak server on a separate system with a separate internet connexion. This will not use up the critical upload bandwidth for the ROF/BOS server.

 

For this you need a good quad core processor system running on a decent home ADSL line. This should give you around 800kbs upload speed - which should be enough to run an 8 player multiplayer session.

 

So most of you can do it for negligable cost.

 

We don't use co-op format for training, in ROF or IL2 for that matter. You waste time restarting and relaunching the co-op several times over. In training you need an introduction talk, followed by practice, followed by debrief, then either repeat or next subject.

 

A training map will be in dogfight format, so people with password access can join and leave without needing the trainer to launch and run sessions. You set up one pair of close together airfields with a ground start and another pair set to airstart plus a collection of ground targets.

 

This gives the flexibility to do basic training with circuits and bumps and to quickly repeat air to air training without wasting time relaunching server, taking off and forming up. If you launch a 2x2 session you merely call the students to launch together from the airstart over teamspeak.

 

Now for running this there is only one significant difference between IL2 and ROF (BOS). With IL2 you can set up each airfield/airstart with the full planeset. With ROF(BOS) it does not like having too many different planes on the same MAP. So what you do is a different version of the training map for 1916, Early 1917, Late 1917, Early 1918, Late 1918 etc.

 

Anyone with basic mission building skills should be able to set this up.

 

Running a server is the easy bit. What takes the work is for the trainer to prepare the session in advance with supports delivered to the trainees in .doc and or .ppt or webpages, then getting the trainees in the session and organised on time.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

You sir, are a stud!

 

This is what I've been pondering and talking about. You see things in a similar light to me but know more of the technical aspects. Fortunately my wife is the technical one and this answers many of her tech and cost questions.

 

In squadron training, back when I was flying regularly, we trained pretty comfortably with up to eight planes. I think ten in the air would not push it too much. The main thing is to have very structured nights (ala Joint Ops) but other nights where it is very flexible. The structured nights would be with all of the instructors on board and a specific training objective. The other nights would be more of an open server with one on one (Instructor/Student) working on individual teaching plans. If there is not enough demand for training seven days a week then open the server up as a rookie dogfight server.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The best of both worlds might include a night or two of co-ops/scenarios. Mostly, though, I think the training format would be more open ended and flexible.

 

"Meet at grid AA6 numpad 3 at 2500 feet. Fw's v Spits. Red is practicing formations and defensive flight for. Blue has the bounce. Offense and defense switch every fifteen minutes. Damage is "off" for training this hour."

 

Damage is "off" is the key. Rookies dont have to worry about getting splashed ten seconds into the bounce. And to set it up again everyone just exits the grid. Everyone gets to practice comms, formations and the aggressors get to practice gunnery without having to wait for an out of grid start or a server restart. After that hour, damage is back on and you can practice it live.

 

Two BFM days, Two ACM days, an open IP day where instructors can teach just one on one (drop in or scheduled or both?), and two days of novice furball like the old AAA servers - but with CEM and restricted period planesets ('40-41) ('42-43) ('44-45).  Seems about right.

 

Have specific days for training but the flexibility to drop in or out when it is convenient for the individual. The ONLY thing I didn't like about Joint Ops, and what kept me out of the program, was the super rigid scedule which conflicted with a little thing called work. If I had the time I'd still love to take their courses. I still recommend them, based upon several teammates' reviews, if you can work with their schedule.

Edited May 2, 2013 by HerrMurf

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

RedCloud,

 

I finally got over to your site. It looks fantastic and very similar to my ideas. And here I thought I was being somewhat novel. Best of luck. If you do a BOS I may shelve this and just come over as an IP

[=69.GIAP=MALYSH]

From a giap IP experience:

The problem with more than 8 pilots is not that it's unworkeable from a technical or organisational perspective, it's just bloody difficult from a teaching perspective.

 

Consider that everyone has a day job and will not make it to every session (that's a guarantee). One instructor can teach 2-3 people solid 1-vs-1 geometry (what the USAF and the giap calls BFM) before you're diluting the teaching. People learn with flight time, flight time against a trained target (i.e. the "bad guy" can't be too good or he'll win, nor too bad or the student won't learn) so ideally the bad guy is the instructor and students take turns trying to shoot him down. Too many people and students just don't get enough flight time. One student per instructor is the ideal. Up to three is possible. Eight is simply too much, there's just not enough practice of the concepts. Pitting them against each other doesn't really work (particularly at first) since there is so much to "unlearn" from basic instinctual flying, instincts which we don't want to keep. Too many students and the instructor always has to re-explain what was taught last week to the 1-2 students who couldn't make it, and if he/she doesn't do that they learn very little, since new combat techniques are build on the foundations of past teachings.

 

Once students have gone through BFM, the next step is learning how to work together as a pair, more precisely, how a pair of figthers relate to each other in combat, that's ACM. There are many different systems for this, of which we teach one (which we like and I think is very versatile, but that's subjective too). That's an order of magnitude harder since it requires the engaged fighter to maintain good BFM, be he turning or diving, while the supporting fighter tracks multiple targets and fulfills multiple roles. This is essentially 2v1 training, we consider 2v2 training to be part of ACT, although it's more complicated than that. We introduce ACM through a 2v1 environment.

We find that one pair is best (i.e. two students taught by one instructor) but two pairs can work. In modern parlance this is called ACM (there's a difference in terminology today compared to the WWII-Korea-Vietnam era, which causes some confusion. We use modern USAF terms thanks to a retired fighter instructor who flies with us, so I'll stick to that)

 

Only once students know both BFM and ACM can we teach ACT, i.e. how a four-ship flight functions together. This training can handle 8-10, but the organisation gets much harder. This is the stage where training becomes more about practice, good coms, and knowing your team-mates, and less about unlearning instinct and learning new geometry. Once people know the basics of ACT, they are able to practice almost on their own.

 

This is purely the combat training, no formation, CEM, or basic good-practice flying skills are included. I have huge respect for joint-ops, many pilots in the giap have gone through that system before joining us, but in my experience it teaches an overview of flying skills in a fun and engaging environment, it's a precursor to in-depth combat training, and I've found it exceedingly difficult to teach "basic teamwork" without having a decent foundation on which to build. A 4v4 where the students know only the basics of BFM is just chaos. This is no criticism of JO or the people involved, it's just a task of extraordinary magnitude.

 

 

Conclusion: a full combat course requires a once-a-week commitment of six-eight months or more, and since it's taught through a building-block method it's not possible for a student to jump and skip through modular courses. The burden on the simulated instructor is immense, and it's all done for free. In reality it takes two years of full-time effort to turn someone who's already a pilot into a fighter pilot. A virtual school teaching an "overview" will very much struggle with the advanced concepts.

 

 

 

Murf, I applaud the desire to set up a training system, but I'd humbly advise you to go slowly and start as small as possible, with well-defined entry and exit points, i.e. a good idea of what you're teaching and, even more importantly, what you're NOT teaching. A small number of students who are committed. We've had several instructors "burn out" including myself. If the giap ever tries a little community training, it would be nothing more than an overview of BFM, with maybe a little ladder tourney attached. That would already be dozens of hours of work.

Edited May 3, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MALYSH

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

The plan, for me anyway, is for BFM and CEM for newbies at first. It doesn't have to be a full blown academy to start.

 

I am fairly new to ACM/ACT myself. I am looking for a place to teach what I know and recruit a few instructors for ACM/ACT. I have much to learn and a desire to do so. That's why I think two days of each discipline (BFM/ACM) would be good. Each week could be the same concepts on say a Monday and Wednesday. If you cant make one you could make the other. JO was very inflexible in that regard. Also the drop-in day would be for 1v1 training. If a student missed a training or needed to brush up on a learned concept he could find an instructor on the server or PM an instructor to meet on the server that day. 

 

I have to start small due to budget and time anyway. Build it and they will come?!

You GIAP boys are very helpful by the way.

 

~S