Trainer aircraft

[Heliopause]

Always nice to have

 

Edited January 13, 2018 by Heliopause

[Missionbug]

I think all flight games irrespective of whether they are combat simulation or not should have training aircraft, in this case one for each side.

 

That said, for Germany the current operational areas are a long way from home and the training airfields they would occupy, for the Soviets no issue in that respect.

 

Everyone assumes that people who buy into this particular genre of aviation are purely fighter and bomber pilot orientated and just want to destroy stuff, there are many

of us who I think use the game purely to experience the aircraft of that time be they transports, trainer, or recon types matters not. 

 

Having the opportunity to fly the existing maps is paramount and to experience a more diverse set of aircraft and roles would be really appreciated by many I think.

 

Anyway, with regard to the OP, yes certainly for me, you train to be a fighter pilot, you are not born one.

 

Also, as has been shown in the images there are aircraft already in game that could be adapted as two seat trainers, I-16 is a good example, so the development team does

not necessarily need to develop specific new types but could meet us half way by at least providing a fighter lead in trainer if they did not want to make the pure basic trainers

such as the Tiger Moth that Blitz has.  

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Missionbug

[HenFre]

It was just the only other example of the Germans using Russian 'Kukuruznik'- type aircraft I had found (and it's a pretty cool photograph)...... Do you really have a problem with that ?

 

Problem with what? I dont understand what you are trying to say??

 

 

I think all flight games irrespective of whether they are combat simulation or not should have training aircraft, in this case one for each side. That said, for Germany the current operational areas are a long way from home and the training airfields they would occupy, for the Soviets no issue in that respect. Everyone assumes that people who buy into this particular genre of aviation are purely fighter and bomber pilot orientated and just want to destroy stuff, there are many of us who I think use the game purely to experience the aircraft of that time be they transports, trainer, or recon types matters not. Having the opportunity to fly the existing maps is paramount and to experience a more diverse set of aircraft and roles would be really appreciated by many I think. Anyway, with regard to the OP, yes certainly for me, you train to be a fighter pilot, you are not born one. Also, as has been shown in the images there are aircraft already in game that could be adapted as two seat trainers, I-16 is a good example, so the development team does not necessarily need to develop specific new types but could meet us half way by at least providing a fighter lead in trainer if they did not want to make the pure basic trainers such as the Tiger Moth that Blitz has. Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

 

Well said Pete 

 

 

where you will probably die for the next years on your missions

 

I don't think that many would enjoy that? Would you not rather have learned to fly the plane properly and the progress into flying them in combat?

Edited January 17, 2018 by HenFre

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The U-2 is already being developed, that was the main basic trainer in the Soviet Union for decades. We'll be good to go

 

All wartime pilots graduated the U-2 (Polikarpov), a few got some time with the UT-2 (Yakovlev), most fighter and attack pilots did specialised training in the I-16 and UTI-4 (Polikarpov) while most bomber pilots trained with the SB (Tupolev). After that they were sent straight to whichever aircraft they were meant to fly in action, with some unfortunate ones being rushed straight from the U-2 to Yaks, MiGs and so on.

[Ehret]

BoX have a quick mission and custom options, which can be set to make things much easier. You can train as much as you want without adding any trainee airplane.

[HenFre]

 

 

The U-2 is already being developed, that was the main basic trainer in the Soviet Union for decades. We'll be good to go

 

What about the German pilots?   ​Would be nice to have a dedicated trainer for them too.

 

 

 

All wartime pilots graduated the U-2 (Polikarpov), a few got some time with the UT-2 (Yakovlev), most fighter and attack pilots did specialised training in the I-16 and UTI-4 (Polikarpov) while most bomber pilots trained with the SB (Tupolev). After that they were sent straight to whichever aircraft they were meant to fly in action, with some unfortunate ones being rushed straight from the U-2 to Yaks, MiGs and so on.

 

Interesting. Do you happen to know how many hours flight time the average Russian pilot had before getting to an operational unit? 

[Sokol1]

 

Also, as has been shown in the images there are aircraft already in game that could be adapted as two seat trainers, I-16 is a good example, 

 

In what a (game) i-16 trainer will be more easy for novice learn than conventional i-16?

 

The game has no dual control for aircraft, e.g. co-pilot, bombardier, don't sounds realistic develop this only for match trainer needs, that will result in few people using, probable less that a bombardier control.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Interesting. Do you happen to know how many hours flight time the average Russian pilot had before getting to an operational unit?

 

No idea. I'm sure there are some guidelines or reports somewhere with the exact information, but I can comfortably tell you that the answer is "as many as the situation allowed".

 

Going through memoirs you can find many different stories. Many had pretty lengthy training periods exceeding two years, and also did time as flight school instructors. Others were taken through the "take-off/landing school" where they were taught basics of airmanship, then sent off to combat units right away. Whenever possible veteran pilots followed the unwritten code of completing the kids' training at the unit before taking them into combat, and their baptism of fire was usually flying wingman to an experienced pilot in a flight formed by other experienced pilots (at least for fighters).

[MiloMorai]

If you want to know about Soviet pilot training read,

Air Combat over the Eastern Front and Korea: A Soviet Fighter Pilot remembers by Sergei Kramarenko

[JG7_X-Man]

I voted "No".

 

Reason: This isn't real life! Thus, taking the time to learn how to fly a trainer then on to an actual combat aircraft is a waste of time. In real life it's done to get a pilot familiar with how an aircraft handles and maneuvers in something less powerful than a combat aircraft. It's only done to reduce the chance of death and destruction of property. Without such issues in virtual reality - what's the point?

[Missionbug]

In what a (game) i-16 trainer will be more easy for novice learn than conventional i-16?

 

The game has no dual control for aircraft, e.g. co-pilot, bombardier, don't sounds realistic develop this only for match trainer needs, that will result in few people using, probable less that a bombardier control.

 

 

No, it would not necessarily be any easier to do that in a two seat aircraft, however, you could develop a new facet of game play.  In DCS you can be taken through the start up procedure using on screen commands, we already have this to a certain extent in this series already, this could be extended and possibly add a little extra immersion to the game with a series of missions designed for it, a new challenge instead of shooting things all the time.

 

The aircraft does not actually need to be dual controlled to do that just have you the pilot in the respective cockpit, instructions could be either through voice commands or on screen.  If dual controls were added to the game that would offer a even greater dynamic especially for those of you who fly on line as you could teach your best friend to fly, maybe even the wife, or she you depends.  It would also give a different experience in that two people could fly away from the front and just enjoy the experience.

 

Is it really necessary?  Is it worth adding at the expense of possibly more important things?  Depends on how you want a game to develop and whether you want a more diverse user base I suppose. 

 

Anyway, it does no harm to look at what might be possible while we wait for the final release of Kuban, put ideas into the head of those in development and who knows what might come in the future.

 

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Pict]

I like your idea and therefore voted Yes

 

Having just re-read Malta Spitfire, about George Beurling (interesting book & interesting guy), it had a few chapters on his training with the RAF, just after the BOB. They progressed through, basic (Miles Magister), advanced (Miles Master) and second line fighters (Hawker Hurricane), inter-spaced with training on a simulator thing called the "link trainer", before going to an operational training squadron to train on Spitfires.

 

That said, more than one type of trainer would be needed for realism. The Yak-7b about to be released for BOK was produced from the Yak-7 trainer, so shouldn't be a major challenge to convert into an advanced trainer.

 

Out of interest, as you mention you are studying the Luftwaffe training syllabus, did they have any equivalent to the "link trainer"?

Edited January 18, 2018 by Pict

[Sokol1]

 inter-spaced with training on a simulator thing called the "link trainer", before going to an operational training squadron to train on Spitfires.

 

Mmm, a simulated Link Trainer will be more interesting than a e.g. "i-16 trainer" plane.

[Avimimus]

FYI - there were a number of German trainers that were re-purposed in 1943 to be the German equivalent of the Po-2 (although with the exception of the Fw-58 they seem to have usually lacked guns).