HenFre Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Would you like to see trainer aircraft being developed for the flight sim? I think it would be a great way to introduce new flight simmers to Battle of Stalingrad. They could learn the basics of flying and fighting before they go into actual virtual combat. What is your take on this? Edited January 2, 2018 by HenFre
Beazil Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Sure it would be nice, but thinking in terms of cost/benefit, what is the incentive for the developer? Who would pay full price for trainer ac? What use are they for us as customers other than as shiney new playthings? Edit: I ask when we can train on any a.c. We own at present with no risk of death or real damage. Edited January 2, 2018 by Beazil
HenFre Posted January 2, 2018 Author Posted January 2, 2018 Sure it would be nice, but thinking in terms of cost/benefit, what is the incentive for the developer? Who would pay full price for trainer ac? What use are they for us as customers other than as shiney new playthings? Edit: I ask when we can train on any a.c. We own at present with no risk of death or real damage. You are right that we have planes today that we can train in. But they are really hard to fly compared to training aircraft of that time. If you are new to flying in flightsims it would be much easier to learn the basics in the slower and more forgiving training aircraft. It is also for me a question of immersion. It would be so great to develop a training program for both the axis and the allies which would serve as the introduction to the game. Like a tutorial. The incentive for the developer is to have more customers who follow the game for a longer time and therefore buys more. If you try BOS as a new flightsim player today it is a step learning curve and I think many are disheartened by this fact. With this poll I am trying to measure how many are interested in this topic. I am myself studying how the german pilots where trained. What they where taught, how many flight hours they had during their training, which aircraft they flew etc. I would love to be able to implement this to the flight sim.
Beazil Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) A 108 train training a.c. For the axis would very much be welcome for example, but we will have this in clod, at some point. Likewise clod also has the tiger moth for the allies. I'm thinking in terms of cost/benefit for the developers. I'm sure they would agree with you that "it would be nice", as would I. Edit: I would purchase, but I think there has been A lot learned from the experience of creating the ju52 as flyable. Many people requested it, but not many purchased it. I don't speak for 1C, but I doubt they would do something like this again. Edited January 2, 2018 by Beazil
curiousGamblerr Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 I want trainers only after every single combat, transport and recon aircraft of both world wars is modeled.
Dakpilot Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 As a side project (or done by mod team when this is possible) I think a Yak -7V trainer could be an interesting idea we already have most of it with the soon to be released Yak 7b An actual 2 crew dual control trainer would maybe be a different and cool way to introduce new players with real time instruction on comms However this maybe too niche, and I would not advocate this if it would detriment normal development of BoS series Cheers Dakpilot
Lusekofte Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 Actually, even most people here believe this game is easy, a trainer with two people would help a lot of people. I see in some servers people struggeling. There should be one German and one Russian type since the controls are so different, it would also be cool in terms of just free flight for two
AndyJWest Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 I voted no. The number of combat aircraft I'd like to see added before trainers need to be considered probably runs into the hundreds, and I doubt I'll live long enough to see that. And anyone wishing to learn to fly from scratch will probably find the IL-2 docile enough to manage. Or if they don't, they probably aren't going to learn anyway. In the real world, dedicated trainer aircraft are necessary because it is inefficient to waste good planes and poor pilots in smoking holes. Not really a consideration in a sim. 1
HenFre Posted January 2, 2018 Author Posted January 2, 2018 Edit: I would purchase, but I think there has been A lot learned from the experience of creating the ju52 as flyable. Many people requested it, but not many purchased it. I don't speak for 1C, but I doubt they would do something like this again. You maybe right that many would not buy these aircraft as addons, but I was thinking the training aircraft would be released as part of a new scenario. I think you could get new customers if you advertise the fact that the game comes with training aircraft and a tutorial for learning how to fly. I have had a look on steam and it is not possible for me to by the JU 52. Is it not sold anymore?
HenFre Posted January 2, 2018 Author Posted January 2, 2018 I voted no. The number of combat aircraft I'd like to see added before trainers need to be considered probably runs into the hundreds, and I doubt I'll live long enough to see that. And anyone wishing to learn to fly from scratch will probably find the IL-2 docile enough to manage. Or if they don't, they probably aren't going to learn anyway. In the real world, dedicated trainer aircraft are necessary because it is inefficient to waste good planes and poor pilots in smoking holes. Not really a consideration in a sim. I beg to differ. You have to take on the mindset of the newcomers to flight sims. I know the hardcore gamers that have flown in the virtual skies for a long time have no preference for flying these planes, but I think newcomers would appreciate the implementation of trainers and a training program.
Bullets Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 Its called Rise of Flight and its free to play! 1
HenFre Posted January 2, 2018 Author Posted January 2, 2018 Its called Rise of Flight and its free to play! Are new players to BOS playing Rise of Flight to learn how to fly? 1
AndyJWest Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) I beg to differ. You have to take on the mindset of the newcomers to flight sims. I know the hardcore gamers that have flown in the virtual skies for a long time have no preference for flying these planes, but I think newcomers would appreciate the implementation of trainers and a training program. The poll says nothing about a 'training program'. Edited January 2, 2018 by AndyJWest 1
HenFre Posted January 2, 2018 Author Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) The poll says nothing about a 'training program'. I would like it if the developers make the aircraft and then it could be debated if the community or the developer should provide the training programs. Edited January 2, 2018 by HenFre
AndyJWest Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 I'd think the developers would need something more than a proposal for a 'debate' before they committed resources on a new aircraft. 1
HenFre Posted January 2, 2018 Author Posted January 2, 2018 I'd think the developers would need something more than a proposal for a 'debate' before they committed resources on a new aircraft. I take it you have voted no then Just trying to get a feel for this and definitely not trying to make the developers commit.
AndyJWest Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 I take it you have voted no then Just trying to get a feel for this and definitely not trying to make the developers commit. You don't have to 'take it'. Just read my first post. The one you quoted earlier. As for getting a feel for things, you won't get far if you don't tell us what you are proposing. What sort of 'training programs' did you have in mind? 1
II/JG17_HerrMurf Posted January 2, 2018 Posted January 2, 2018 I voted maybe because the Po-2 is already being developed. Maybe the third party developers can take this on if that AC is a success. I’ll take a Stearman thank you..... 1
SharpeXB Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 No. Developing non-combat aircraft for a combat sim is a waste of resources. Players can learn perfectly well on the aircraft already in the game. The reasons that trainer aircraft are needed in the real world don’t exist in a game. 3
unreasonable Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) Are new players to BOS playing Rise of Flight to learn how to fly? If they are not, they should be encouraged to do so. It is free - at least the base planes - and the flying experience is easier in the sense that there is less to worry about - flaps, gear etc. In addition, flying a low power plane gives a much better feel for the effect of drag, gravity etc: Just as the GAF trainers thought that those who learned to fly on gliders first were usually better pilots of powered aircraft, I am convinced that the feel of flight in RoF gives valuable lessons for flying the powerful WW2 warbirds. Plus it might encourage them to pre-order FC. Edited January 3, 2018 by unreasonable 1
Matt Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 Definately not. Complete waste of ressources that could be better spend elsewhere. People can learn to fly with the current planeset just as well and if they have trouble with full realism mode, they can customize the difficulty themselves.
Royal_Flight Posted January 3, 2018 Posted January 3, 2018 I like the idea but I don't want to see it implemented. As others have said, maybe when every other combat aircraft has been done. That said, I liked the way that CloD has a Tiger Moth for its set of training missions. That was a cool idea and a good introduction. It would be cool to have something similar in BoX, but given the pace of development and the fact that there are bigger gaps in the planesets I don't want time to be spent on this that could be better spent elsewhere. Training missions, on the other hand, I would thoroughly support. Just a few missions that the community could put together in a brief 'training campaign' to show the basics of flight, instrument use, engine management and navigation, or something similar. That's something that probably should have been included already but the community can do it. It also occurs to me that the in-progress Po-2 could fit this niche as a basic ab initio flight trainer at least for VVS, if a Storch or similar is forthcoming then LW could benefit in this way as well. But no to purpose-built trainers. We're already running a severe deficit of recon and transport planes and we could do with more bomber/atrackers too, so the devs' time would be better spent sorting this out.
HenFre Posted January 7, 2018 Author Posted January 7, 2018 I can see that the Polikarpov Po-2 is already being developed for BOS. Does anyone know who this mystery long-time professional development partner is?
OrLoK Posted January 7, 2018 Posted January 7, 2018 Id like it. Imho id like to see more varied aircraft types compared to the plethora of pure fighters we already have. Would the po2 fit this role? If so the germans could use a captured po2 to introduce their pilots to flight. 1
HenFre Posted January 7, 2018 Author Posted January 7, 2018 Would the po2 fit this role? If so the germans could use a captured po2 to introduce their pilots to flight. The Po-2, also called the U-2, was a general purpose biplane used by the Soviet airforce from 1928. It served in many roles and amongst them as a training aircraft. 1
Lusekofte Posted January 7, 2018 Posted January 7, 2018 I like to fly the Tiger moth in Cod, I do that occational in MP and fly low over cities. It give a genuine feel of real flight . I will do this with the PO 2 also, you tend to focus on flying and not fighting when flying planes like this, objectives are no longer a consern. I really like to do that once in a while. Once again I see no problem making a model if the Developers find the time, I think this is the only forum where the users refuse other users their wish. Nothing will pull the developers from the things they earn money on, if they find time to give the game those small details to make it perfect they do that. No one is claiming this as a vital model for the game 2
Pail Posted January 7, 2018 Posted January 7, 2018 Po 2 for the Russians and "Nähmaschine" for the Germans... 1
Rjel Posted January 7, 2018 Posted January 7, 2018 I think instead of dedicated trainers, more actual training missions would go a lot further for a new flyer trying to learn the game. I liked flying the Tiger Moth in CLoD, but I enjoyed flying the training missions more that it was used in. To be honest, who is going to fly an AT-6 when that shiny new Mustang, Thunderbolt and Lightning are just waiting for the new pilot to finish training? The CLoD system of having the backseater barking orders to you could be adapted to having someone telling you what step was next in the training mission. Not 100% accurate perhaps, but do we really need dual seat P-51s or Bf-109s to learn the game and then likely never to be used again?
HenFre Posted January 7, 2018 Author Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) To be honest, who is going to fly an AT-6 when that shiny new Mustang, Thunderbolt and Lightning are just waiting for the new pilot to finish training? I would fly these old training aircraft and that is why I started this thread. In my mind this simulation (BOS) is trying to emulate reality as close as possible, so shouldn't it be the same for training? I think it would do a lot for the emersion into the game. I think instead of dedicated trainers, more actual training missions would go a lot further for a new flyer trying to learn the game. I liked flying the Tiger Moth in CLoD, but I enjoyed flying the training missions more that it was used in. I totally agree with you that we need more training missions. A dedicated training program/campaign for learning the basics of flying in the sim. There are some good videos on Youtube though, through which you can learn a lot. Not 100% accurate perhaps, but do we really need dual seat P-51s or Bf-109s to learn the game and then likely never to be used again? This is not what I mean by training aircraft. I would rather want to see basic trainers as they where also made in large numbers and utilized to other tasks than just training. Edited January 7, 2018 by HenFre 1
HenFre Posted January 7, 2018 Author Posted January 7, 2018 Po 2 for the Russians and "Nähmaschine" for the Germans... Polikarpov R-5.jpg Polikarpov U-2.jpg Funny how the text to the top picture states that it is a R-5. It is a Po-2 although it looks like a 3 seater
Rjel Posted January 7, 2018 Posted January 7, 2018 I would fly these old training aircraft and that is why I started this thread. In my mind this simulation (BOS) is trying to emulate reality as close as possible, so shouldn't it be the same for training? I think it would do a lot for the emersion into the game. Maybe. But in real life, that pilot in training was doing it as a full time job. Hundreds of hours of ground school. Hundreds more in flight school. How many people do you know who can dedicate that kind of time to a game? Anything less wouldn't simulate reality. We all have our own ideas of immersion. In the end, it's just a game.
HenFre Posted January 7, 2018 Author Posted January 7, 2018 Maybe. But in real life, that pilot in training was doing it as a full time job. Hundreds of hours of ground school. Hundreds more in flight school. How many people do you know who can dedicate that kind of time to a game? Anything less wouldn't simulate reality. We all have our own ideas of immersion. In the end, it's just a game. I agree that the training can't be as comprehensive as in real life. Some shortcuts have to be made. But there has to be some tutoring given to new players, otherwise the majority will just fly around and not know what to do. Lets help new players of this sim have some succes through training and make them stay with the game for a longer time. And through that make a more realistic game..
HenFre Posted January 8, 2018 Author Posted January 8, 2018 (edited) NA-T6 Interesting choice. It was actually also used as a trainer by the Luftwaffe. http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/na64.html Edited January 8, 2018 by HenFre
Danziger Posted January 8, 2018 Posted January 8, 2018 I vote yes as the U2 is already coming and was used as a trainer. 1
Roast Posted January 8, 2018 Posted January 8, 2018 While not an official trainer aircraft, I would like to see the i-153 in the game which could act as one. Just give us the 20mm armed variant to play with and play with the odd Axis fighter lost over my base, to shoot a few holes in By the way, I think that we need a few more older fighter types in the game, like the Henschel Hs123, Fiat CR42 and i-153, as I think this sim is jumping to late war fighter aircraft too quick to my liking!
Royal_Flight Posted January 9, 2018 Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) By the way, I think that we need a few more older fighter types in the game, like the Henschel Hs123, Fiat CR42 and i-153, as I think this sim is jumping to late war fighter aircraft too quick to my liking! I agree. Especially biplanes... could happily see a few of those added. Early-war aircraft seem a bit more characterful, from a time before everything was BnZ and speed in straight lines. Edited January 9, 2018 by Royal_Flight 1
Jade_Monkey Posted January 10, 2018 Posted January 10, 2018 In general, im not interested in trainers. However, when the demo comes out, having one fighter and one trainer might not be such a bad idea. Perhaps the Po2 could do that along the Lagg3, or the Emil.
HenFre Posted January 13, 2018 Author Posted January 13, 2018 However, when the demo comes out, having one fighter and one trainer might not be such a bad idea. Perhaps the Po2 could do that along the Lagg3, or the Emil. The Po-2 could certainly do the job for the Russian side, but what about a German trainer also? I would suggest the Focke Wulf Fw 44 "Stieglitz" https://www.planespotters.net/photo/604603/d-etuf-private-focke-wulf-fw-44-stieglitz
Pail Posted January 13, 2018 Posted January 13, 2018 Funny how the text to the top picture states that it is a R-5. It is a Po-2 although it looks like a 3 seater You'll notice i called them "Nähmaschine" ....... It was just the only other example of the Germans using Russian 'Kukuruznik'- type aircraft I had found (and it's a pretty cool photograph)...... Do you really have a problem with that ?
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