Question: PWCG in choosing aircraft

[JG7_X-Man]

I am a tad confused about the "Select aircraft I own". Does this mean select only the aircraft in my versions of BoX, or select all the aircraft in all my versions of BoX (...which includes premium aircraft but as AI only)? So in my case I will "Select All"?

[busdriver]

If I didn't own the Premium aircraft I would NOT select ALL. Just my uninformed take on the matter. I think that is the logic behind forcing you to tell PWCG what you have, so it won't generate an assignment to a P-40 or Spitfire unit as an example.

[PatrickAWlson]

Everything plane that you own across all products.  PWCG combines all three products and does not distinguish other than understanding maps and dates.  PWCG uses all of the planes wherever appropriate, regardless of which map they came from.  

 

The only purpose of planes owned is to warn you if you generate a mission for a plane that you do not own.  

[PatrickAWlson]

If I didn't own the Premium aircraft I would NOT select ALL. Just my uninformed take on the matter. I think that is the logic behind forcing you to tell PWCG what you have, so it won't generate an assignment to a P-40 or Spitfire unit as an example.

 

In days long gone by PWCG had complex algorithms to put the pilot into an owned plane. A long while ago, after I implemented the ability to select planes, I eliminated the algorithm and replaced it with a warning.  The player can either change planes or transfer to a squadron that flies a plane the player owns.

[JG7_X-Man]

Thanks Patrick for your response! Let me clearly what my intentions are. I want to encounter AI of the "Premium Aircraft" in addition to the AI of previous version of BoX (example: I own BoK, and the MiG-3 and Spit Vb did not come with BoK as flyable models, but they exist in AI. If I want my campaign to generate a mission with those two aircraft as AI, are you saving I can't/shouldn't?

 

In my case, I fly the Fw 190A-5, and it came with BoK, I just choose the unit that was assigned the Fw 190A-5 and that was that. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by JG7_X_Man

[sniperton]

Select the planes you own (those will be flyable), and pre-select the map you own (Kuban), and you'll get AI opponents relevant in Kuban in 1943, no matter whether you own them or not. There's a chance to encounter Spitfires, but there's little chance to encounter MiGs there.

[JG7_X-Man]

As a test, I selected the Fw 190A-5 as the only aircraft I had and then selected the Kuban map. The VVS units received a mix of MiGs, LaGGs, La-5s, Yak-1s, and Yak-1bs and the Luftwaffe units had a single Fw 190A-5 unit and units of G-4, G-2, E-7s,Hs 129s, Ju-88s, He 111 etc...

 

So it seems the aircraft that are assigned to units depend on the BoX version and less of what aircraft I select.Anyway, I like this better than keeping track of which aircraft I own.

[PatrickAWlson]

The aircraft are assigned to units based on my own data set, which relies heavily on the sources provided by people on this forum.  Assignment is based on historical squadron and date.  Assignment does not depend on game version (BoS vs BoM vs BoK) or which planes you own.  If you did not own BoS but did own BoM and BoK PWCG would still have a Stalingrad map, with Stalingrad squadrons and BoS planes.  It would be up to you to avoid them.  PWCG helps by warning you when you are using a plane that you do not own.

 

Many aircraft are used on multiple maps - in fact, most are.  The FW190 A5 is used only on Kuban because it did not exist before then.  Ju88, Ju87, and MiG 3 are examples of planes that are used on all three maps.  

[JG7_X-Man]

PatrickAWlson - Thank you for a wonder tool! The randomness/half-hazard routes that are generated verses direct are very realistic as it was more common knowledge as to what units were stationed where and what routes they flew and when they were active.

 

I do wish I had better control as to what friendly units were to be generated though. Luftwaffe units in Russia wasn't as clear cut as in the west because the front was more fluid and was always in flux. 

 

Example: Records show that I./JG 51 was stationed somewhere between Orel-West and Bryansk from 3/43 - 8/43, but you have them at Myskhako (some 20KM away from Gelendzhik). Now this is very important because it seems very far fetched that a very hard to come by Luftwaffe unit supporting of Army Group South would be stationed so close to a very important naval base which obviously protected to the max:

 

 

Roughly from January until June, 1943, the Black Sea Fleet was occupied with safeguarding the shipment of military reinforcements and supplies from Batura, Poti, and Sukhum to the ports of Tuapse and Gelendzhik, from which points attacks on Novorossisk were made. [http://www.allworldwars.com/USSR-Navy-1943-Part-I.html]

So although the German army may have occupied Myskhako during that period, I will need some hard evidence to make me believe the Luftwaffe was stupid enough to place 30+ aircraft to be raided at will by the Russian army or bombed day and night by the VVS.

 

If I may request, give us users the "option" to place units we want were we want them and retain your auto assigning algorithm for those that don't have the time to do their own research. Note: JG51 was still flying A-3s and A-4s in March of '43, so as we are going by guess work as far as "Order of Battle" goes, there is no such thing as "definite".

 

Thank you still - for a great application

[MarcoPegase44]

Hello

 

In fact, the units files in the Squadron folder have historical location errors. So you have to change them with better locations of airfield is that I did for some but it's work.

This is true especially for the JG51 which is found at one time on the Kuban map and has never fought in this area.

[PatrickAWlson]

I have no doubt that the unit locations are not accurate.  First, I have near zero information regarding which units are where.  Second, even if I had perfect information it would still be unrealistic because the lines move at discrete intervals (these are pretty accurate with some modifications to make fields available) and not continuously as they would have in real life.  

 

The placement in Kuban was all about compromises.  As the lines moved I had situations where fields were not conveniently located.  Too close or too far, with far too few I would have liked.  If I moved everything back 100km and more from the front there would be complaints about the missions being too long.  Move things for game play purposes and there are complaints about accuracy.  Sort of a can't win situation so I try to find an appropriate compromise.  

 

So ... with all of that I am certainly willing to entertain specific suggestions.  I can look at some of the units that are close and move them back, although that will mean three, for or five squadrons all operating from the same base.  Suggest which unit should move where at which time.  Take the front lines into account.  Please understand that historical accuracy is dicey.  I want a unit about where it should be but I am more interested in game play than perfect historical accuracy.

[JG7_X-Man]

Patrick - Thank you for your response. I agree that distances will definitely be an issue - a compromise is better for game play. I will take a look at the # of airfields in the Kuban map and see what I can offer as far as alternative units placements.

 

Thank you for not getting overly defensive of your much appreciated hard work - and turning my well intended but maybe not well presented constructive criticism into an inssulting match! You are a very wise man! Dilly-Dilly! 

[MarcoPegase44]

Hello,
I confirm, I tried to position II / JG52 historically Kerch early March 1943 and I find that with missions too long, it reduces the interest of the game I will edit on Anapa to find a playable campaign.

Edited December 29, 2017 by MarcoPegase44

[JG7_X-Man]

Marco - I think a mission radius max is maybe 150 KM is perfect for my kind of flying, which is 75 KM to target. However, some like historically accurate mission - thus 200 KM to 350 KM  would not be in order.