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Users Of CH Products Gear With Control Manager Software - BE ADVISED!


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#1 DDoutel

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 00:10

(Also posted at ATAG).

 

As many of you are doubtless aware, CH Control Manager software has ceased to work recently under Windows 10. After several rounds of uninstallation/reinstallation, I called and spoke to John in CH support. Here's what I learned:
 

  • Bob Church, the developer of the software, has retired.
  • CH is aware that the software, the last version of which was updated in 2011, no longer functions under Windows 10.
  • CH has not reached out to Microsoft for assistance in resolving the problem with the software, hence Microsoft will never know that they broke it. John, on the other hand, seemed to think it possible that Microsoft could release another set of patches to Windows 10 that just might happen to fix the problem, as randomly as it was broken. As a 40+ year Microsoft developer myself, I told John that it is up to CH to contact Microsoft and work with them to resolve the issue; it is not possible for Microsoft to fix a problem with the operating system that they are unaware of, and delusional to expect them to do so.
  • CH has not mounted a search for a developer to pick up the maintenance of the Control Manager Software.

For me, the programmability of the CH Products gear was what sold them to me more than 10 years ago, and without that programmability, the devices don't speak well enough for themselves in terms of build quality anymore to justify purchasing these devices. Sad, because they used to be among the best values in the industry, with some of the best support.


Edited by DDoutel, 21 December 2017 - 00:11.

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#2 BlitzPig_EL

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 01:34

I've never used the CH Control Manager software in all the years I've had their gear.

 

My CH stuff is now rather old, some of the pots are now spiking, and the toe brakes are on all the time, so I no longer use them

 

With the cost of better equipment than the CH now at levels that are beyond my personal economic sensibilities, I have come to the decision that when my current gear becomes totally unusable, I'll be done with flight simulation.  It's a sad state of affairs, but I can't justify the prices of equipment to pretend I'm flying anymore.

 

I wish there was something that had all the functions of the CH stuff that didn't cost an arm and a leg but the good stuff all come from Russia it seems, and it's all too expensive.


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#3 216th_Lucas_From_Hell

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 01:44

I wish there was something that had all the functions of the CH stuff that didn't cost an arm and a leg but the good stuff all come from Russia it seems, and it's all too expensive.

 

EL, look into the Thrustmaster T.16000M before calling it quits. You can get a very precise set consisting of throttle+stick+rudders for $200, which is far from cheap but when most sticks alone are going for that it's a fair price. Three weeks into using mine and I've never been happier from peripherals. Haven't had to bother with the software so far - in fact, I've got about a fourth of the buttons mapped, and I'm already out of ideas on what to assign to the spare ones.


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#4 kendo

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 10:29

Is this due to the recent Win 10 Fall Update?

 

I'm still on the Spring update - I usually try to delay installation for 6 months until all the bugs are thoroughly worked out - and everything seems to be ok.

 

I suspect CH will need to remedy this situation in some way as they can't just write off new sales because their products don't work with Windows.


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#5 216th_Nocke

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 10:40

hmmmm ....using that software without problems with windows 10 here. System is up-todate, last
update just some days ago.
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#6 1./JG54_Hoss

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:35

Yeah, when I converted to my new Warthog, my CH Pro Throttle, Fighter Stick and Pedals were working just fine using Control manager and Windows 10, but I also used CM Start to fire up and change profiles..... before flying......

 

Cheers

 

Hoss


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#7 Lensman

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:44

No problems for me with the latest MS win 10 64bit revision.
There IS a weird anomaly on my system that means I can't update any Logitech software unless I uninstall the CH Control Manager first but otherwise it's fully functional.

Thanks for trying to help with the issue that others are facing though, much appreciated and it's sad to hear that CH are so utterly complacent and neglectful of their customers. It's not like it's an especially complicated or huge application. One developer could resolve any issues in a day or two.

Edited by Lensman, 21 December 2017 - 12:47.

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#8 6./ZG76_Archie

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 13:32

Never used the CH manager in the 10 plus years I have had my CH gear. I doubt they care much TBH. There are much better flight sim peripherals available now.


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#9 KG200_Volker

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 14:09

We installed just 2 days ago CH manager in win10 of a friend, it was refusing to work UNTIL we closed TeamSpeak !!

 

It was opening but did not recognize the quadrant, all 3 buttons Off/Direct/Mapped where greyed out and if you press Calibrate it was hanging.

 

So check this too it night help.


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#10 Blitzen

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 15:15

I believe santa is bringing me a set of CH Rudder pedals to use wurh my KB stick- does this post mean they will not work as advertised 7 I should just send them back on the Amazon sleigh???? :rolleyes:


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#11 6./ZG76_Archie

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 15:40

They should work perfectly Blitzen you don't 'need' Control Manager.


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#12 Sokol1

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 15:44

My CH stuff is now rather old, some of the pots are now spiking, and the toe brakes are on all the time, so I no longer use them

 

With the cost of better equipment than the CH now at levels that are beyond my personal economic sensibilities, I have come to the decision that when my current gear becomes totally unusable, I'll be done with flight simulation.  It's a sad state of affairs, but I can't justify the prices of equipment to pretend I'm flying anymore.

 

One advantage of CH controllers is that this faults are reparable and CH furnish the need parts. Potentiometer can be replace just using a Philips screwdriver and a pliers.

 

In my "corner for the world", where a Warthog HOTAS - when available cost more than $1.000 - make controllers last is a need, so I have repaired/modernized (with 12 bits USB controllers) some CH stick/throttle/pedals that are easy to work internally and their construction material, the biased 'plastic" is more sturdy/durable than the "metal is real" (Zamac) of Cougar/Warthogs. One these is a 1998 CH Combatstick with thousand of "flight hours", after consume 2 set of potentiometers now use HALL sensor. :)

 

This "Russian" stuff is very good and don't cost a leg.

 

The grip has few buttons, 3 + POV HAT, but using pink as "shift" (default profile in fimrware) is 2+ POV HAT + 6 virtual buttons under "shift", double with mode button. Plus ~12 buttons on base.

 

http://store.x-plane...K-II_p_595.html

 

Their rudder don't have "toe brakes" - only virtual "differential brakes" (asIL-2 plane) but is made is steel/aluminum, use bearings in pivots, last generation of contact less sensor and ARM32 USB controller - cost a bit more than Saitek pedal, but considerable less that "high end" end pedals (MFG, Slaw, Baur).


Edited by Sokol1, 21 December 2017 - 15:50.

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... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#13 Gerd_le_bourrin

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 18:04

Thanks for that topic, i was thinking that the issue was on my side. Everytime i launch CoD Blitz, i must remapping all joystick button ... I've give up with this one!


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#14 =CAF=xThrottle_Geek

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 18:16

Not sure if this is a Win 10 issue or not but my problems with the software seem to stem from problems with USB. If I dont use the stick for a couple days it won't download the script for remapping custom keys. I have to unplug and replug the stick into a different USB to be recognized again.


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#15 hedger72

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 22:52

Interesting timing on this topic. I too have been rocking CH products for well over 10 years, and never a problem...until recently.

 

Yes, latest Win10 update here (about 4 days in), though my problems started about a month ago. Basically, and this isn't always, but when I load up a profile (map) in Control Manager, only my Fighterstick is recognized. The Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals are not. A reboot solves it everytime. Annoying, yes, but not something I have lost a lot of sleep over. 

 

They should work perfectly Blitzen you don't 'need' Control Manager.

 

Archie, could you please elaborate? I have always used Control Manager with my CH products and I always assumed that they were 'tied at the hips'. I love the flexibility of loading different maps for various sims (RoF, CloD, BoX, etc) and just jumping in the cockpit. Is there other methods by which you can 'pre-assign' buttons to your controls, for different sims, without the aid of Control Manager? 

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Hedger


Edited by hedger72, 21 December 2017 - 22:54.

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#16 Sokol1

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 00:58

The guys that don't like/don't could use Manager assign buttons/axis direct in Controls GUI.

 

In DCSW, CLoD... this can be done per plane, but in Bo'X only a global profile for all planes - what show some inconveniences due planes peculiarities.


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... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#17 LLv34_Temuri

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 07:25

Not sure if this is a Win 10 issue or not but my problems with the software seem to stem from problems with USB. If I dont use the stick for a couple days it won't download the script for remapping custom keys. I have to unplug and replug the stick into a different USB to be recognized again.

IIRC, Windows has some USB power saving setting. Maybe it's because of that.


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#18 hedger72

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 17:33

The guys that don't like/don't could use Manager assign buttons/axis direct in Controls GUI.

 

In DCSW, CLoD... this can be done per plane, but in Bo'X only a global profile for all planes - what show some inconveniences due planes peculiarities.

 

Thanks very much Sokol1 - appreciate the feedback...

 

Thinking about it now, I guess this is the obvious method to go by, though time consuming - then again, when comparing it to the work needed in Control Manager, it probably takes less time!  :P

 

Anyway, I have just discovered the 'Hardware, Software & Controllers' sub-forum, and oh my! Are there ever some beautiful HOTAS products out there! Especially some of the custom built throttle and such by GVL224 - some stunning offerings! Though I wasn't planning on it, now I am seriously considering upgrading my aging CH gear! 


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#19 6./ZG76_Archie

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 17:49

Thanks very much Sokol1 - appreciate the feedback...

 

Thinking about it now, I guess this is the obvious method to go by, though time consuming - then again, when comparing it to the work needed in Control Manager, it probably takes less time!  :P

 

Anyway, I have just discovered the 'Hardware, Software & Controllers' sub-forum, and oh my! Are there ever some beautiful HOTAS products out there! Especially some of the custom built throttle and such by GVL224 - some stunning offerings! Though I wasn't planning on it, now I am seriously considering upgrading my aging CH gear! 

Yes I just programme buttons through the games GUI, always have done after giving up on CM in the early days. I too am seriously considering a Virpil T-50 stick now. 


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#20 hedger72

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 20:21

I too am seriously considering a Virpil T-50 stick now. 

 

I just finished reading through the VIRPIL thread - dang! That is one awesome looking stick! I'm with you on that one Archie - something tells me that my wallet is going to get a lot lighter come 2018!


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#21 LukeFF

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 21:00

Anyway, I have just discovered the 'Hardware, Software & Controllers' sub-forum, and oh my! Are there ever some beautiful HOTAS products out there! Especially some of the custom built throttle and such by GVL224 - some stunning offerings! Though I wasn't planning on it, now I am seriously considering upgrading my aging CH gear! 

 

I used to be an all-CH user as well, but the new controllers out there today are very much a step above what CH offers. I have been using a GVL 224 controller for a while now, and I am thoroughly pleased with it. IMO you can't go wrong with his controllers - and, if you don't like something you see that he offers, he will gladly build something to your specifications, which is what I did.


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#22 Crockett

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 01:52

>We installed just 2 days ago CH manager in win10 of a friend, it was refusing to work UNTIL we closed TeamSpeak !!

 

I have Windows 10 Home and Control Manager 4.55 installed and I occasionally have trouble getting Control Manager working right. Don't know if it started with the latest Microsoft Win 10 update or not. Sometimes the "download" icon is greyed out and sometimes it's the "Mapped Mode" icons that are greyed out.

 

If the “Mapped” icon isn’t greyed out and lets me click on it but the “Mapped Mode" icons are greyed out -- when I let the program sit for a few minutes, the “Mapped Mode" icons will sometimes “come back to life” and let me click them. Other times I have to restart my computer before the program work properly.

 

I looked for Teamspeak on my computer but couldn't find it. I Googled it and it looked like Teamspeak was a stand alone program that I don't have on my computer. So -- what is Teamspeak and is it some embedded program within Win 10?


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#23 KG200_Volker

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 06:36

Teamspeak is a comunications program that you download it, not an embedded one (a very common one) Still if this completely unconnected program with CH Manager affects the later one maybe others do too.

Edited by KG200_Volker, 23 December 2017 - 06:37.

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#24 hedger72

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 17:14

I used to be an all-CH user as well, but the new controllers out there today are very much a step above what CH offers. I have been using a GVL 224 controller for a while now, and I am thoroughly pleased with it. IMO you can't go wrong with his controllers - and, if you don't like something you see that he offers, he will gladly build something to your specifications, which is what I did.


Yes, I saw the controller you had built by him in the thread Luke - fantastic bit of kit that is! Good to hear that the transaction process and the end product meets all expectations - I am seriously looking into having one done up as well - especially after seeing his creations "in the flesh" - honestly, my CH Pro Throttle looks like a cheap toy in comparison!
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#25 VBF-12_Stick-95

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 19:41

CH Manager was always difficult to work with.  I switched to JoyToKey a few years back.  It is very versatile and works well with CH Pro Throttle.  I like Inputting keystrokes into the JTKs software vs inputting CH Pro directx button pushes directly into the game.  Never had to reassign control commands if the USB gets changed.

 

https://joytokey.net/en/


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#26 hedger72

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 03:13

CH Manager was always difficult to work with. I switched to JoyToKey a few years back. It is very versatile and works well with CH Pro Throttle. I like Inputting keystrokes into the JTKs software vs inputting CH Pro directx button pushes directly into the game. Never had to reassign control commands if the USB gets changed.

https://joytokey.net/en/


Very much appreciate the tip VBF - many thanks!! I have never heard of JoyToKey before and am intrigued. I will definitely give it a try - perhaps it will help remedy some of the anomalies I have been experiencing with Control Manager as of late. I must say, the knowledge of the community here never ceases to amaze!
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#27 KpaxBos

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Posted 24 December 2017 - 14:57

Hello,

 

http://whitemagic.gi...oystickGremlin/

 

Merry Christmas


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#28 hedger72

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 00:28

Hello,

http://whitemagic.gi...oystickGremlin/

Merry Christmas

Brilliant Kpax & a Merry Christmas to you too!

A big thank you to all in this thread; all of sudden, I have gone from being disenchanted with all things CH and worried about having to sink some serious dollars into a new HOTAS (I still may do so, though at a more leisurely pace), to having several viable options to circumvent Control Manager and still get mileage out of my setup. Thanks to all and Happy New Year!

Hedger

Edited by hedger72, 30 December 2017 - 00:33.

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#29 SharpeXB

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 03:15

I have been using CH products along with Control Manager with W10 since it was released and have never had any trouble with it. CM is necessary to calibrate the controllers.
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#30 katdog5

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 06:04

Yep, suddenly in a world of hurt after I tried using the software ... game crashing every time after I set up CH manager for DCS. Total disaster.  Also, working no problem for a friend. Go figure. Perhaps  my port set up has something to do with it.  


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#31 VBF-12_Stick-95

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 14:53

*snip*  CM is necessary to calibrate the controllers.

 

Not true.  You can do it through Control Panel in the OS.

 

Go to Devices.  Right click on the CH Pro Throttle.  Right click on Game Control Settings.  Highlight on CH Pro Throttle from list and click Properties.  In the pop up window select the Settings tab.  Click on Calibrate.


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It's only a game...  It's only a game...  It's only a... damn it.

New system 08/16 - i7 6700K @ 4.6GHz, GTX1070SC ACX 3.0 8GB, 16GB DDR4 3000MHz, ASUS Z170-A ATX mobo, Windows 10

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#32 Sokol1

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 19:00

Not true.  You can do it through Control Panel in the OS.

 

Go to Devices.  Right click on the CH Pro Throttle.  Right click on Game Control Settings.  Highlight on CH Pro Throttle from list and click Properties.  In the pop up window select the Settings tab.  Click on Calibrate.

 

There's a problem with this. 

 

If you disassemble Ch joystick (like I did with some) will see that the used potentiometer has 60 degrees of "electrical travel" - like most of pot for joysticks some Saitek use 32 degrees. BTW - This kind of pot is made only for joy (and similar,e.g. R/C controllers) industry.

 

But CH joystick gimbal allow grip travel around ~32 +32 degrees for side  each side.

 

So you have a joy moving ~64 degrees and a pot reading only ~60 degrees, resulting that the control over e.g. game elevator end before you move joystick all the Y axis. The difference is small but can cause trouble.

 

But if you calibrate CH stick with Manager, this software compensate this difference in the calibration process, Bob Church tricks. ;)

 

The antiquated* Windows calibration tooldon't do this.

 

* Why no one manufacturer, e.g. VKB, VirPil  advise use Windows calibration with their joysticks, but use their calibration software.

 

A valid alternative is use DView or DXTweak2 for calibration instead the furnished by manufacturer - if this has issues.

 

This mismatch of gimbal/sensor angles happens too with some units of T.16000M stick, due bad assembly of lower part of their gimbal, easy to fix tightening or loosing the bolts in this part.


Edited by Sokol1, 30 December 2017 - 19:05.

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... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#33 VBF-12_Stick-95

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 20:55

Ya, can't say anything about the joystick, just the throttle.  So far, for my use, the Windows calibration works for the throttle.


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It's only a game...  It's only a game...  It's only a... damn it.

New system 08/16 - i7 6700K @ 4.6GHz, GTX1070SC ACX 3.0 8GB, 16GB DDR4 3000MHz, ASUS Z170-A ATX mobo, Windows 10

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#34 katdog5

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 23:38

Had a double whammy of some bad mem setting and 2 ch products in usb3 ports. all seems to be workig again

installed ch manager first, then plugged in ch prods into threee usb2 ports ,restarted. then configured software. redid all settings in game. so far so good

Edited by katdog5, 30 December 2017 - 23:38.

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#35 katdog5

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 03:50

Also, FYI From CH Admin forums: 

 

 CH has not abandoned support for the Control Manager software and are indeed currently looking into solutions to help those experiencing problems but unfortunately do not have a timetable for this work to be completed

 


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