VR_Dogfighter Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 The Spitfire is by far my favorite plane, but I have to say I am consistently being out turned by 109s and 190s in both AI and PVP games, not to mention being out-paced by them on the flat or in a climb and easily damaging the engine by overheating trying to keep up. I've had wings shot off by 109s from over 1Km away, and constantly blacking out whilst trying to keep on the tail of 109s and 190s, (Which baffles me why they arnt blacking out too??), so apart from its stability I would say it's no way OP.
Finkeren Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) The Spitfire is by far my favorite plane, but I have to say I am consistently being out turned by 109s and 190s in both AI and PVP games, not to mention being out-paced by them on the flat or in a climb and easily damaging the engine by overheating trying to keep up. I've had wings shot off by 109s from over 1Km away, and constantly blacking out whilst trying to keep on the tail of 109s and 190s, (Which baffles me why they arnt blacking out too??), so apart from its stability I would say it's no way OP. Unless you are going really slow and at the edge of a stall in your turn fighting, there is no way you are being downright out-turned by 109s or 190s. However, it is very likely that you’re being triangulated and “cut off” and shot at from deflection by an opponent with a better energy state than you. I do that constantly in my 190 against Spit pilots online. Many ppl who fly the Spit online seem to think that winning a fight is all about pulling angles and getting your sight on the target, so they run around in circles like a dog chasing its tail and are easy to pick off by a German who nows how to keep his speed up and how to time his attacks. I agree with you, that the Spit is in no way OP, but for a pure turnfight, it has no equal. Edited December 21, 2017 by Finkeren
battlefield_2016 Posted December 21, 2017 Author Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Unless you are going really slow and at the edge of a stall in your turn fighting, there is no way you are being downright out-turned by 109s or 190s. A very interesting situation indeed. NAKE350, did you try to fight 1-on-1 vs another Spitfire controlled by veteran AI? Edited December 21, 2017 by battlefield_2016
VR_Dogfighter Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 A very interesting situation indeed. NAKE350, did you try to fight 1-on-1 vs another Spitfire controlled by veteran AI? Not sure how to, to be honest? I only know how to fly against German AI planes. Sounds interesting though? Just to clarify Finkeren, there have been may times when I'm turning after a 109/190 and I black out from G's whilst the opponent continues to pull harder into the turn, so I can't be going too slow. Also on occasions I'm turning round as hard as I can, but the opponent has already made the turn and heading back at me.
Tomsk Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 The Spitfire is by far my favorite plane, but I have to say I am consistently being out turned by 109s and 190s in both AI and PVP games, not to mention being out-paced by them on the flat or in a climb and easily damaging the engine by overheating trying to keep up. I've had wings shot off by 109s from over 1Km away, and constantly blacking out whilst trying to keep on the tail of 109s and 190s, (Which baffles me why they arnt blacking out too??), so apart from its stability I would say it's no way OP. If you're talking about being on the edge of black out, it's likely you were going pretty fast. So one thing to possibly be clear on is that the Spitfire excels at low speed turning, however, at high-speed turning the 190 will definitely beat it (at least until it runs out of energy). To a lesser extent I'd expect the 109 to be better at high speed turning also, but the 190 in particular is very strong at high speed manoeuvring. As Finkeren says, it's also entirely possible to cut someone's angles and make it seem that you are turning faster than them. But you're actually not, you're simply turning out of plane with them. For a really obvious example you're turning like crazy in the horizontal, but you cross in front of my nose (left to right) so I pull up a little (make a small turn in the vertical) and get a deflection shot. The same thing can happen at different angles, so rather than our two turns being at 90 degrees relative to each other they might be at 45 degrees, or 30 degrees. May still be that I can pull a much lighter turn than you and still nail you in a deflection shot.
VR_Dogfighter Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 If you're talking about being on the edge of black out, it's likely you were going pretty fast. So one thing to possibly be clear on is that the Spitfire excels at low speed turning, however, at high-speed turning the 190 will definitely beat it (at least until it runs out of energy). To a lesser extent I'd expect the 109 to be better at high speed turning also, but the 190 in particular is very strong at high speed manoeuvring. As Finkeren says, it's also entirely possible to cut someone's angles and make it seem that you are turning faster than them. But you're actually not, you're simply turning out of plane with them. For a really obvious example you're turning like crazy in the horizontal, but you cross in front of my nose (left to right) so I pull up a little (make a small turn in the vertical) and get a deflection shot. The same thing can happen at different angles, so rather than our two turns being at 90 degrees relative to each other they might be at 45 degrees, or 30 degrees. May still be that I can pull a much lighter turn than you and still nail you in a deflection shot. Makes sense...I understand an opponent on the chase cutting the corner from a distance, but I'm being out cornered when I'm chasing an opponent. I guess it's the speed advantage as you say
DSR_A-24 Posted December 21, 2017 Posted December 21, 2017 This is absolutely correct, and one of the things that most people get wrong. Most people assume that if a plane is better 1v1, its better many vs many. The truth of the matter is that faster planes tend to be better in many vs many even in Co-Alt situations. This is because the faster aircraft can always catch up to their wingman and clear their six, while the other bandit cannot do the same. In other words, the faster planes can always guarantee a 2v1, while the slower planes can never force this. Exactly, its also why the Bf-109 is typically chosen over the Fw-190 because of the common 1v1 dogfights. Also why planes like the P-47 will be super deadly when used in a teamwork role. I'd love to see more teamwork/fighter squadron orientated games.
battlefield_2016 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) Not sure how to, to be honest? I only know how to fly against German AI planes. Sounds interesting though? Just to clarify Finkeren, there have been may times when I'm turning after a 109/190 and I black out from G's whilst the opponent continues to pull harder into the turn, so I can't be going too slow. Also on occasions I'm turning round as hard as I can, but the opponent has already made the turn and heading back at me. Quick mission, you can choose to fight against the same airplane. It's a good way to see what you can do using the same plane vs AI. Edited December 22, 2017 by battlefield_2016
Herne Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) This may be off topic but the strangest thing happened to me on WoL earlier on today. I was on the Kuban map prowling at fairly high altitude in a spit V. I see a FW passing below me, I went into a vertical dive for about 15 seconds, as he passed underneath, I gently pull back on the stick, to keep nose on target and the damn wing fell off. That's never happened to me before in IL2 and it took me by surprise. I didn't even black out. Suddenly the right wing just wasn't there anymore.Has this happened to anyone else ?http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/2676694/?tour=29 Edited December 22, 2017 by =11=herne
DakkaDakkaDakka Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 I love the Spitfire Vb in this game and it's great fun, but against a smart 109 or 190 pilot in MP - one who keeps their plane at a high speed / energy state and doesn't get suckered into a turnfight - you are in for a big challenge. And many of these pilots will work together in teams, so even if you think you're getting on someone's 6 - look behind you, his partner is probably sliding up on your tail. It's pretty easy to shake 109s or 190s from your tail with some hard evasive maneuvers in the Spitfire, but this in turns kills your own speed and energy, leaving you a sitting duck. Most solo 109 or 190 pilots at co-alt will deny a 1v1 unless they have a strong energy advantage, in which case they will make an attack run at you, force some evasive maneuvers on your part while they climb. You may be tempted to climb after them, trying to get some hits as they pull into the vertical. Because you have killed your energy in the evasive maneuvers, you are now sealing your fate. They will wait for you to stall out, kick their rudder or Split S and come back down and finish the job. Or their buddy, who you did not see till too late, will do the same.
VR_Dogfighter Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 Quick mission, you can choose to fight against the same airplane. It's a good way to see what you can do using the same plane vs AI. Thanks Battlefield..I never realised we could do that! So I fended off 3 veterans in Spit Vs Spit but lost a wing to the 4th. I'm not sure if the 3 beers before hand helped or hindered though!
VeryOldMan Posted December 22, 2017 Posted December 22, 2017 Thanks Battlefield..I never realised we could do that! So I fended off 3 veterans in Spit Vs Spit but lost a wing to the 4th. I'm not sure if the 3 beers before hand helped or hindered though! You know that science demands you to repeat the test with 3 vodkas, then 3 Whiskey at least 10 different types of beverage, otherwise yuo cannto know if its luck or not. 1
battlefield_2016 Posted December 22, 2017 Author Posted December 22, 2017 That's why being a sim pilot has enormous advantages over the real wartime pilots
Jade_Monkey Posted December 23, 2017 Posted December 23, 2017 This may be off topic but the strangest thing happened to me on WoL earlier on today. I was on the Kuban map prowling at fairly high altitude in a spit V. I see a FW passing below me, I went into a vertical dive for about 15 seconds, as he passed underneath, I gently pull back on the stick, to keep nose on target and the damn wing fell off. That's never happened to me before in IL2 and it took me by surprise. I didn't even black out. Suddenly the right wing just wasn't there anymore. Has this happened to anyone else ? http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sortie/log/2676694/?tour=29 Did you hear any strange noises when taxiing? Id say you did a ground loop and hit the wing with the ground.
Herne Posted December 23, 2017 Posted December 23, 2017 Did you hear any strange noises when taxiing? Id say you did a ground loop and hit the wing with the ground. now you mention it, that is possible, and would explain a lot. wouldn't I expect to see damage on the log before take off though ?
Jade_Monkey Posted December 23, 2017 Posted December 23, 2017 It has happened to me before. After hitting the ground, it looks like it's fine and you have no issues taking off. However, once you pull more G's that's when you see the structural integrity has been compromised and it will rip the tip or the entire wing.
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