[NEW] Saitek X-55 Rhino H.O.T.A.S.

[-=BS=-R-H]

Great info in that thread. He even opened up the stick to show the internals.

 

RH

[FuriousMeow]

It's circular when he pushes it to the limit of the stick, it's non-circular when he doesn't. Human error there causing the non-circular quadrant style range of motion?

 

I get mine thursday, I'll see how it performs myself.

[Pudfark]

Thanks tikvic....every bit helps.

I'd sure like to know, how it is in game?

IL2 BOS and IL2 1946 and Cliffs.

 

I really have more interest in the Throttle than I do the stick.

Me love my MSFFB long time...boom,boom.  

[Nage]

It's circular when he pushes it to the limit of the stick, it's non-circular when he doesn't. Human error there causing the non-circular quadrant style range of motion?

 

I get mine thursday, I'll see how it performs myself.

Ok. And please make some review here (every single info would be greatly appreciated). BTW, it seams that the handrest isnt adjustable. I hope the grip itself isnt build for big hands then.

Edited February 17, 2014 by tikvic

[Pudfark]

Well....it may not?  Be so good....

 

This fella took it apart and tried it out....so far there are 5 pages in the link below...this is a quote from his last post "I guess that I could sum up this stick by saying if anyone wants to offer me £150+P&P its thiers. :D "

 

Here is the link to the entire thread..

 

 https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/102572/so-i-got-my-saitek-x-55-rhino-early/p5

 

@FuriousMeow

Please don't let, what I wrote above, dissuade you from thoroughly "wringing" out the X-55?

Many reading here are really looking forward to your opinions on this...  Thanx 

[FuriousMeow]

Don't worry, I paid for it and I will do everything I can to see how good or terrible it is. The real problem with the X52 wasn't the squared off rotation, it was the huge deadzone that was present until resolved by the magnet mod. So they are ignoring the huge failure of the X52 in the entire post. So I don't care much for that entire thread since it ignores the true failure of the X52. 

[IonicRipper]

I'm curious to know if anyone who got a shipment notice received theirs?

[-=BS=-R-H]

Not yet. FedEx should deliver mine Thursday.

[Sokol1]

This fella took it apart and tried it out....so far there are 5 pages in the link below...this is a quote from his last post "I guess that I could sum up this stick by saying if anyone wants to offer me £150+P&P its thiers. :D "

The guy in Robertspace... clear want a "Warthog" for X-52 PRO price.

 

What inside pictures show is tipycal Saitek, if one own  - and like - X-52/X-52 PRO know what are getting with X-55, with some plus, like dual throttle, more rotaries and momentary switchs and a good sensor in X and Y (proven in Wart', T16K, G940).

 

For those that believed that only "all metal" joystick worth (and probable dont know Cougar history...), X-55 is not option, best save the money.

 

Sokol1

[Nage]

The guy in Robertspace... clear want a "Warthog" for X-52 PRO price.

 

What inside pictures show is tipycal Saitek, if one own  - and like - X-52/X-52 PRO know what are getting with X-55, with some plus, like dual throttle, more rotaries and momentary switchs and a good sensor in X and Y (proven in Wart', T16K, G940).

 

For those that believed that only "all metal" joystick worth (and probable dont know Cougar history...), X-55 is not option, best save the money.

 

Sokol1

Dude compared mid range with high end HOTAS system. Different price level. Nuff said. On a sidenote, both joysticks uses plastics (and same hall sensors) in its mechanisms but the Warthog is way more heavy and has metal grip. If you think that is justified enough to pay more money.....Ehhh

 

BTW, today was the shipping date for few forum members so I hope we will receive first reviews soon.

Edited February 19, 2014 by tikvic

[Nage]

It didnt start well for Saitek..

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/102572/so-i-got-my-saitek-x-55-rhino-early/p6

 

lets see what will hear from ppl on the forum...

 

Im all in fear LOL

Edited February 19, 2014 by tikvic

[DD_Arthur]

 

BTW, today was the shipping date for few forum members so I hope we will receive first reviews soon.

 

 http://dangerdogz.com/forums/topic/11318-my-x55-rhino-came-today/

[FuriousMeow]

It arrived today. I unboxed it and sat on my couch for a good hour just checking it all out, trying to figure out the spring changing method and verifying weight, throws, comfort, appearance and most importantly flaws. I do have one issue, sounds like there is something loose/rattling around in H1. I was concerned it was busted but after hooking it up and testing inputs through WIndows, it's fine. There is definitely something loose there though. However I will only use it as a button switch and not a hat so shouldn't be any issues and when moving the joystick rapidly on the desk I don't notice any loose sounds.

 

The build out is huge as far as the base goes and the throttle is actually probably the better part of the system. I never liked the X36/X52 throttle styles, but this one is pretty damn cool and for once it's something that can be truly called HOTAS with the number of switches, sliders and rotaries it has. The throttle lock is good, not sure which way I'll go with that yet but having a dual throttle is definitely a huge plus. For some reason they labelled the toggles and the switches independently but in reality they are both toggles. Toggle up or toggle down, reset to center. Switches would switch to one position and stay that way, so really just a labelling issue, they are actually toggles. It's great they moved them to the throttle though, that was the dumbest design with the X52 having the toggles on the base of the joystick. You can get an idea of the button layout from the posted pictures, so no real point in touching on that. The rotaries do have less resistance than the previous models but that's a non-issue. It's actually nicer to move them easier. The stick is a different direction than previous designs and significantly different in terms of feel, layout and size. I like this style compared to the previous X36 and X52, I also really like that the hand/finger guard is gone. That thing was just pointless. The larger base also means you don't need to mount the joystick down, unlike the X52Pro which I had to use velcro to mount to the desk the larger base actually supports the heaviest spring without it sliding about. I'll still go out and pick up some velcro and mount it down, but it's just not absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, however, there is less physical throw with the X55 vs the X52Pro. Just eyeballing it, probably up to 15deg less on the X axis. But I suspect that there is a possibility for joystick extensions to come along since the joystick just uses a screw lock to hold it to the column on the base.

 

Now I'm going to go pick up some velcro to secure it to the desk, and then hopefully get enough of the stick mapped to try out RoF and see how it compares in game.

[Bando]

I'm curious.

Please keep us posted.

[Pudfark]

Much Appreciate your time and effort FuriousMeow  Salute !

 

 

What Bando said above....   I'm most interested in the throttle part and would purchase the entire unit...just for that.  Should, in your opinion, it be worthy.

[-=BS=-R-H]

Grrrrr. Still waiting on mine.

 

RH

[FuriousMeow]

Until I get to testing in game, I snapped a couple side by sides with the X52Pro it's replacing. Had a few minutes waiting for my pizza to be delivered and figure some might want to see an immediate visual comparison. EDIT: And something that they removed is the Z Axis lock that was present on the X52. I haven't had a chance to test it in game yet, but as of yet it's not terribly light on the Z rotation so it might not be that big of a deal without the lock. EDIT2: And something you'll notice is the throttle. At 0% throttle the X55 is vertical while the X52 sits back several degrees. It's interesting but is a much more natural feeling

Edited February 21, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[FuriousMeow]

Here's a quick and dirty as I only had a single flight experience with it but wanted to get these notes out and then spend more time with it over the next few days.

 

Throttle, laterally wobbly by a few mm probably could use some spacers as I doubt they'll redo the molding on the assembly line at this point. Button mapping is flawless and easy through RoF's interface but since it counts as an additional device some older games will not support it (with rudder pedals that brings total "joysticks" up to 3 - so something to keep in mind). The "slider" on the X55 is not like the slider on the X52, at least in RoF's configuration panel - it acted as two buttons rather than an axis. I'll be revisiting that to make sure I didn't screw it up. The tension is nice, I set it to the least amount of tension and it requires some pressure to advance but not too much however a significant more than the X52's throttle set to the least tension. Full tension requires quite a bit of pressure and definitely requires the throttle to be anchored down. Toggle switches I can see being broken off but it would require a lot of force and carelessness. They are metal but do have a little lateral sway and the metal guards for the "switch" toggles at the rear of the unit aren't high enough to prevent lateral sheering - but maybe 3mm are exposed above that so it requires a lot of force, the proper angle and tons of bad luck to damage them. The toggles at the right front of the throttle unit have no guards but if there was enough force to sheer those off the entire throttle is most assuredly located across the room and there is probably a domestic abuse, robbery or violent altercation investigation being conducted. Cosmetically - some may care - there is a noticeable ridge across the top of the throttle where your hand would rest, at least with mine, so it's not smooth and seemless. I don't mind that but it's present so it's worth mentioning as the X52 throttle was completely smooth. With RoF I did have to reverse the throttle response curve compared to the X52. Aside from the lateral instability with the throttle, it's a solid unit. The two rotaries have very little tension to them, but I don't mind that. Currently I'm very happy with it and it's much better than the X52 in every way.

 

Joystick, amazing look and feel for me - it just sits right in my hand, and I have about medium sized hands with sausage fingers. The default spring installed is the most resistant, but feels most like the stick of the Cozy I've had the chance to take the controls of. It just has the appropriate tension unlike the flimsy limp X52.  I haven't tried to drop down a spring, but the next one down might be better because the highest spring might just have a little too much resistance. The downside of that, which is something that is experienced on the X52 as well but to a significantly less extent, is the center zone pop. Due to the concave ring that the spring resides on, it causes a bit of a tensioned pop back to center when the joystick is returned close to neutral. It's very noticeable with the higher tensioned spring, and I'll give the lower tension springs a test to see if it's less pronounced. It didn't impact my control and I don't feel it's a problem for me, but for the sake of the test it should be noted as some may completely detest it and not want the stick due to that. However, at the lowest spring available I'm sure it's about what the X52 would behave like. It is worth noting that there is most definitely a noticeably smaller range of motion on the X and Y axis with the X55 vs the X52. I haven't done any measurements, but "muscle memory" is feeling like there should be more range when there isn't.

 

I used Scotch Permanent Mounting squares to secure the devices to my desk. Also, the software for the X55 now has the ability to create your own custom curves for the joystick and throttle. So now the software is not just limited to programming buttons but can allow you to program a global response curve if you should so desire. I prefer to stick to in game because the curves will vary title to title, but it's interesting that is now part of the programming ability.

 

Overall, from my experiences thus far - I'm keeping it and prefer it much more over the X52 as I love the stiffness, the dual throttle, and the number of buttons, toggles, and hats.

Edited February 21, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Sandhill]

 

_{FM, thanks for the review...hope you really enjoy it.  The link posted by tikvic above has a picture of the source of the rattle...there's a big ferrite core on wires running from a PCB, and apparently it just flops around.}

 

_{It arrived today. I unboxed it and sat on my couch for a good hour just checking it all out, trying to figure out the spring changing method and verifying weight, throws, comfort, appearance and most importantly flaws. I do have one issue, sounds like there is something loose/rattling around in H1. I was concerned it was busted but after hooking it up and testing inputs through WIndows, it's fine. There is definitely something loose there though. However I will only use it as a button switch and not a hat so shouldn't be any issues and when moving the joystick rapidly on the desk I don't notice any loose sounds.}

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nage]

@FM thank you very much mate. Comparision pics was great idea as many of os owned or tried x52/pro. It seams X55 jopystick is superioir in ergonomy and it has even a bit shorter grip which would fit for most hands. Bitton and hat placement more convenient than in x52. Can you please test teh joystick in joy tester when you have time so we can see how it goes regarding precision?

[Pudfark]

Great Job FM...I'm much enjoying the way you're relating the info.  

I especially like your detailed remarks and photo's...I'm really teetering on the edge about plunking down some cash.

Anything else that you can relate to us?  Will prolly push me over the precipice...

Thank You for your time.

Salute !!

[FuriousMeow]

I'll do more testing with Il-2 this evening, just reinstalling Il-2 but will have to remap the commands to the new devices, and with the joytester to see what results I get in the precision of the device.

[Snacko]

I just got my x55 yesterday and made quick profiles in the HUD for IL2 1946; DCS World; and CLOD.

 

The main problem that I have is that the Space key is not recognized by the game from the stick.  I have the space key in all of the profiles and it does not work in any of the games.  It does work when I test it in the HUD test window, and also in notepad.  But the Space, Enter, and Backspace keys are not recognized in IL2 1946 HXFX7 or stock 4.12.  And Space is not recognized in any of those 3 games.

 

When I go into IL2's controls and click on another command (like gear or flaps) to edit it, and then pull the trigger (space key) on the stick, the game pops up and says that key (enter) is already assigned to Weapon 1.  But when I pull the trigger in the game the guns do not fire.  But if I press the Enter key they do fire.  So this is very strange.  I put in a ticket to Saitek, but this is just weird.

 

The space key does seem to work in FSX, so this is not a very consistent bug..  

Edited February 21, 2014 by DD_Snacko

[IonicRipper]

Well things arnt going so well on my side. The throttle works fine but the joystick plain doesnt work. All 3 axis are extremly laggy and none of the buttons work. Which sucks because everything else about the X55 is really nice.

Edited February 22, 2014 by IonicRipper

[FuriousMeow]

IonicRipper, not sure if it matters because I haven't enountered it - but check the USB port your stick is plugged into. My mobo is USB3.0 capable, but if I so much as enable it the X52Pro would cause system wide issues so I had to disable USB3.0 and run only USB2.0. Maybe your mobo is USB3.0 and the X55 is having issues with it? I don't know if that's it, but just a shot in the dark. I hope you find something soon that fixes your issue!

 

I've done a few further tests tonight, not a whole lot since I've been running around from dinner to drinks with some friends, but had a few chances to assign the controls in BoS to the new X55 and try it out. I've encountered a single negative item since that I'm not too happy about but haven't had any time to look into how best to correct it - joystick centering. The X and Y axis are off by a little on the center - mostly the X axis. It's forward of center by a little. The y axis is off center depending on which way the joystick is moved so that axis' off center is dependent on which way the stick is moved. That's definitely disheartening since the X52 had a flawless center every single time with the magnet mod. I had to do a little work with the X52 to get it to work as best it could, so perhaps this one will need some TLC as well. Or it's just broken, too early to write that in ink.

 

The springs, so I tried the blue spring, a step down from the green spring, and it was slightly less but not too much. Either way, I like both. I'm torn on them but the ability to change on the fly is awesome. No need to power off, no need to reseat USB, just unscrew, pop the lock, pull the spring holders, replace the spring, and repeat in reverse - brand new tension. It's so awesome. I know people love FFB, but aside from stall flutter I didn't experience much in the stick of the Cozy, and the handle of the Cessnas, I've been allowed to control over the years. I think just simple pressure actually mimicks control feel as opposed to the FFB stuff that causes the stick to shake with guns, flak, turbulence, etc. Either way, just a personal preference and I love the ability to change the tension for personal preference. I tried doubling up the yellow and red marked springs (the two smallest ones) to see if it added more, but it actually didn't do anything. The green marked spring was still the most tension.

 

I still have to run through the joytester and post those results, I'll get to that this weekend but overall I can't say anything other than I actually love this stick. It's feel, shape, software suite (although hardly used by myself, but the features are certainly new and promising) and functionality have me very happy. I was very worried at first, and was thinking I'd stick with the X52Pro based on the first hands on but I most definitely am happy with this stick and the throttle unit.

 

Now if I could try out a VKB stick and compare, I might lean in that direction for that stick but stay with the throttle unit. However - the fact that there is a potential market for stick extensions due to the pin layout and screw on capabilities for the stick, THAT could bring this stick into a whole different realm of possibilities and customization and something I would definitely throw money down on if I could get custom length extension for this bad boy. I don't know. I certainly don't want to say anyone should jump up and buy this right now, some are having issues - I'm not - so it's the pre-production run clearly but how much will change and what will be rectified between now and the official April release I couldn't say.

 

Still, I have joytester to run and more titles to try it out with (hopefully I can commandeer a helo in DayZ tonight and give it a shot there) so this isn't a final opinion but unless you truly need a new joystick then let it sit on your mind for a week or two and see how many more individuals review it. I'd hate to be the one that loved it, and convinced someone else to purchase it but then they hated it. I do love it though, so far at least. We'll see what happens when I get shot down. Just kidding.

Edited February 22, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Bando]

Thx

[FuriousMeow]

So still no joytester results, I have been trying to find the best joystick tester to use as joytester is very old and I would hope there is something else out there. If not, I'll use that tomorrow.

 

Just a small update on the software. So today I was having a problems with the rotaries and how they were oriented. They were inverted from what I'd prefer, and the only way to get them the way I wanted in RoF was to modify every single stick profile for every single plane - pain in the ass. With BoS it's global, but as with RoF I'm betting we'll get individual plane profiles. After modifying two plane profiles, I remembered the Saitek software suite - and within that you can invert the axis globally so that's what I did for my two rotaries. Makes it so much easier to globally modify stick control settings than individual plane profiles that I can't believe this didn't exist before in the Saitek software. If it did, I never found it. So in addition to modifying curves, axis can be inverted as well. It's simple to use and more reason for me to be very happy with this stick/throttle. I know some people don't like have to modify the throttle and stick separetly but it's actually intuitive to do it that way, especially since they can be used independently like someone could use a MS Sidewinder stick but utilize the X55 throttle. They also have mirrors for the button programming, so you don't need to rotate the stick to see all of the buttons - the mirror shows them very easily.

 

A few shots of the software suite...

 

Edited February 23, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Bando]

Thx man.

Btw: That throttle is in front of a mirror. The stick ...well,  that is some weird mirror I'd say.

Doesn't matter, as long as it does the job it's ok.

 

Enjoy the Hotas. It looks good.

[Pudfark]

Many Appreciative Thanks FM,

 

"Just a small update on the software. So today I was having a problems with the rotaries and how they were oriented. They were inverted from what I'd prefer, and the only way to get them the way I wanted in RoF was to modify every single stick profile for every single plane - pain in the ass. With BoS it's global, but as with RoF I'm betting we'll get individual plane profiles. After modifying two plane profiles, I remembered the Saitek software suite - and within that you can invert the axis globally so that's what I did for my two rotaries. Makes it so much easier to globally modify stick control settings than individual plane profiles that I can't believe this didn't exist before in the Saitek software. If it did, I never found it. So in addition to modifying curves, axis can be inverted as well. It's simple to use and more reason for me to be very happy with this stick/throttle. I know some people don't like have to modify the throttle and stick separetly but it's actually intuitive to do it that way, especially since they can be used independently like someone could use a MS Sidewinder stick but utilize the X55 throttle. They also have mirrors for the button programming, so you don't need to rotate the stick to see all of the buttons - the mirror shows them very easily."

 

That's exactly what I wanted to know.  I'm tossing my hat into the X-55 ring.  ASAP.  NewEgg had them for sale, now they're out of stock.

I'll be patient and keep on hunting.  Went to Saitek to see if they had any...and it indicates there....they won't begin shipping again until April.

Same with Amazon.

 

Thank You to All who've contributed to this thread.

[Pudfark]

NewEgg now has them in stock.  I just ordered one and hoping it will be here on Friday.

I'll report back after I've given it a whirl in IL2 1946.

[FuriousMeow]

Btw: That throttle is in front of a mirror. The stick ...well,  that is some weird mirror I'd say.

 

Yeah, it's a blackhole mirror. Barely understood by science but it works.

NewEgg now has them in stock.  I just ordered one and hoping it will be here on Friday.

I'll report back after I've given it a whirl in IL2 1946.

 

I hope you enjoy it!

[FuriousMeow]

Crap! The one thing I kept meaning to point out was the stick limits itself. I was so focused on the spring changing and testing out the tension that I forgot about it - it's squared off. So unlike the X52Pro with it's circular design at the extreme limits the X55 has squared off limits. I've played RoF in MP quite a bit, and BoS (offline obviously) and didn't it notice it much but I truly meant to make a point of it. I'm so sorry for leaving that out! I'll see if I can snap some pictures that show the shape of the stick base limits - but I think CH joysticks have that same design? Anyway, I'll get a picture up so everyone can see it.

Edited February 24, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[busdriver]

...

Edited March 11, 2022 by busdriver

[FuriousMeow]

Thanks busdriver. I thought I remembered them that way when I had a CH stick many years ago (broke in a move when a weight fell and crushed the box it was in snapping the stick), but here's the picture showing the pivot point at the base. There are degree angles etched into the base so you can see that the image is if the rear right of the base.

[oneeyeddog]

FuriousMeow, thanks for taking the time to review the Rhino and post your impressions. I'm looking forward to your opinions on how it performs in-game. 

[FuriousMeow]

In-game it's awesome. I played some BoS with it, and it was terrific. I especially love the button layout compared to the X52. For stability when coming in with altitude and speed, the heaviest springs are great as they actually aid in aiming. Close in TnB the stiff springs aid in in accurate movements (the Camel is far easier to control in tight manuevers for some reason, probably a placebo but just throwing that in there). There is no deadzone like the X52 without the magnet mod, it reads everything from middle to the extremeties. The only downside as I've mentioned earlier is that the centering isn't accurate with the X and Y axis, which I'm not very happy about. It's very close, but it still sits just off center on the X and Y axis depending on which way the stick was moved. It could be that I have a pre-production run and they'll be refined or it could be a true production run and this issue will present for all. Hopefully a mod will come out for that or a fix will be discovered. Something I will certainly be looking into. As far as in-game performance it poses no immediate concerns, WWII and later titles have trim that will be able to resolve it and WWI titles, well it's just holding the stick in the manner that is necessary to attain level flight just as it was back then.

 

I assigned my MGs to the front trigger, and cannons (or wing gun for RoF) to the grey thumb button and it just feels natural that way. Previously I had those set to a button up near the top of the X52 stick which just felt odd, caused aiming issues and was highly inaccurate in any way to maintain a consistent aiming point/target picture through the sighting system.

 

And the X52Pro had a weak connection from the throttle to the stick which frequently disconnected/shorted out for me at the stick base due to it not being secure and the only way to secure it was to hot glue it in place, so I'm glad that issue is no longer present as well.

 

 

[oneeyeddog]

I've noted that a few other reviewers have also mentioned the Rhino sitting slightly off center. I don't see this as a deal breaker though and perhaps it is a result of these being among the first  manufactured and subsequent runs will be corrected.  Although the build quality and materials may not be on par with some of the high-end joysticks l'm beginning to see this as a viable alternative at a more modest price.

[kestrel79]

Good to hear there's no deadzone. That's my gripe with my x52.

[ZaknafeinTV]

Hi FuriousMeow

 

Can you describe how it works, the mechanism of centering, depending on the spring?

 

I am the owner x52pro always irritated me that the plate is pressed by the spring. After the pictures I see that x55 is also the mechanism of the same.

 

No matter how well lubricate the plate is at a very delicate motion, feel the friction. Can you test it. When the joystic is in a central position and very gently moved left but really very gently, literally a millimeter. What's your feeling then? And what is the difference with a strong spring and the soft.

 

It is very important to me, because when you aim with surgical precision, even the tiniest resistance, it is very noticeable and undesirable. Now I use t16000m which is perfect for me. But with the passage of time has lost its precision and even now my modifications are not helping. So think about buying a new Joystic.

[FuriousMeow]

At lower spring settings it is very much like the X52 in terms of the stick flop and the ring pop when performing rapid stick movements.

 

The higher tension springs enforce smaller and more controlled movements which reduce the spring ring base popping, additionally there is a lot of fine movement capability closer to the center than the X52 (sans spring mod, and it appears slightly better fine movement than the X52 with spring mod). So fine movements for aiming purposes with the spring tha has the most tension doesn't have a popping feel or any sort of friction. As far as resistance, there certainly is that with the highest spring, as that's what is expected with a stiff spring for more tension and I personally love it. It actually makes tiny stick adjustments around the center of the stick easy in order to get an accurate firing solution when performing a high speed pass.

 

But of course, it's all personal feel and something I can't comfortably say you will or will not like. That's entirely a personal choice, and if you wait until more are in production so that you can purchase it, test it and ensure they have a return policy that allows you to send it back should it be unsuitable for your tastes then I would recommend that.

 

I certainly do not feel comfortable saying anything one way or the other about something as unique as feel that is truly an individual's preference since I don't want someone to potentially waste money on something they may end up hating.