VKB Gunfighter vs Gladiator - worth the cost?

[PatrickAWlson]

The Gladiator is $100 - the Gunfighter $300.  What does the extra $200 buy me?

 

I have googled this and not really found a satisfactory answer.  No question the metal base of the Gunfighter is better, but is it worth an extra $200?

[Sokol1]

The difference is the "Next Gen" gimbal that allow you customize movement/center fell exchanging CAM and weigh exchanging springs, and friction with "dry clutch" - what seems contradictory adding force against center force, but is welcomed for helicopter flight.

 

So if you don't are in that "Quest for the Feel Simulator" - or don't care about post in forums that has bought "the best" ("peacok" effect),    probable don't worth pay more.

 

Other main difference, Gladiator is desktop joystick - not suitable for extension (VKB don't recomend), Gunfighter is projected for use extension, but that can be used too as desktop joystick.

 

VKB has promised (and VKB promises means long time) CAM upgrade for Gladiator "vanilla", meaning spent $90 now and $140 latter.

 

VirPil despite solid products, still a bit "raw" as buyers post in the linked bellow topic. You be a kind of "beta tester" buy they suport you in that "test" replacing what was needed. 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=180448&page=163

Edited December 7, 2017 by Sokol1

[dburne]

Definitely go with the better gimbal, you will be grateful for the long run.

[WWGriphos]

I've had both the Gladiator Mk. II and the Gladiator Pro Mk. II.  The Pro, like the Gunfighter, uses the all metal gimbal and cam arrangement.  The Pro isn't built to use the extensions in the way the Gunfighter bases are.  That's fine with me.  I use it as a desktop stick (or, actually, centered on a shelf attached to the front of my desk and a bit lower).

 

If you need the extension, then the Gunfighter is the way to go.  If not, then the Gladiator is an excellent stick, although I wouldn't go back to the $100 regular Gladiator after using my Pro (which I got on sale for $200).  The Pro has no real center detent and does have spring forces that increase as you deflect from center.  This is a serious improvement in feel and handling while flying.  I'm a RW pilot, and although it doesn't really feel like the control forces I feel when actually flying (no flight stick could, I don't think), it feels very good in flight and improves my ability to control the plane and keep guns on target.  In addition, it should last pretty much forever.  

[PatrickAWlson]

I was really looking at the difference in VKB products.  Virpil is out of the question. 

 

Going with desktop and not center mounted, so I am talking Gunfighter and not Gunfighter Pro.

 

Primary use is RoF and IL2.  maybe the odd space sim.

 

The $200 cost difference is pretty significant.  I think Griphos' post commenting on the feel offers a compelling reason for the extra expenditure.  

 

Thanks for the replies.

[Sokol1]

This:

 

 it feels very good in flight and improves my ability to control the plane and keep guns on target. 

 

  

[Beazil]

For what it's worth, I don't think there is a difference between the gunfighter and the "pro", except the "pro" might come with the extension already, as opposed to purchasing later.

 

It's the Gladiator that comes in regular and pro flavours.  The Gladiator Pro has the internal gimbals of the Gunfighter, but the base of the Gladiator (not at all a bad thing).

[Sokol1]

  The Gladiator Pro has the internal gimbals of the Gunfighter, 

 

No, Gladiator PRO gimbal is not the same of the Gunfighter (desktop or PRO with extension).

 

Gunfighter has a more reinforced gimbal and with "dry-clutch" because was projected to use (20 cm) extension and the heavy (~1KG) grip of Warthog.

 

Gunfighter gimbal don't fit inside Gladiator PRO base, model that is not approved by VKB for use extension + heavy Warthog grip.

 

But OP question is related to Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla"  that use "pincer" plastic gimbal versus Gunfighter, not with Gladiator Mk.II PRO (metal gimbal, but not the same of Gunfighter). Apples and Oranges.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Sokol1

[Beazil]

No, Gladiator PRO gimbal is not the same of the Gunfighter (desktop or PRO with extension).

 

Gunfighter has a more reinforced gimbal and with "dry-clutch" because was projected to use (20 cm) extension and the heavy (~1KG) grip of Warthog.

 

Gunfighter gimbal don't fit inside Gladiator PRO base, mode that is not approved by VKB for use extension + heavy Warthog grip.

 

But OP question is related to Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla"  that use "pincer" plastic gimbal versus Gunfighter, not with Gladiator Mk.II PRO (metal gimbal, but not the same of Gunfighter). Apples and Oranges.

Ah, so that's the difference then.... Thanks for the clarification Sokol.

[JG300_Egon]

 

Gunfighter has a more reinforced gimbal and with "dry-clutch" because was projected to use (20 cm) extension and the heavy (~1KG) grip of Warthog.

 

No, Gladiator PRO gimbal is not the same of the Gunfighter (desktop or PRO with extension).

 

Gunfighter has a more reinforced gimbal and with "dry-clutch" because was projected to use (20 cm) extension and the heavy (~1KG) grip of Warthog.

 

 

 

Is the Gunfighter good for a desktop use only (without extension) ?

 

Is it not too tiring to use on a desktop ?

 

 

I got a Cougar (NN_Dan's mod)

[Piekarz]

VKB GunPro  works great in Desktop config here.
I'm using it with type 40 springs on both axes and clutch turned OFF.  

With strongers springs it feels more like FBV force sensing stick IMO.
Heavinness of the plane feeling etc. Great.

With 2x50 springs on each axis is preety stiff with extension too.
I don't like current generation of VR but in VR You really see the difference between CAM stick and standard floppy stick, night and day.
So VKB GunF...yes its a great product. Better acurracy, aim, handling,
straffing etc.

[Sokol1]

Is the Gunfighter good for a desktop use only (without extension) ?

 

 

Of course can use, just don't use the more heavy profile CAM and strong spring - if don't like a "heavy" stick.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/VKB_MCG-Pro_GF_01.jpg

 

This is the "beautiful" of CAM center system, can customize to suit for you.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Sokol1

[PatrickAWlson]

A little confusion on my part.  I look at the VKB site and everything except the Gladiator is pre-order only - available in January (date keeps moving back). 

Are these new sticks or are they just lagging in production?  

Is the Gladiator Pro no more?

[Sokol1]

Due introduction of MCG grips and Gladiator PRO need be able to use this grips, seems they postponed new batch of Gladiator PRO, as the major interest now in Gunfighter+MCG, when things "settle" Gladiator PRO will be produced again - probably as Mk.III.

 

Anyway Gladiator PRO Mk.II is listed as available there:

 

http://store.x-plane.org/Gladiator-Pro-MK-II_p_666.html

Edited December 21, 2017 by Sokol1

[Sybreed]

what's the opinion on the VKBs after one year? They seem to imply that the Gunfighter will be available soon. I might get the tabletop and buy the extension later. Are they still good after a year of constant usage?

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Mine is still operating perfectly. Very happy with it - its going to take something pretty special for me to want to part with it.

[Matt]

Some cons have popped up during the year:

 

1. Some screws have become lose, so there was some movement on the base of the grip. So i had to open it up and tighten those. I also put some spring washers on the screws that are holding the mounting base in place (VKB should've done that in the first place), that should atleast slow the rate down at which the screws will become lose. There are also reports that the original screw are very brittle, so doing this regularly might be a problem. I replaced all screws with quality screws just incase. Unless they changed anything about this, it will just a matter of time until everyone will eventually have to fix this him/herself.

 

2. I think the ministick on the top is a mistake. Its only logical function that i can think of (for flightsims) is elevator and roll/yaw trim and for that, the mini stick does not work well as a normal hat switch and it's a costly feature that doesn't offer any benefit i could think off.

 

3. I'm still not happy with the way the foldable trigger works. Similar to the trim-ministick, it's an unnecessarily complex feature with the way it's kind of a mix of a axis (allowing different button pushes depending on far you pull or push it) and a button. It just doesn't really function well as a trigger. Especially because it's basically impossible to tell when the trigger will actuate. Sometimes less is more.

 

Not really a con, but I think today, i would go for the non-Pro MCG. The additional features are not really worth it, atleast not for a WW2 sim and not if you also have a throttle quadrant. Also it would great, if they would introduce a cam between the current avaliable cams. Right now you only have the choice between a very noticable center detend or no center detend at all. 

 

Other than that, it's an excellent stick. The software is working very well and it's surprisingly easy to use. I would definately buy it again (however like i wrote, most likely with the non-Pro MCG).

Edited November 26, 2018 by Matt

[WheelwrightPL]

I had Gladiator PRO Mk 2 with a standard BF109-like grip for a while. I like it quite a lot because it feels like a real aviation stick not a toy. It mostly has to do with the way resistance works: contrary to most toy-sticks in Mk 2 the closer you get to the center the less resistance it provides. This means small movements around the center, the ones most common in an aerodynamic flight, are easier to perform in Mk 2. Also to help with precision even further: my Mk 2 is screwed-down solid to a wooden desk. I cannot recommend it enough: immobilizing your stick really makes a huge difference . And as a general comment: ergonomics are crucial so I rest my elbow on my chair's padded armrest at all times which almost eliminates any fatigue.

[Sybreed]

42 minutes ago, Matt said:

Some cons have popped up during the year:

 

1. Some screws have become lose, so there was some movement on the base of the grip. So i had to open it up and tighten those. I also put some spring washers on the screws that are holding the mounting base in place (VKB should've done that in the first place), that should atleast slow the rate down at which the screws will become lose. There are also reports that the original screw are very brittle, so doing this regularly might be a problem. I replaced all screws with quality screws just incase. Unless they changed anything about this, it will just a matter of time until everyone will eventually have to fix this him/herself.

 

2. I think the ministick on the top is a mistake. Its only logical function that i can think of (for flightsims) is elevator and roll/yaw trim and for that, the mini stick does not work well as a normal hat switch and it's a costly feature that doesn't offer any benefit i could think off.

 

3. I'm still not happy with the way the foldable trigger works. Similar to the trim-ministick, it's an unnecessarily complex feature with the way it's kind of a mix of a axis (allowing different button pushes depending on far you pull or push it) and a button. It just doesn't really function well as a trigger. Especially because it's basically impossible to tell when the trigger will actuate. Sometimes less is more.

 

Not really a con, but I think today, i would go for the non-Pro MCG. The additional features are not really worth it, atleast not for a WW2 sim and not if you also have a throttle quadrant. Also it would great, if they would introduce a cam between the current avaliable cams. Right now you only have the choice between a very noticable center detend or no center detend at all. 

 

Other than that, it's an excellent stick. The software is working very well and it's surprisingly easy to use. I would definately buy it again (however like i wrote, most likely with the non-Pro MCG).

 

you're not the first to mention the mini stick. They say they hold on on batches to bring in improvements... I wonder if that mini stick will be gone in the next batch.

 

The foldable trigger, yeah, I'm not sold on it either. I see that the MCG pro has 24 programmable buttons while the non pro only 14.... what causes such a huge disparity?

[Seb71]

23 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

I see that the MCG pro has 24 programmable buttons while the non pro only 14.... what causes such a huge disparity?

 

Check this image (the differences between MCG and MCG Pro are marked with red arrows):

 

[Sybreed]

oh it's pretty substantial actually. Hmmm...

[dburne]

I really like my MCG Pro grip with Gunfighter Pro.

So far the both are performing quite well for me.

I also like the ability to change the behavior of that top center hat by pressing and holding the button for 3 seconds. I use it for both pitch/yaw trim, and gunsight adjustments.

[Sokol1]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Not really a con, but I think today, i would go for the non-Pro MCG. The additional features are not really worth it, atleast not for a WW2 sim

 

This, in MCG PRO VKB try please "jet" and "cosmosim" players, that demand for "slew/mini-stick" and "6DOF" controls.

[TWC_Ace]

On 12/7/2017 at 9:00 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

The Gladiator is $100 - the Gunfighter $300.  What does the extra $200 buy me?

 

I have googled this and not really found a satisfactory answer.  No question the metal base of the Gunfighter is better, but is it worth an extra $200?

 

your options are:

1. Buy Gunfighter and separate throttle as it doesnt have throttle lever (optionally you can order MCG grip, default is KG12 grip, but that will be more expensive). That stick uses latest metal gymbal mechanism. You can use it on the desk and optionally you can buy extension later. You will be provded with the different CAMs and springs (more stiff etc).

2.You can wait for the next batch of the Gladiator pro (MK3 or whatever they will call it). VKB representative already posted on the forum they will be available sometime in the nearest future (ehehe). Gladiator pro has also metal gymbal mechanism and different CAMs and springs. And it has a small throttle lever on the base and many buttons unlike Gunfighter which should be used with separate throttle.

3. You can try to find used Gladiator pro MK1 or MK2.

If you cant spend more than 100$ then you only choice is regular (non pro) Gladiator. Bear in mind that one is using plastic gymbal which arent so durable like metal gmbals and on top of that both Gladiator pro and Gunfighter with metal gymbals are giving a completely different freeling during use in flight. Metal gymbal mechanism is awesome and it adds on precision, feeling of real stick and it has a progressive resistance (the stronger the more you pull or push out of the center). Yes, its well worth the 200$ price difference. I know it, I tried both mechanisms.

 

 

The problem with the screws which Matt is elaborating shouldnt bother ppl who doesnt use extensions and heaviest springs. At least thats what I think. Lighter springs and no extension shouldnt be super heavy on the screws in the base. That is for Gladiator, dunno how it is with gunfighter.

Edited November 26, 2018 by blackram

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Sokol1 said:

 

This, in MCG PRO VKB try please "jet" and "cosmosim" players, that demand for "slew/mini-stick" and "6DOF" controls.

I don't know that much about space sims, but even for jets the second mini stick is basically useless. If you have slew on a throttle, which the upcoming VKB throttle will most likely have, one could argue that even one mini stick would be useless on the MCG (personally i prefer to have slew on the stick though). In any case, i like the lower left mini stick a lot and wouldn't want to miss it. You can use it for all kinds of stuff even for a WW2 sim, using it for radiator control if you set it up in a relative axis mode (easy to do with the software) or just as view control if you don't have TrackIR (i think it's the best alternative to TrackIR/VR). 

[PatrickAWlson]

4 hours ago, Sybreed said:

what's the opinion on the VKBs after one year? They seem to imply that the Gunfighter will be available soon. I might get the tabletop and buy the extension later. Are they still good after a year of constant usage?

 

I like my Gunfighter a lot.  Been using it since January.  It is very  solid, very firm, and the way it stiffens as you move to the edges IMHO helps greatly in preventing over control.  No problems at this point.

[Sokol1]

31 minutes ago, blackram said:

2.You can wait for the next batch of the Gladiator pro (MK3 or whatever they will call it). VKB representative already posted on the forum they will be available sometime in the nearest future (ehehe).

 

Latest statement of VKB about Gladiators: 

 

"Gladiators are not on our production slate for the nearest future (I did not say "forever")."

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=3320#p32713

 

Seems they will concentrate effort in produce "new products", read "Kosmosima". IMO - They need "combat" the success of VPC Delta in space sim games. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Sokol1

[dburne]

I love my VKB Gunfighter setup and would not part with it for anything.

Seems like VKB though is now trying to play catch up. First they were showing off a possible throttle and getting folks excited, now sounds like they are moving toward

this space stick to try and compete with Virpil - whom already have a throttle out now as well...

50 minutes ago, Matt said:

I don't know that much about space sims, but even for jets the second mini stick is basically useless. If you have slew on a throttle, which the upcoming VKB throttle will most likely have, one could argue that even one mini stick would be useless on the MCG (personally i prefer to have slew on the stick though). In any case, i like the lower left mini stick a lot and wouldn't want to miss it. You can use it for all kinds of stuff even for a WW2 sim, using it for radiator control if you set it up in a relative axis mode (easy to do with the software) or just as view control if you don't have TrackIR (i think it's the best alternative to TrackIR/VR). 

 

I use that lower left hat as view controls.

Cockpit, fly by, chase, and fixed.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Pretty happy with my Gladiator Mark I (although I'm waiting on new springs as the X-axis spring broke). The feel and precision is great compared to my old X-52. I'm sure the feel on the Pro is much better but I went with this option for the twist stick and I haven't regretted it.

 

The ultimate for me right now is a Gunfighter base plus MCG Pro with a twist add-on. Supposedly this will be a thing at some point.

[Sybreed]

51 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Pretty happy with my Gladiator Mark I (although I'm waiting on new springs as the X-axis spring broke). The feel and precision is great compared to my old X-52. I'm sure the feel on the Pro is much better but I went with this option for the twist stick and I haven't regretted it.

 

The ultimate for me right now is a Gunfighter base plus MCG Pro with a twist add-on. Supposedly this will be a thing at some point.

 

is there a point to the twist add-on if I already have pedals?

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

 

is there a point to the twist add-on if I already have pedals?

 

No. It's a substitute only for people who can't or don't want the pedals. I wouldn't mind pedals but my current office setup needs work for it to be ergonomic so I'd prefer a twist setup for now.

[LukeFF]

I've had my MCG Pro Grip for quite a while as well (using it in conjunction with the stick extension), and I still really like it. I like how the upper mini-stick can be toggled between pushbutton and analog axis modes simply by pushing down on the centerpoint and how it then will reset the axes to the middle position with another short press in the middle. Ever since I received my new throttle unit from GVL224, I only use one of the two axes on the lower mini-stick (for gunsight wingspan), but I'm sure I'll find a use for the other axis.