On the topic of Thunderbolts

[Garven]

Really hope we get napalm load-outs in game at some point.  

Edited September 4, 2018 by Garven_Dreis

[ZachariasX]

10 hours ago, Garven_Dreis said:

Really hope we get napalm load-outs in game at some point.  

Best vulching ever!

[Bremspropeller]

Hot in the city...

[MiloMorai]

There is a video out there showing P-47s dropping napalm. Can't find it now but maybe another can.

[Legioneod]

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Legioneod

[LukeFF]

IIRC, that video was taken after the war ended to show what capabilities napalm had. 

[sevenless]

Can´t wait to hear that sound in BoPl. Maybe this month?

 

 

[Legioneod]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

IIRC, that video was taken after the war ended to show what capabilities napalm had. 

Probably was. Still a P-47 dropping napalm though. I've seen some black and white footage of P-47s dropping napalm but don't remember where.

[BlitzPig_EL]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

Can´t wait to hear that sound in BoPl. Maybe this month?

 

 

 

It will never sound that good in game. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

9 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

 

It will never sound that good in game. 

 

Sadly no... Though the A-20's radials sound pretty good all things considered when they start. I still get a kick from it from when they roar to life and I'm hoping for that good with the P-47 too.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

It will never sound that good in game. 

 

We'll see. I prefer to not lowball the guys before we've seen even a shred of in-game footage of it. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

The A20 does have the best engine sound in the game, no doubt about it.

[Art-J]

10 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Probably was. Still a P-47 dropping napalm though. I've seen some black and white footage of P-47s dropping napalm but don't remember where.

 

318th FG Thunderbolts on Saipan, maybe. The first usage of napalm in PTO If I recall correctly. Don't know when the first in ETO happened, though.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Will be interesting to fly this plane :) A big plane with lot of firepower.

[Cybermat47]

39 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

 Will be interesting to fly this plane A big plane with lot of firepower.

 

Definitely. I prefer German planes, but the P-47 is what I’m looking forward to the most from BoBP.

[EAF19_Marsh]

If that were a wartime video then those pilots were taking huge risks with repeated runs at low altitude on the same heading.

[Ehret]

11 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Sadly no... Though the A-20's radials sound pretty good all things considered when they start. I still get a kick from it from when they roar to life and I'm hoping for that good with the P-47 too.

 

The P2800' exhaust should be muted somewhat because of the turbo-charger. The same goes for the Lighting.

[BlitzPig_EL]

On start up when the waste gate is fully opened they sound as one would expect an R2800 should sound.

[ZachariasX]

47 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

On start up when the waste gate is fully opened they sound as one would expect an R2800 should sound.

Actually, this aircraft has its turbocharger removed, as many other restored Thunderbolts. You can see that by the exhaust stubs just behind the engine. See also here:

 

But with the turbo lever in the "idle position" those flaps are open and you get that sound.

 

Edit: "those flaps" behind the oil cooler are deflectors. The waste gate is where they put the exhaust stack in restored Thunderbolts without or with inoperative supercharger.

 

 

Notice also the time it takes for the exhaust to exit next to the tail wheel, while the wastegates already started with the smoke signs:

Spoiler

 

 

This is one fun aircraft.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by ZachariasX

[schurem]

Damn they sure did "give 'em hell" in that napalm vid. Terrifying.

[Talon_]

27 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

So, why are we talking about Hartmann in a topic about P-47s? 

 

Welcome to the IL-2 Sturmovik forums ?‍♂️

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

VVS got some P-47D Razorbacks. They did not like them much. Could be the fuel they had, not getting most out of the plane. And did not suit their tactics and flying style.

[busdriver]

1 hour ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

VVS got some P-47D Razorbacks. They did not like them much. Could be the fuel they had, not getting most out of the plane. And did not suit their tactics and flying style.

 

Not to dispute anything you posted, merely additional information. According to Butler & Hagedorn's Air Arsenal North America the VVS received either 195 or 197 of 203 allotted to them (page 272). The P-47D was offered, while the USSR had requested P-38s, P-47s and P-51s under the Second Protocol (page 74).The VVS only tested 4 ex-RAF Mustang Mk I's, they were not impressed, and did not request any of this version (page 257).

Edited September 8, 2018 by busdriver

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

There is a book with P-47D in VVS markings. Had some text Senators of something on it. Was a Razorback. AFAIK P-47D never saw extensive use in VVS colors during WW2.

[CountZero]

On 9/9/2018 at 8:36 AM, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

There is a book with P-47D in VVS markings. Had some text Senators of something on it. Was a Razorback. AFAIK P-47D never saw extensive use in VVS colors during WW2.

 

here is 4 pictures and that post says P-47D27s were with 255IAP, that squad was based in Murmansk area, probably naval cap

https://forum.keypublishing.com/forum/historic-aviation/48884-russian-p-47-thuds?p=1153012#post1153012

 

i expect atleast 1 skin with red star for P-47  

[Talon_]

Hope we see the mirror historically represented.

 

 

[SYN_Haashashin]

On 9/8/2018 at 7:02 PM, Talon_ said:

Welcome to the IL-2 Sturmovik forums

Huh?? As said in this very  same topic last week: all new off-topic posts will be deleted without warning, tired of people derailing topics to get their "agenda" across.

 

Keep it on topic, or do not post and if you cant control yourself, I will.

 

Haash

[GP*]

A question for the experts: I've read the P-47 was turbosupercharged in the past...based on my (very general) understanding of forced induction, a turbo is a type of supercharger, hence the turbosupercharger name. However, I've heard of twin charging as well...a supercharger and a turbo for the same engine. Can anyone confirm that the P-47 "just" had a turbo? Looking at diagrams now and it appears that way, but I can't be sure.

 

On the same topic, what's everyone's armchair-engineering opinion of the Jug's turbo some ~70 years later? Near-constant HP up to very respectable altitudes is nice, but at the cost of size, weight, complexity, and literal cost ($$$). Thoughts? 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Generally, superchargers are gear driven off the engine. Turbo superchargers are driven by exhaust gasses. The P-47 has all that plumbing to drive the turbo off the hot exhaust gasses and (i think) an intercooler before sending it back into the engine. That last part is from memory as I am not in front of my sources ATM.

 

Edit: Based on previous conversations, I think you already know that but for others/or just in case..................

Edited September 12, 2018 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[GP*]

3 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

Generally, superchargers are gear driven off the engine. Turbo superchargers are driven by exhaust gasses. The P-47 has all that plumbing to drive the turbo off the hot exhaust gasses and (i think) an intercooler before sending it back into the engine. That last part is from memory as I am not in front of my sources ATM.

 

Thanks HerrMurf...all true (except I think the intercooler is post-impeller, maybe that's what you were saying in the first place though). I was just under the impression that a "turbosupercharger" is an olde-tyme term for a turbocharger. But I'm not 100% sure that there's not a supercharger somewhere helping to feed the turbo (pretty sure that isn't the case, though).

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Jinx

 

Was editing my original as you typed.

A couple of vids:

 

 

and

 

 

[Legioneod]

27 minutes ago, Go_Pre said:

A question for the experts: I've read the P-47 was turbosupercharged in the past...based on my (very general) understanding of forced induction, a turbo is a type of supercharger, hence the turbosupercharger name. However, I've heard of twin charging as well...a supercharger and a turbo for the same engine. Can anyone confirm that the P-47 "just" had a turbo? Looking at diagrams now and it appears that way, but I can't be sure.

 

On the same topic, what's everyone's armchair-engineering opinion of the Jug's turbo some ~70 years later? Near-constant HP up to very respectable altitudes is nice, but at the cost of size, weight, complexity, and literal cost ($$$). Thoughts? 

The P-47 had two superchargers, a supercharger on the engine and a turbo-supercharger.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

5 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

The P-47 had two superchargers, a supercharger on the engine and a turbo-supercharger.

 

Checking various line drawings now, I'm only seeing the turbo in the rear fuselage. I don't see a second device at/on the engine.

[MiloMorai]

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by MiloMorai

[Legioneod]

10 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Checking various line drawings now, I'm only seeing the turbo in the rear fuselage. I don't see a second device at/on the engine.

Manual says it has both, I've never seen it in most diagrams either.

[Art-J]

Maybe because superchargers are internal part of the engines - pretty  much every big aero engine type of that era by the way, you would struggle to find one without such a device (not talking about "lawnmower" units like in Piper Cub, only "proper" big engines), so they're not mentioned, being something obvious. They can be clearly seen on engines drawings or on photos of units cut open - Milo's photo above it perfect example (blue-red painted impeller, diffuser and collector assembly).

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

Manual says it has both, I've never seen it in most diagrams either.

It has a normal supercharger next to the engine plus it has the turbocharger. Same as the B-17/B-24.

 

The supercharger gives you all the MAP permissible at sea level. Down there, you only have to make sure that the supercharger is spinning high to be ready for use. Even then, the turbo lag will be considerable.

 

I‘m sorry to say that for the average flying on WoL, the turbocharger will never be used.

[Garven]

9 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

I‘m sorry to say that for the average flying on WoL, the turbocharger will never be used.

It will be when I go Hartman hunting.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Garven_Dreis

[Legioneod]

43 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

It has a normal supercharger next to the engine plus it has the turbocharger. Same as the B-17/B-24.

 

The supercharger gives you all the MAP permissible at sea level. Down there, you only have to make sure that the supercharger is spinning high to be ready for use. Even then, the turbo lag will be considerable.

 

I‘m sorry to say that for the average flying on WoL, the turbocharger will never be used.

I know, that's what I said.

 

You never really need the turbo below 12,000ft, above that you'll start to use the turbo. I do agree most fights currently take place below 10k but I've had quite a few fights at 15-20k ft.

 

Germans love to fly high so I'm sure high alt fights will become more common due to the fact that we'll get a good high alt fighter for the allies, mig 3 is ok currently but not as good as it's German opponents.

 

When not doing ground missions people will naturally fly high in the Jug.

[LeLv76_Erkki]

You do sometimes see VVS fly high, for several reasons. They too like to level bomb at 4 km or higher to avoid flak, they might sweep at 4-6k to get above the 109s that look down ready to bounce to deck, or they might wait for bombers over targets at 5-7k. There will be LW fighters patrolling medium and high altitudes in the West too. P-47 will excel in patrolling high and then bouncing all the way to 10 kft or even lower and zooming back. Similar to 190 but it wont lose control surfaces as easily.