customization of weapons and aircraft options by squadron in PWCG?

[MarcoPegase44]

Hi Pat,

 

Would it be possible to add a customization of weapons and aircraft options by squadron ???.

 

For example, some units such as III JG3 or III JG52 equipped BF 109 of 2 guns 20 mm gondola under the wings to hunt Il 2 during the end of summer for Stalingrad battle.

 

BOS has these arming or motorization options. there is a potential for varying situations and confrontations while maintaining a historical character.

 

It would be great to be able to enjoy it.

 

Thank you for the work of PWCG which has many possibilities as well as BOS.

Edited December 1, 2017 by MarcoPegase44

[Cybermat47]

I agree, it would be very helpful to be able to select loadouts.

[PatrickAWlson]

I agree that this would be very useful.

 

Needs research.  I do have several payload options per plane.  I would have to go back and get an English description for each payload, put the list in a config file, and then make the payload available in the mission briefing.  

 

If I can get some help, the data that I need is:

Aircraft

Payload description

Payload Value

Weapon Mod value

 

Every payload for every plane.

[MarcoPegase44]

Hello,

 

I'm looking at this Sunday, on a historical plan .. I will go to get in my books what has actually been used in operation.

 

Even if the YAK 1, 7 and LA5, Machi 202, Bf 109 G2 could carry bombs, in operation they were used as fighters.

 

The Yak 1 and Mig3 have sometimes had Rockets.

These are the LaGG 3 which were converted into bomber fighter because obsolete fighter during the batte of Stalingrad.

 

The Il 2 began to have more two-seater versions around October 1942, previously it was one-off squadron transformations.

[PatrickAWlson]

I have tended to avoid the heaviest payloads because the AI has issues.  However, for the player's flight I am willing to let them choose whatever they want.  It really is a matter of going into the ME and recording every option, which across 30 planes is at least a couple hundred variations.

[yeikov]

Hi Pat,

 

I've compiled all the payloads for all the planes in the attached csv file (comma separated values, headers in first row). I've indicated mods which are compatible with any other payload with a value like "+010000", indicating the 'bit flag' that needs to be added for that mod.

The only mod values I'm not sure about are the Spifire ones, I couldn't set them in the editor and would need to make a test mission to verify them. For the rest, I've tried to check things while doing it but it's a lot of data, I hope there are no mistakes.

payloads.zip

[MarcoPegase44]

Very good job Yeikov..!!  

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Hi Pat,

 

I've compiled all the payloads for all the planes in the attached csv file (comma separated values, headers in first row). I've indicated mods which are compatible with any other payload with a value like "+010000", indicating the 'bit flag' that needs to be added for that mod.

The only mod values I'm not sure about are the Spifire ones, I couldn't set them in the editor and would need to make a test mission to verify them. For the rest, I've tried to check things while doing it but it's a lot of data, I hope there are no mistakes.

 

You're the man and I hope these are a useful resource.

 

I'm a little worn out from attacking airfields with the Mk103.

[PatrickAWlson]

Hi Pat,

 

I've compiled all the payloads for all the planes in the attached csv file (comma separated values, headers in first row). I've indicated mods which are compatible with any other payload with a value like "+010000", indicating the 'bit flag' that needs to be added for that mod.

The only mod values I'm not sure about are the Spifire ones, I couldn't set them in the editor and would need to make a test mission to verify them. For the rest, I've tried to check things while doing it but it's a lot of data, I hope there are no mistakes.

 

I don't want to come off as ungrateful, because you obviously put a lot of effort into the spreadsheet, however I don't know what to do with it.

 

What I was hoping for was four fields: plane, payload description, payload id, weapons mod mask

 

I can get the first two from the spreadsheet but the second two seem to be sometimes there and sometimes not.  I am betting that it is in there but I am just missing how to read it.  Apologies if I am coming off a bit dense.

 

Edit - quite embarrassing.  When I looked at it in as a spreadsheet it made no sense.  I opened it in Notepad++ and everything is clear.  

Edited December 4, 2017 by PatrickAWlson

[yeikov]

No problem, of course. Just let me know if I can help interpreting anything, or if there's anything missing. I attach the original Calc spreadsheet in case it is more practical for you. I saved it as csv to try to make it more usable but I see I may have achieved the opposite...

payloads_ods.zip

[PatrickAWlson]

It's fine - thanks.  When I opened the file in ODT it as completely mangled.  In Notepad++ and Excel it looks fine.  All of the info that I was hoping to find is in there.

 

Thanks for compiling it.  I am working on the design as to how to get it into the game.

[=SqSq=switch201]

I assume that the Wing Men's loadouts are set when the mission file is created, So maybe the best place to have it would be during mission generation, after pilot selection, but before mission acceptance.

[PatrickAWlson]

Working on it ...

[MarcoPegase44]

Hello,
During the course of the year 1942 and especially in the spring of 1943 there was more and more BF109 with reinforced armament with "gunPod" (BF109 F4 / R1 and Bf109 G2 or G4 / R6) to intercept the IL2 which were difficult to defeat with the conventional arming of the BF109.
Rustsatze
Bf109F4 / 1 wth MG151 / 15
Bf109 G2 or G4 / R6 MG151 / 20 (PayloadId = 3)
The photographs of JG 3 and JG52 at Kuban attest to this. These Rustsatze were common in the spring of 1943.
Would it be possible to be able to modulate these "Gunboats" by squadron in% as for the turrets of Il2M38. The percentage is about 25% but varies according to the periods.
This would allow meetings with AI fighters with more varied equipment and create surprises for the fighting.

Currently it is only possible to add them for his own squadron

Thank you very much Pat

Happy Christmas to All

[PatrickAWlson]

Hi Marco,

 

While PWCG deals pretty well with the reality of the air war in general, it is not a precise recreation of every detail.  With respect to gun pods, the most recent version of PWCG arms fighter planes, especially the 109 variants, with gun pods when they are sent on an intercept mission.  This will happen for AI missions as well as player missions, so you might encounter AI 109 flights with gun pods.  What is not currently possible is to specify payloads on a squadron basis, so the gun pod AI flights will be generated based on mission type and not on squadron.

 

Other aircraft, most notable the IL2, are also sometimes armed with gun pods instead of rockets or bombs.  Since the flight profile is the same as the rocket and bomb versions it's just another payload.  Not sure how the AI will handle this but they should be OK.

 

The override was specifically designed to get 37mm armed Stukas and dedicated FW190 Jabos into the game.  It is not proven to work beyond that.

 

It would take significant requirements gathering, and design work, and coding to get payloads into place in the precise historical way that you are envisioning.  It could be done but I don't want to do further work on an ad hoc basis, because the code starts to become a buggy mess if something like this goes too far without a proper design being implemented.  With that in mind, let's talk about the requirements ... we'll start with use cases.

 

For each mod, for each plane ...

Dates of use within the squadron for the mod/payload.

Mission profile for the payload.

Was the squadron dedicated to the mission profile at this time?

Did the squadron always fly with this payload at that time?

What was the flight profile for the payload?

 

Let's take gun pods as an example: 

Where they used on a per mission basis (i.e. added for some missions, removed for others) or were they bolted on and left in place?

Where units mixed, with some planes having gun pods and others not?

Did squadrons fly mixed flights?

If squadrons did fly a flight with gun pods did they fly another without to protect them?

 

These are the sorts of things that I would need to know to do this right.  Once I had a collection of use cases I could start to design software to implement them.

[MarcoPegase44]

Hello ,

 

For the Rustsatze

  Bf109 G2 or G4 / R6 MG151 / 20 (PayloadId = 3)

 

It seems that the GunPods were delivered mounted directly from the factory or adapted on the ground at the request of some squadron leaders to face the Il 2.

In theory these gunpods are demountable but given the time constraints they seem that in fact some Bf109s were permanently equipped like this Slovak BF 109 of the JG52

 

 

and that G4/R 6 of Hartman, when this 109 was flown by Meissler  which had been captured by the Russians.

 

 

 

Combat formations were mixed with equipped aircraft and others not, which was not very damaging performance, BF109 and pilots were at this time of the war still largely superior to Russian fighters,even if the Germans began to encounter more difficulties with Russian pilots is better in 1943. 

[MarcoPegase44]

hello Patrick,

 

happy new year 2018..

 

I have met a AI bf109 G4 with gunpod randomly. so it works for BF 109.

 

But, every time I meet JU 87, these are empty. they no longer carry their bombs and thus attacked the targets on the ground with machine guns

[PatrickAWlson]

Bug fix for Stukas is in place and will be included in the next drop

[MarcoPegase44]

I integrated in the II / SG1 file the FW190A3 jabo in addition to the HS129 for this unit from May 1943 ..

I met early 1932 Stuka G2 and 4 FW190 jabo ... I was with a YAK1b wing.

.

These jabos were very aggressive in dropping their bombs and we attacked preventing our interception against JU87 G2.

 

It was very realistic.

Felicitation Patrick

 

On the other hand I attacked 2 JU 88 heavily laden with bombs, these when they are in difficulty run away but without dropping their bombs and keep them until the end .. not realistic

Edited January 4, 2018 by MarcoPegase44

[PatrickAWlson]

AI ... 

 

I think that the next release will have improvements in terms of damaged planes trying to return home.  I think that I had my fake airfields incorrectly set up.  Don't get too happy though as the AI does not try to go for home until it's a smoking wreck.  

 

As for dropping and aborting, that is not an AI capability at this point.

[Yogiflight]

They do this in the stock campaign, too. When I attacked there Pe2s they turnfighted with me with four FAB250 under their wings, even after several hits in the wings. They always took their bombs back to their airfield.

[PatrickAWlson]

PWCG can only influence the AI to the extent allowed in the mission builder.  Examples of this influence include:

PWCG fighter missions are all on low priority waypoints.  This allows fighters to be aggressive.

PWCG sets WP priority to medium for otherflights, telling the AI that it should stick to the mission unless attacked.

PWCG (with the upcoming bug fix) sets the mission altitude at the correct level for dive bombing.

PWCG does make use of return to base for damaged planes.

 

That's about it.

 

Things PWCG cannot do ...

Make bombers fly like bombers when attacked.

Make the AI fly with any sort of teamwork.

Make the AI return to base with far less damage.

Make the AI show any sense of self preservation.

Make the AI care about altitude.

Stop the AI from crashing.

etc. etc.

[Willy__]

Really wish the devs fixed the AI, it really detracts form the whole experience when half or more than half of your flight decides to lawndart to the ground and there's nothing that you can do about it.

 

Anyways, thank you for your efforts Pat, really! I love PWCG and will continue to use it even with all the quirks of the AI, S! to you sir! 

[TheSNAFU]

By far the weakest part of the game is the AI. The constant loss of squad mates cause they crash so much, the single strategy of turning fights and their total lack of understanding that their aircraft is shot to pieces and falling apart with no rtb is getting very old. I think the community has been very patient. It's time to fix the AI before putting out more planes tanks etc etc.

[PatrickAWlson]

By far the weakest part of the game is the AI. The constant loss of squad mates cause they crash so much, the single strategy of turning fights and their total lack of understanding that their aircraft is shot to pieces and falling apart with no rtb is getting very old. I think the community has been very patient. It's time to fix the AI before putting out more planes tanks etc etc.

 

That part you can do something about.  I know whether a squadron mate was shot down or whether he lawn darted.  I already have an advanced parameter called AiStupidityDeathOdds in the user pref section of advanced configs.  It is currently 30, which means that one in three will die due to lawn darting.  I would recommend 10 or even 0.  

 

Now what I can't do anything about is actually stopping the AI from lawn darting, or remaining engaged while smoking, or ...