Landing without spinning out

[mikeglaz]

Every time I land and hit the brakes my plane spins out.  I tried even playing around with hitting the left and right brakes but I still end up spinning out.  Is there a specific technique to breaking on the runway?

[JimTM]

Assuming that your hardware set up is OK, here are some tips:

 

- Fly a smooth, stable approach so that you end up as straight as possible on touchdown.

 

- Pull the stick right back after touchdown.

 

- During the first part of your landing roll, the rudder is still effective. Use short stabs on the rudder to correct any turns as soon as they begin.

 

- During the later part of your landing roll, use short stabs on the left/right brake to correct any turns as soon as they begin.

 

- Near the end of your landing roll, you can use more brake to correct any turns.

 

Have a look at this video I did of a Spitfire V approach and landing:

 

 

Note:

- I'm using all the elements that I described above, except I was a bit late in pulling the stick back. 

 

- I'm flying a curved approach, which is good for maintaining visibility on the runway for planes with a long nose.

 

- The Spitfire uses one brake control (on the stick) and the amount of rudder input determines how much of that braking action goes to each wheel.

 

Hope that helps. Good luck.

Edited November 25, 2017 by JimTM

[Mesha44]

I find it helps to leave the throttle at about about 20% to keep air flow over the rudder as you are slowing down.

[Monostripezebra]

Landing up inclinations has mostly a stabilizing effect.. downwards not so much!

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgSranzWhc

 

 

You can also use differential breaking and more power to keep air over the rudder.

[curiousGamblerr]

Which plane(s) specifically? There are good general tips above but some small tricks on some aircraft.

 

For example, on aircraft with RPM control, you can drop RPM and use a little throttle to maintain control but still slow down.

 

Another example is the Pe2, where you don't want to use full flaps. I use 50% and that is on the higher side compared to many pilots I've talked to who prefer like 25%.

 

If you can share which aircraft you're working on mastering first, folks can be more specific with their tips.

[56RAF_Roblex]

I just land straight and keep it straight using the rudder until it is down to about 15-20 km/h then a gentle turn (eg no more than 10 degrees off the center line then hold that heading) to one side to clear the runway. When it is down to walking pace you can make a bigger turn. The most important thing to remember is to catch any veering early and do not attempt anything more than a gentle turn until down to walking pace.   If you don't catch a drift immediately or you try to turn too sharply while still fast then once it passes about 20 degrees it is irrecoverable.   I don't use wheel brakes for steering on take-off or landing, only during taxiing.

Edited January 4, 2018 by 56RAF_Roblex

[JimTM]

Landing up inclinations has mostly a stabilizing effect.. downwards not so much!

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgSranzWhc

 

 

You can also use differential breaking and more power to keep air over the rudder.

 

Lol. Leave it to the Zebra to find the wacky angle and take it to the next level. 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

When you land on centre of runway..

dont look outside down the runway.
Dont drive the plane down runway

look down in cockpit and drive Guide the turn/slip indicator and keep it centered that way
small gentle adjustments..
Leave on some power till you almost stopped 5-10%

[AndyJWest]

When you land on centre of runway..

 

dont look outside down the runway.

Dont drive the plane down runway

 

look down in cockpit and drive Guide the turn/slip indicator and keep it centered that way

small gentle adjustments..

Leave on some power till you almost stopped 5-10%

 

That has to be the stupidest advice I've seen on the forum. 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

its how you are meant to steer most tail draggers in real life specially the 111
(not by outside reference but by Turnindicator )

It reacts faster and predicts the planes drift so you can counter it much easier.
never left need move more than 25% from centre

Edited November 26, 2017 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[AndyJWest]

its how you are meant to steer most tail draggers in real life specially the 111

(not by outside reference but by Turnindicator )

 

It reacts faster and predicts the planes drift so you can counter it much easier.

never left need move more than 25% from centre

 

Prove it.

[Boneboys]

Assuming that your hardware set up is OK, here are some tips:

 

*snip*

 

Hope that helps. Good luck.

 

Nice landing !

 

I noted when I checked how it should be done (autopilot) that even the AI have trouble keeping the tail in tow and wondered if not some in-game tweaking was required !

I find the Spitfire to be the most difficult of planes to keep from spinning out when landing (or taxying / taxiing for that matter).

 

I can land most other fighters with + or - success but the Spitfire just won't do as I tell her !

 

I'm relatively new to all this so I'll keep on trying.

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

its how you are meant to steer most tail draggers in real life specially the 111

(not by outside reference but by Turnindicator )

 

It reacts faster and predicts the planes drift so you can counter it much easier.

never left need move more than 25% from centre

 

I soloed in a taildragger at 16 years old. That is most definitely NOT how we were taught to control the aircraft on the ground.

[myfingid]

I find it helps to leave the throttle at about about 20% to keep air flow over the rudder as you are slowing down.

 

OP, if you're spinning out at the end of the a landing, then this is what you need to do.  I mean you should be doing this anyway, but it will stop you from ground spinning.  Night and day difference.  

[WWGriphos]

I think that crosswind is modeled in the sim.  If you have any crosswind (usually you will have some), then correct with aileron as well.  Taildraggers have a tendency to weathervane.  The slower you go the more you crank in aileron in the direction of the crosswind.  So, left stick for left crosswind, etc.  

[Lensman]

In a 109 I land with 20 degrees of flaps (or more), make sure that I'm over the end of the runway at about 20 metres altitude doing 180 to 200 kph (gear down obviously) and then I back the throttle off completely and maintain the 3 point attitude until the aircraft stalls onto the ground. Occasionally I nose down a bit if I have to and then nose up again to force the stall. Once on the ground I let it trundle along for a bit to lose speed then use equal and gentle pressure on the brakes to bring it to a stop, lifting off one side or increasing pressure on the other to steer. If the nose starts to drop the back off the brakes!

 

On final approach, if you're coming in too fast then push either rudder pedal to its extreme and steer against it with the stick to keep going forwards. The added resistance will slow you down but make sure to realign the ball before landing.

 

Be sure that you have assigned the left and right brakes (where applicable) to individual controls, rudder pedals in my case and THAT THEY ARE THE RIGHT WAY AROUND - LEFT TO LEFT, RIGHT TO RIGHT and that activating the brake does so in the aircraft. It's entirely possible to configure your controls so that the brakes are on when you don't press and off when you do!

Edited November 26, 2017 by Lensman

[7.GShAP/Silas]

I find it helps to leave the throttle at about about 20% to keep air flow over the rudder as you are slowing down.

 

 

This usually helps a ton, very common mistake to zero the throttle and slam the brakes.

[Bullets]

Sure throttle helps with keeping the nose straight on the roll out but is not a necessity. If anything it just increases the amount of time it takes to come to a stop. You SHOULD be able to land with 0% throttle and use a Healthy dose of rudder / brake to keep straight and not spin out.

I think that crosswind is modeled in the sim.  If you have any crosswind (usually you will have some), then correct with aileron as well.  Taildraggers have a tendency to weathervane.  The slower you go the more you crank in aileron in the direction of the crosswind.  So, left stick for left crosswind, etc.  

 

Thats not correct If you are referring to the secondary effect of roll = yaw effect to counter cross wind. If the wind is coming from the left you would want to push the stick right which lowers the left aileron increasing drag on that wing.   This effect at low speeds is negligible though especially on fighters with small ailerons so much better off just using the rudder    

[JimTM]

...

 

Thats not correct If you are referring to the secondary effect of roll = yaw effect to counter cross wind. If the wind is coming from the left you would want to push the stick right which lowers the left aileron increasing drag on that wing.   This effect at low speeds is negligible though especially on fighters with small ailerons so much better off just using the rudder    

 

I think he's referring to the "wing-low" method of countering a crosswind. That is, bank into the crosswind and keep the nose pointed at the runway by applying opposite rudder. 

[Bullets]

I think he's referring to the "wing-low" method of countering a crosswind. That is, bank into the crosswind and keep the nose pointed at the runway by applying opposite rudder. 

 

For approach yeah but don't see how that would work with both main wheels on the ground..  ? 

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

I soloed in a taildragger at 16 years old. That is most definitely NOT how we were taught to control the aircraft on the ground.

 

What, you'd not handle that $200k Carbon Cub that way? =p

[JimTM]

For approach yeah but don't see how that would work with both main wheels on the ground.. ?

 

Keep the crosswind correction on and land on one wheel (the one nearest the cross-wind direction). Pull the stick back, keeping the crosswind correction, and let the opposite wheel settle to the ground. Now, keep the crosswind *aileron* correction but, as you mentioned, pull the throttle to idle and start working the rudder in short bursts to counteract any turning tendency as soon as it starts.

 

Cheers!

Edited November 28, 2017 by JimTM

[Tomsk]

Every time I land and hit the brakes my plane spins out.  I tried even playing around with hitting the left and right brakes but I still end up spinning out.  Is there a specific technique to breaking on the runway?

 

So it's hard to answer this for sure without seeing what you're doing. If you posted a video I'm sure we could give better answers. There are a variety of reasons for spinning out on the rollout. Most common ones in my experience:

• Landing with too much speed. Taildraggers can get very twitchy if you try to roll them out with too much speed.
• Not landing absolutely straight. Taildraggers have their CG behind the front wheels, so fundamentally they "want" to flip end to end if you're landing with poor alignment.
• Improper use of rudders on rollout. It's very easy to overcorrect and get into an oscillation, where you go strongly one way and then the other. They key is to "stab" at the rudders and never hold them.

Generally I've encouraged people to work on their rudder skills as most of the other issues can be corrected by good rudder usage. A good tip when learning is to "dance" on the rudders. The idea here is to have a strong left-right-left-right-left-right rhythm, if you want to go more left push left harder and right lighter, but keep the rhythm the same. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Tomsk

[Dakpilot]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, as only really skimmed the topic, but I don't think I saw the important point of checking that the tail wheel is locked for landing (on appropriate aircraft)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Lensman]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, as only really skimmed the topic, but I don't think I saw the important point of checking that the tail wheel is locked for landing (on appropriate aircraft)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

The fw 190 is particularly relevant.

[DakkaDakkaDakka]

What, you'd not handle that $200k Carbon Cub that way? =p

 

I don't even handle my $14.99 Collector's Edition Spitfire Mk V that way!

[KoN_]

lock tail wheel add a little throttle and rudder . 

[Dakpilot]

lock tail wheel add a little throttle and rudder . 

NOoooo! The amount of real tail wheel locking mechanisms I replaced due to accidental or intensional misuse still haunts me :)

 

Seriously though do whatever works for you but learning lock/unlock procedures and practice taxi till mastered will be worth it I will the end

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Tomsk]

The fw 190 is particularly relevant.

 

Well in a way, but if someone forgot to lock the tailwheel in the 190 then they're doing the landing wrong anyway :-) To lock the tailwheel in the 190 you pull the stick all the way back ... which is exactly how you should be landing anyway, with the stick all the way back .. and then hold it there, for the whole rollout.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Tomsk

[Oubaas]

There's some good advice offered above, but I'll chime in with one more tip, and it applies to not only this flight sim, but all flight sims.

 

Set a good dead zone for your rudder and brakes. In IL-2 BoX I use 8% dead zone for rudder and brakes. You may not realize it, but your pedals are pretty sensitive and when you're resting your brogans on them, you might be giving unintended input. The dead zones will keep that from happening, but you'll still have fully functioning controls.

[Gunner39]

Hey guys,

 

i have the same problem, it just seems that no matter what i use, rudder or brakes, the plane just spins out at landing. Is there any way to display the controls on screen, so to see if at least they are working? I have pedals, they seem to work in air, but on the land i see no effect. The only thing i manage to do, is either to spin out (on landing), either i just go straight forward (on taxiing). The needles moves in the settings, but whenever i go to settings to check, they are in the middle until i press the toebrake.

 

thnx,

[SAS_Storebror]

I've been suffering the same issue when I came to BoS from IL-2 1946. Taxi, takeoff and landing behaviour is quite different. I must say so, it feels much more natural in BoS once you get used to it.

Rule 1: Rudder authority depends on airflow. If you want more rudder authority, you have to apply more throttle.

Rule 2: Prop pitch 100% when you taxi. Otherwise prop torque will increase and airflow on your rudder will decrease, neither of this is what you want.

Rule 3: Pull back your stick to give more authority to your tail wheel while taxiing.

Rule 4: If you cannot seem to turn on ground, you might have your tail wheel locked.

Rule 5: If you cannot seem to go straight on takeoff or landing, you might have your tail wheel unlocked (note: Not all planes are equipped with tail wheel locks)

Rule 6: Use brakes. Repeat: Use brakes. In particular, use differential brakes if your planes has them, otherwise use "normal" brakes. Many russian brakes have a semi-differential brake system where differential braking is realized through "normal" brakes plus rudder position.

Rule 7: Use brake axis instead of keys so you are able to gradually apply brake power. That way for instance you can keep your brakes at 10-20% while taxiing, which gives you lot more directional authority.

Rule 8: When landing, "fly" the plane until full stop. Sounds silly? It isn't. Just imagine you were still in the air, makes life much easier.

Rule 9: Quick reaction on the rudder! Once you enter a spin for more than a split second, you won't get out of it again until full stop, so counter the spin immediately when it starts to happen.

 

Cheers!

Mike

[Tomsk]

Hey guys,

 

i have the same problem, it just seems that no matter what i use, rudder or brakes, the plane just spins out at landing. Is there any way to display the controls on screen, so to see if at least they are working? I have pedals, they seem to work in air, but on the land i see no effect. The only thing i manage to do, is either to spin out (on landing), either i just go straight forward (on taxiing). The needles moves in the settings, but whenever i go to settings to check, they are in the middle until i press the toebrake.

 

thnx

Which plane is this in? Some planes, like the 190, have very little rudder authority and rely very heavily on differential braking for taxi and landing.

[von-Luck]

Prove it.

 

Next to flat Earth conspiracy I'll mark down turn and slip disbelievers.  "prove it" lol what a troll.

 

for those interested the turn and slip indicator is an excellent tool to help keep your aircraft straight on takeoff and landing.  One very helpful way to prevent a spin is to catch it early and address the shift in momentum (as seen in the indicator) with appropriate rudder or brake.  That is unless you think your indicator is a deep state ploy to lure you into complacency . . . 

 

von Luck

Edited January 3, 2018 by von-Luck

[Quax]

for those interested the turn and slip indicator is an excellent tool to help keep your aircraft straight on takeoff and landing.  One very helpful way to prevent a spin is to catch it early and address the shift in momentum (as seen in the indicator) with appropriate rudder or brake.  That is unless you think your indicator is a deep state ploy to lure you into complacency . . . 

 

von Luck

 

No pilot in this world would dare to look inside the cockpit during roll out. No rule without exception:  RVR 0m automatic rollout in an A380

[Guest deleted@134347]

No pilot in this world would dare to look inside the cockpit during roll out. No rule without exception:  RVR 0m automatic rollout in an A380

 

initially the new user can rely on the slip indicator to understand the tail behavior during take off/landings. After several sorties they'll get a more natural feeling and won't need it anymore. No shame in using gauges imho...

[OrLoK]

i *always* use the slip indicator on take off

[Guest deleted@134347]

i *always* use the slip indicator on take off

 

I was using it to take off in fw-190 for a looong time before I figured out you need to pull on the stick to lock the tail wheel.. heh.. not reading the manual gets you..

[SAS_Storebror]

Pulling the stick during intial accelleration is always a good idea, comes true for almost every taildragger.

 

Cheers!

Mike

[Tomsk]

Pulling the stick during intial accelleration is always a good idea, comes true for almost every taildragger.

 

Even more than that ... it's standard procedure to hold the stick fully back all the time that the plane is on the ground (except during the last stage of take-off obviously). It's also standard to land a tail dragger with the stick held all the way back. That's why it locks the tail wheel in the FW 190 (and also the P-51, and probably loads of other planes also).