the 109 G14

[Panthera]

"Elevator (...) Above 250 mph, however, it becomes too heavy, so that maneuvrability is seriously restricted."

250mph ~ 400km/h

 

 

 

According to the report in question, you are right. It shouldn't happen at 500km/h but at 400km/h already.

But that's just one report.

Giving the 109 another 100km/h "bonus" might be a fair compromise.

 

Cheers!

Mike

 

But then we have modern pilot reports saying that getting 5 G's at 550 km/h is still quite easy with one hand, and with two hands above that speed.

[SAS_Storebror]

So which version of the 109 do you want to have ingame?

Messer's 1941 Friedrich or some rebuilt/restored Millenium one?

And which sources do we trust?

Contemporary WW2 test reports or memories from 90+ year old veterans?

 

It's all up to you 

 

Cheers!

Mike

[Kurfurst]

Shouldn't we expect Flettner tabs on the G-14 and therefore less speed related stiffening at least in some axes? Which controls did the 109 get Flettner tabs on IRL?

Flettners were used on the rudder on late 109G/K models and also on the ailerons in some cases.

 

A revised gearing for the elevator of the 109K to lighten a stick forces was proposed but I do not think it was fully developed and serialized before the war’s end.

[=X51=VC_]

Flettners were used on the rudder on late 109G/K models and also on the ailerons in some cases.

 

A revised gearing for the elevator of the 109K to lighten a stick forces was proposed but I do not think it was fully developed and serialized before the war’s end.

Right, thanks. So if they are implemented we might expect an easier time making aim adjustments in a high speed attack but no improvement to ability to pull out of a dive or high speed turning.

[MiloMorai]

Flettners were used on the rudder on late 109G/K models and also on the ailerons in some cases.

 

A revised gearing for the elevator of the 109K to lighten a stick forces was proposed but I do not think it was fully developed and serialized before the war’s end.

 

That should read in very few cases. It was also found that control was not as good.

[ZachariasX]

That should read in very few cases. It was also found that control was not as good.

MOD.

[Panthera]

That should read in very few cases. It was also found that control was not as good.

 

Where is this detailed? Just curious.

[MiloMorai]

Many years ago on the old Il-2 board there was 'discussions' on Flettner tabs. It was in one of those 'discussions'.

[DSR_A-24]

Many years ago on the old Il-2 board there was 'discussions' on Flettner tabs. It was in one of those 'discussions'.

Lol, what can go wrong with discussing Flettner Tabs?

[Kurfurst]

What is true of this mysterious statement is that apparently in the testing of on the K-4 WNr 330105 they did not like (no reason stated) the combination of ailerons with Flettners and reduced elevator gear ratio (perhaps there was a control harmony mismatch..?, and the combination of ailerons with Flettners and the 'old' elevator gearing was preferred.

 

Apart from that, an earlier testing showed that the ailerons with Flettners could be still deflected 2/3s of their max range at Mach .75, forces were equal and there was no aileron overbalance occurring. So one wonders whether the statement holds any truth.

 

In any case, here are a couple of nice pictures of 109 ailerons with and without Flettner tabs, the cross section of aileron and rudders with Flettners from the Bf 109K-4s operating manual, and a couple of pictures of late 1943 serial production G-6s produced in Wiener Neustadt, Austria with aileron Flettners (via Radinger/Schick) and a couple of G-10s wrecks at the war's end also with Flettners on the ailerons (via Janda/Poruba).

 

Also if you look at Grislawski's personal mount photographed in September 1943 very carefully, you will notice a tiny tab on the ailerons...

 

BE WARNED that you might be triggered by seeing German WW2 markings on 70 year old photographs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDITED to comply with Forum rules for certain national insignia during WW2.

Edited January 4, 2018 by VO101Kurfurst

[MiloMorai]

The pilots did not like the lack of precision with the Flettner ailerons. For a modern example it was like the early power steering on cars.

 

Strange that only a penny packet number of 109s were so equipped out of the 10,000 or so produced late war.