Jazzed about Flying Circus - Thoughts on Plane Set

[BraveSirRobin]

With the barebones airquake planeset for both Bodenplatte and Flying Circus, plus the MP novelty tank sim; I don't think there's much in it for me with regards to new stuff in 2018.

 

Aren’t they planning to make the Li-2? You can pretend to shuttle command officers around.

[unreasonable]

Ils und Panzers. Und Kannonenstukas. Tank expansion will be gift to all wannabe Rudels who want to strafe and bomb something that curses you back on chat  .

 

Maybe. But do not be surprised if the tankies set up their own servers with permanent 100% cloud cover - or even no aircraft - so they can blow one another up in peace - so to speak.

[Monostripezebra]

Maybe. But do not be surprised if the tankies set up their own servers with permanent 100% cloud cover - or even no aircraft - so they can blow one another up in peace - so to speak.

 

naaa. it is fun to shoot back.. especially the straight line close in approach of new Il2players ;=)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6GhtCC7_Co

[Gambit21]

With the barebones airquake planeset for both Bodenplatte and Flying Circus, plus the MP novelty tank sim; I don't think there's much in it for me with regards to new stuff in 2018.

Bodenplatte is full of mud movers - "AirQuake" my arse.

[J2_Trupobaw]

Maybe. But do not be surprised if the tankies set up their own servers with permanent 100% cloud cover - or even no aircraft - so they can blow one another up in peace - so to speak.

I wonder if it will be possible to fly Halberstadt Cl.II "alongside" the WWII tanks... and if 50kg bomb would be enough to damage these beasts. 

 

If so, they can set cloud cover on server at 30m . Who cares if it's anachronistic .

Edited December 7, 2017 by LsV_Trupobaw

[Sotka94]

I'm excited to see WW1-planes in modern graphics. I also hope Flying Circus will find success, so that all the planes from Rise of Flight will be included in later volumes, and then perhaps some completely new planes! Sopwith Snipe, anyone? Or Albatros DIII Oeffag... Macchi M.5 flying boat... I'd even like to attempt to fly the eccentric Hansa-Brandenburg D.I Just think of the possibilities...

 

 

And for all the bomber enthusiasts out there :

 

I've taken to flying the Dolphin recently, and I'm loving it so far (after changing the camera position to aim through the aldis sight and removing the two top guns, replacing them with the wing guns). Fast, possessing heavy firepower, and strangely beautiful in its own special way, I'd certainly not complain if it were kept in the Volume 1 plane set. I'm also fond of the Pfalz D.III for its looks, dependability in a dive (as long as I remember to throttle back before the dive ) and its eternal status as the unloved underdog... really, there isn't a plane I'd like to remove (Edit: Or not include), but since all the late-war planes do not fit in one volume... I can wait. I understand the arguments for more two seaters, so I'd be willing to drop something...grudgingly  . We will still have Rise of Flight, with not one, but two career modes (thank you Pat )

Edited December 20, 2017 by Habsburger

[PatrickAWlson]

When the time comes I am gong to do something to merge RoF and FC within PWCG.  Allow the user to switch between RoF and FC within the same career as they wish.  As time goes by and more WWI content is developed FC would move the forefront while RoF is slowly moved to the background.  Even if we are lucky and 1C commits heavily to FC it is going to be years before its content approaches RoF,  Until then players can continue to enjoy RoF for what it offers.  Who knows if we will ever see the eastern front in WWI again (I always enjoyed starting my career in the east and then transferring west).  

[dburne]

When the time comes I am gong to do something to merge RoF and FC within PWCG.  Allow the user to switch between RoF and FC within the same career as they wish.  As time goes by and more WWI content is developed FC would move the forefront while RoF is slowly moved to the background.  Even if we are lucky and 1C commits heavily to FC it is going to be years before its content approaches RoF,  Until then players can continue to enjoy RoF for what it offers.  Who knows if we will ever see the eastern front in WWI again (I always enjoyed starting my career in the east and then transferring west).  

 

 

 

Sounds great!

Thanks so much for all you do!!

[Sotka94]

 

 

When the time comes I am gong to do something to merge RoF and FC within PWCG. Allow the user to switch between RoF and FC within the same career as they wish.

 

...That sounds amazing, better than anything I dared hope. And the official career mode will hopefully also benefit from the new improvements to the BoX-careers (though we've yet to experience and evaluate them, but I'm optimistic they'll be good)

 

What planes does everyone think will come out first? What are the planes you wish would come out first?

[PatrickAWlson]

...That sounds amazing, better than anything I dared hope. And the official career mode will hopefully also benefit from the new improvements to the BoX-careers (though we've yet to experience and evaluate them, but I'm optimistic they'll be good)

 

What planes does everyone think will come out first? What are the planes you wish would come out first?

They listed the plane set.  Four single seat scouts and 1 two seater for each side, focused on late 1917 - 1918.  From memory: Albatros D.Va, Pfalz D.III, Fokker DRI, Fokker D7, Halberstadt CL.II, Sopwith Camel, Sopwith Dolphin, SE5a, SPAD XIII, Bristol F.2b.

 

No idea what comes after that.  I hope like heck there is some emphasis on two seaters, but we'll see.

Edited December 20, 2017 by PatrickAWlson

[Sotka94]

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very clearly! 

I meant in the same way as with Bodenplatte early access, where Spitfire Mk IX and Bf 109 G-10 are most likely coming to early access first. I assume Flying Circus will have a similar early access program? So I was wondering what are the first FC planes we get to try out. Apparently the devs have already tested the Fokker Dr.I in-game (with Fw 190's flight model  ), and it reportedly looked great. I'd hazard a guess that we'll be getting something simpler to fly first, such as the D.Va, but I'm curious to know what others think.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Habsburger

[PatrickAWlson]

Not sure, but I certainly wouldn't mind taking on some Camels in a DRI with a FW190 flight model

[TP_Sparky]

On 12/20/2017 at 1:32 PM, Habsburger said:

."..in the same way as with Bodenplatte early access, where Spitfire Mk IX and Bf 109 G-10 are most likely coming to early access first. I assume Flying Circus will have a similar early access program? So I was wondering what are the first FC planes we get to try out. ...I'd hazard a guess that we'll be getting something simpler to fly first, such as the D.Va, but I'm curious to know what others think."

Perhaps the easiest will be inline engines so S.E.5a and Fokker D.VII or Pflaz D.IIIa or Albatros D.Va would be my first guess.  The SPAD XIII C.1 and Camel are also possible choices in my opinion because of their fame and the former brings France and the U.S. into play.

Edited March 9, 2018 by slparker17

[Gambit21]

I'm really looking forward to the WWII stuff.

 

[Vig]

The Breguet is a big favorite of mine, too, I would love to have it in the initial batch.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Vig

[Oubaas]

Pup vs. Halberstadt.

[Poochnboo]

All of the complaining about the plane set. Geez. They have to start somewhere, so they went with these. You have to know, I think, that eventually the game will have all of the planes presently in ROF, and most likely even more. I personally prefer the middle war airplanes. The Nieuport 17 and the Sopwith Pup are my favorites. They're coming, I know. Two seaters? Of course they'll be in the game. Relax, boys. They can't give ya everything at once. Meanwhile, I'll be spending my time in the skies of 1918 in the Camel and SE-5. 

  Frankly, though. I'm in no rush to see this released because I still think that the original ROF is terrific. I still fly it and I've had it since it's release date. It's one of the very few games that I've ever pre-ordered. 

[Herne]

3 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

All of the complaining about the plane set. Geez. They have to start somewhere, so they went with these. You have to know, I think, that eventually the game will have all of the planes presently in ROF, and most likely even more. I personally prefer the middle war airplanes. The Nieuport 17 and the Sopwith Pup are my favorites. They're coming, I know. Two seaters? Of course they'll be in the game. Relax, boys. They can't give ya everything at once. Meanwhile, I'll be spending my time in the skies of 1918 in the Camel and SE-5. 

  Frankly, though. I'm in no rush to see this released because I still think that the original ROF is terrific. I still fly it and I've had it since it's release date. It's one of the very few games that I've ever pre-ordered. 

 

I really enjoyed RoF. Then BoX got VR, and I've hardly played RoF since.  When Flying circus comes along I dare say I will be doing a lot of time travelling between 1918, and mid 1940's

[Wolfram-Harms]

On 6.12.2017 at 5:13 PM, unreasonable said:

...do not be surprised if the tankies set up their own servers with permanent 100% cloud cover - or even no aircraft - so they can blow one another up in peace - so to speak.

 

Mmuahahahahaaa!!!

Yeah, I bet it's annoying when the air forces take away their prey from them!

 

 

[Wolferl_1791]

I'm really excited for VR in this game. If RoF had VR I probably wouldn't even be playing IL-2 at all.

My only problem with this line-up is that I used to fly mainly 1916 planes. They went for the most recognizable and most powerful planes of the war. I can see the marketing value in that, but I for one can't wait to see the earlier planes as well.

[TP_Sparky]

I favor the Breguet XIV replacing the Sopwith Dolphin in the initial batch.  Only four RAF squadrons flew the Dolphin as primary aircraft although others used it in small numbers.  The Breguet XIV was used by many nations in great numbers and serves for artillery observation, photo recon and bombing, three primary missions.  

 

We need the Breguet for its flexibility and to round out the French/US contingent.

[Poochnboo]

Yeah, and the Breguet can really hold it's own in a fight! It's not some big slow cow like the RE-8. It can manuever. And this game in VR. Wow, I can't even imagine how cool that would be. Can't afford it, though. My rig couldn't even handle it, anyway. But you guys who have it, when this comes out get yourselves a big fan. Put it in front of you, pointed right at your face. Then, when you start your engine switch the fan on. I would just have to do it!

Edited March 11, 2018 by Poochnboo
added a sentence

[xvii-Dietrich]

It seems they are starting with either late-war or iconic aircraft. That will make a good splash, but will possibly not lead to the most revenue, business-wise. Imagine the sales if they released IL-2 in the order BoK -> BoS -> BoM, compared to BoM->BoS->BoK. Some players will get new additions to get "iconic" aircraft, or will get new editions to get "better" aircraft (or both... in the case of the Bf 109 G-6). If you start with high-performance and iconic aircraft and then work backwards to the more obscure, poor performers, only the enthusiasts will get those new editions.

 

Certainly including some iconic aircraft will be necessary to catch attention – especially of a wider, more general audience. But playing all the trump-cards up front seems a rather short-sighted gambit.

 

So, here's a somewhat radical alternative...

 

- SPAD 13 C.1 --> SPAD 7.C

- Sopwith Dolphin --> Sopwith Pup

- Sopwith Camel

- RAF S.E.5a --> Sopwith 1½ Strutter

- Bristol Fighter --> Breguet 14.B2

- Albatros D.Va --> Albatros D.III

- Fokker Dr.1

- Fokker DVII --> Halberstadt  D.II

- Pfalz D.IIIa

- Halberstadt CL.II

 

Thus, you still get your "Snoopy/Red-Baron Camel-Dr.I" match up that people who know little about WWI will recognise. However, you save the "high-powered" upgrades of the SPAD.XIII, Fokker.DVII, etc. for FCv2, FCv3, etc...

 

The people reading this are already enthusiasts, but represent only a small fraction of the market. I suspect that the Steam sales of the RoF DLCs will probably give the developers a better picture of what players go for in a set. I don't know, but I am guessing that the "Birth of Warbirds" is not as popular as the "Ultimately the Best Fighter" DLC.

 

Of course, I realise the above plane set suggestion is "somewhat radical" (I wonder if I should dare post my "totally radical" set?)... it is just a different perspective on how to maximise longevity of FC to ensure the series is a success and we are happily arguing over the content of FCv15 in a decades time.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Flying Circus Vol 1 needs to be a big enough success to justify a Vol 2 and that each release will build up the content list over time. I had a look back and I can see a number of interesting 1917 types and then they can go from there.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Personally I don't see any issue with their planeset. It's almost identical with the Iron Cross Edition (still have that box with the france map - will be handy for Flying Circus!) and includes most popular aircraft of late war. I don't see this being a threat for further sales with early period aircraft either as this wasn't a case in RoF.

 

The only wish I had not for this but further plane sets is to include more bombers / assault aircraft. Can't wait to take seat in my Gotha with 4k skin.

[Trooper117]

I realise now that this newer version of RoF will not come with a sterling SP campaign and it's going to be geared for the MP gang, is that correct?

[Sotka94]

1 hour ago, Trooper117 said:

I realise now that this newer version of RoF will not come with a sterling SP campaign and it's going to be geared for the MP gang, is that correct?

 

At first, yes. As I understood it, first priority is to quickly get a bunch of the most popular RoF-planes into our hands in Volume.I,  in order to test the marketing viability of WW1-planes (and throw a bone for us long-suffering Rise of Flight fans), and that career mode and a larger map would come in subsequent volumes. It's a shame since I much prefer single-player myself. But Pat Wilson's already mentioned he has plans for FC , hopefully in the future PWCG could be launched inside the game like in Rise of Flight...

 

Including the Brequet and DFW would most likely make sense, though it pains me to say that, as they are probably my least favourite planes to fly in Rise of Flight and the ones I'm the least interested in. If the Dolphin and my beloved Pfalz were to be replaced, I'd personally prefer to fly the Handley-Page and Gotha instead. Now those are some lovely multi-crew planes. Would take a bit more time, though...

Edited March 12, 2018 by Habsburger
Grammar

[SqueakyS]

I think the devs have done it right. Not many people know about WW1 aviation and of the people I know its either late or early war planes they know so having the most iconic late war planes in one pack should draw in most people and get them interested in enough to keep buying late packs.

[Wolfram-Harms]

I'd love to see them making maybe three packages: 1916, 1917 and 1918.

As an additional box they could then craft more for a package 1915 (there was very little air activity compared to the later stages).

 

For each package we'd need the most relevant aircraft of that phase.

"Exotic Birds" or aircraft which came only in smaller numbers could be crafted as "Fan's Planes".

 

If they just started with "Flying Circus: 1916", they'd have stuff to produce for years to come with the other parts,
and we could play it in a certain logical and historical order.

[ATA_Vasilij]

sooo excited about Flying Circus, that probably IL2 will move away of my further interest.... Love biplanes!

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I just miss in this setup Nieuport 28 C.1, it was my favourite plane in RoF. Even if many really disliked it, I found it very appealing (not only visually but also in terms of performance). And it had those anti-balloon guns.

[Gambit21]

Nieport 28 was one of my favorites. Also a Fokker DVIII fan.

[SeaW0lf]

22 hours ago, xvii-Dietrich said:

But playing all the trump-cards up front seems a rather short-sighted gambit.

 

They have to and I would have done it as well. FC has to go balls to the wall on its first iteration and a lot of people will buy it just because of the planes involved.

 

Besides they can sell some two-seaters as collector planes. I would imagine the Gotha and the HP would be a collectible. And they can later on release a Rumpler with a special fitted Maybach 285hp for high altitude recons. Or a Jacobs 130hp Clerget Dr.1. Or a McCudden SE5a supercharged and with a new spinner (the latter two I imagine for SP or special duel servers). And that sort of premium aircraft. 

 

For FC 2 they have the Nieuports, Pup, Tripehound and Albies and Halbies and such, and Bloody April. These two periods (1916-1917 and 1918) are rich in terms of history and legendary aircraft and pilots, more so 1916-1917 in terms of lone wolfs and the whole WWI mystique. I just would go with 1918 first because it has to be a success in sales and it has some of the most iconic planes of the war, and I imagine it will sell pretty well under the Il-2 community umbrella.

 

Then, after FC 1, they can ride the wave and be more eclectic.

Edited March 12, 2018 by SeaW0lf

[SeaW0lf]

17 hours ago, Sambot88 said:

I would really like to see some actual data on these decisions. I mean they're obviously going to make whatever decision they think will get the game developed for as long as possible, but what metrics are they using to make that decision and how does one look at them?

 

The sort-of-tropey idea that Multiplayer sells better in general has sort of come unraveled as more statistics are made available with digital distribution and platforms like Steam that can track actual usage. If I dabble in MP it will only be as a sideshow to the single player campaign, and if the single player campaign does not feel like a complete game from the get-go then I probably won't buy it. Just in general, that is. PWCG will probably mean I can make an exception here.

 

Multiplayer is the vanguard of simulators nowadays. If there was no multiplayer, most of these changes that happened in the last few years involving FM, DM and so on would not happen. Another thing is that no one will stop to watch a YouTube video of someone fighting AIs. In general, whoever posts this type of video is a child, pre-adolescent. No one cares aside kids as well. Unless it is a single player video to present a new patch with changes to the graphics.

 

That is, multiplayer is the flagship in my opinion, even if it is not the leader in sales. A happy multiplayer community makes the forum boil in comments and positive feedback - vide the Kuban patch, which gave new life to the BOX series. Or the FM change of the FW 190. At the other side, go to DCS forum. There is nobody there. I spent more than a month without checking their forum and now, when I got there, the WWII section has one (no kidding, just one) topic with new posts. Seriously, only one topic updated in more than a month? The place is a desert with no one in sight. Why? Multiplayer is a mess, the planes in general have no damage model, you see Mustangs flying with one wing, graphics and visibility suck bad, therefore multiplayer and game-play are virtually unplayable. I uninstalled the game and the last time I saw there were a couple players on prime time US in the most popular server for Normandy.

 

Does that help sales? I don't think so. Not for a bit. Then Il-2 announced the new modules and DCS woke up and started to run to close the gap just like Intel is doing after Ryzen caught them off guard.

 

So in my opinion a simulator with a weak multiplayer base is doomed to fail from the start. There has to be a balance in between SP and MP development, but people in general need to understand that MP is the flagship and everyone gains with it. Who wants to fly a simulator with planes flying with one wing and bombers being shot down with one burst? Or a simulator with a visibility so bad that you have to use lables? I reckon some people don't care, but in general people care. You can see that from the feedback in BOX over the last months after the Kuban patch.

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

 There has to be a balance in between SP and MP development...

 

There it is ^

Nuff said.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

Multiplayer is the vanguard of simulators nowadays.

 

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

That is, multiplayer is the flagship in my opinion, even if it is not the leader in sales.

 

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

Does that help sales? I don't think so. Not for a bit

 

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

So in my opinion a simulator with a weak multiplayer base is doomed to fail from the start.

 

My logic failure alarm is going off reading all this.

[Vig]

To my mind RoF had the best multiplayer experience ever.  The vast majority of the players on the main servers were great people - knowledgeable, fun-loving, mannerly, sportsmanlike.  I am a *huge* fan of big-gun era naval games but, despite devoting a good deal of time and money to it, I was unable to continue to play a well-known online world naval simulation because of the great number of immature and toxic players present, who dish out torrents of abuse and justify it with some "e-sports" rationale.   I don't want any part of anything remotely like that, and I have no problem whatsoever with people who enjoy playing against the AI.  People have different levels of ability and some can devote less time to the game than others.  To dismiss such people as children, lesser beings than the online e-sports gods, is symptomatic of the very things I cannot abide in online-only games.

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Vig

[SeaW0lf]

5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

My logic failure alarm is going off reading all this.

 

Perhaps you are stuck in the 90s.

[Feathered_IV]

Seawolf, Jason mentioned in the live video stream on November 18 that the multiplayer community makes up just 10% of the Il-2 customer base.  That blows all your IMHO's out of the water.

[SeaW0lf]

1 minute ago, Feathered_IV said:

Seawolf, Jason mentioned in the live video stream on November 18 that the multiplayer community makes up just 10% of the Il-2 customer base.  That blows all your IMHO's out of the water.

 

Like I said, it is a 10% that makes up for the other 90%. If you believe that kind of stuff, go play DCS... With nobody.