Jazzed about Flying Circus - Thoughts on Plane Set

[TG-55Panthercules]

Still haven't come down from the high of seeing the news about Flying Circus Vol.1 in the big announcement - super kudos to Jason and the team for showing the RoF faithful some major love.

 

I think the incremental approach of breaking it into several potential volumes and starting out with the first volume focused on the late war period (late 1917-1918) is a good one, given that it includes almost all of the truly iconic aircraft even most casual players with any familiarity with WWI aviation are likely to recognize and want.  Of course, we want to see a lot of the other great RoF content make its way into the new Digital Warfare Engine/IL-2 Battles environment, but we can certainly (although maybe not patiently ) wait for subsequent volumes to see that happen.

 

 According to the announcement, the following plane set is being considered for FC1:

 

Planned to be Included in Flying Circus – Volume I

 

Flyable Aircraft and Content (Tentative List):

- SPAD 13 C.1

- Sopwith Dolphin

- Sopwith Camel

- RAF S.E.5a

- Bristol Fighter

- Albatros D.Va

- Fokker Dr.1

- Fokker DVII

- Pfalz D.IIIa

- Halberstadt CL.II

 

I think the choice of planes for the Central powers is pretty much perfect under the circumstances (assuming that the FD7 and HCL2 will come with both engine versions available in some fashion so they won't need to be treated as different/separate plane types). 

 

However, I do have one suggestion for the Entente plane set.  I hope the devs will consider removing the Dolphin and adding instead either the DH4 (flown by British and US) or, probably better, the Breguet 14 (flown by French, Belgian and US).  That way, each side would basically have 4 fighters and 1 recon/bomber/ground attack plane, and adding the Breguet in particular would enable a larger number of interesting mission options to tide people over until we get more of the RoF content moved over in subsequent releases.

 

In any event, awesome and unexpected news - THANKS!!

Edited November 18, 2017 by TG-55Panthercules

[Alexmarine]

I think that the Bristol is being the counterpart to the HCL.II as the Allied two-seater. Moreover some of the fighter can also be used as fighter-bomber for them. The plane set doesn't look that bad (even if I would love to see the Breguet).

[Feathered_IV]

I agree. The all-fighter gameplay is just shallow. I don’t know why we have to keep saying this.

[TG-55Panthercules]

I think that the Bristol is being the counterpart to the HCL.II as the Allied two-seater. Moreover some of the fighter can also be used as fighter-bomber for them. The plane set doesn't look that bad (even if I would love to see the Breguet).

 

Well, yeah, you can actually arm all 5 of the proposed Entente planes with some bombs, but all of them were designed/intended primarily to be fighters - not quite the same as having a purpose-built bomber/recon type.  I don't think their proposed plane set looks bad - I just don't think the Dolphin adds much that isn't already available with the other 4 Entente types, whereas a Breguet would, IMHO (both in terms of mission types and in terms of air services that flew it).

Edited November 18, 2017 by TG-55Panthercules

[TyphoonOneB]

Hi Panthercules,

 

I fully agree with the 'high' and level of excitement gained from this announcement 

 

It'll be great to see RoF taken to the next level in terms of graphics and technologies. The planeset is, in my opinion, a very good choice to begin with and is sure to be expanded upon in future releases. I have to say I was surprised seeing the Dolphin in there, as it adds yet another fighter to the picture (which also wasn't used to the same extent as many other planes). The bombers (HP 400, etc) would be great to see flying again in this new sim and I expect they will take much longer to produce, but the fighter/bombers are more than enough for me. 

[Alexmarine]

Some Observer plane would also be nice...

 

The plane that interest me the most in the set is the Halberstadt as I started to have an interest over the Schlachtstaffeln operations during the war. What I am waiting for is confirmation of a career mode for the WWI scenarios too...

[HippyDruid]

This announcement alone, was well worth the money invested in the last few years.

I simply can't wait to fly these crates in VR.

 

Is it safe to assume we will see the D.VIIF too?

[TG-55Panthercules]

Is it safe to assume we will see the D.VIIF too?

 

Well, based on what I've been seeing posted since the announcement it seems likely that the variations (like D.VII/D.VIIF and HCL2/HCL2a) that were basically just different engines should be able to be handled in the BoX/FC environment like loadout/mods, so they wouldn't need to be treated like two separate plane types like they were in RoF.  I hope that's right, but it would be nice to get some confirmation from the devs at some point, when they get a chance.

[BMA_FlyingShark]

I hope they make us a Fokker DVII with aü engine.

 

[Danziger]

I think Plank really wants to swap the Dolphin for a Nieuport 28.C1.

[BraveSirRobin]

I agree. The all-fighter gameplay is just shallow. I don’t know why we have to keep saying this.

Maybe because you’re butthurt about being in the minority? I’m pretty sure Jason knows which are the most popular aircraft and picked the plane set accordingly.

[Danziger]

If the fighter heavy new releases seem like a shameless money grab, it's probably because it is. These guys have been catering to a niche within a niche for years now. If anybody deserves to cash in on a sure thing it's this team. It will bring the funding for further obscure uncool planes that sim hipsters enjoy.

[xvii-Dietrich]

TL;DR

 

The "tenative list" propsed by Jason Williams looks like a really good start. But, I'd swap the Dolphin for a Nieuport.

 

 

 

Full comment

 

EDIT : Originally I commented on looking forward to FC1+VR... however, last week (02-Jul-2018), I tried VR for the very first time and was less than impressed. Although I am certainly looking forward to FC1... I think I'll skip on the VR bit, at least until better VR is available.

 

If I think about it objectively, then I think it is actually a pretty good list. Both sides need something "iconic" and the Sopwith Camel and Dr.I do that. The Spad 13 and Fokker DVII are the high-performance end, and the Albatros DV and S.E.5a are the work-horses.

 

Both sides need a bomber/observer, and the Bristol and the CL.II fill those roles. I thought it was interesting to go for the CL.II over the DFW.CV. The planeset is relatively late, and CL.II seems a little weaker. But it's still okay. The Bristol is a good bomber/ground-attack. It can be used as an observer too (quite an aggressive one!). It is a good place to start.

 

The Pfalz D.III is okay, but it could easily be something else.

 

The one I'm doubtful about is the Dolphin. Sure it is late war, and I suppose it could be used as ground attack too. But it seems a little out of place. What would I choose instead? Well, I think a Nieuport of some description makes sense, probably the N.17, rather than the N.28. The current set has no French aircraft, and the N.17 has the advantage of being useable by RFC units too.

 

So, apart from the Dolphin, it looks like a good solid start.

 

 

 

 

PS:  However... as anyone would probably guess, personally speaking, I'd like to have a seaplane. Any of the seaplanes from RoF would be great - Felixstowe F2, Hansa-Brandenburg W.12 or the Hanriot HD.2. I fully realise that these would not really be appropriate for Flying Circus 1... seaplanes are really niche and not a good place for the initial foray into RoF2. The map probably wouldn't suit them either. But otherwise, sure, throw out the Pfalz and put the W12 in! Or drop the Dolphin for an HD.2.

 

But there are also a LOT of other classic seaplane types that never made it into RoF... Donnet-Denhaut-DD.8, FBA-H, Lohner-L, Macchi M5, Sopwith Baby, Friedrichshafen-FF33, Friedrichshafen-FF49, Short-184, ... etc. etc.. Some of these were produced in large quantities. For example, there were far more DD8 and FBA-H aircraft built than there ever were Felixstowes.

 

Perhaps some of these will make it into Flying Circus 2, 3, 4, 5... ?

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by xvii-Dietrich
New comment regarding VR.

[Feathered_IV]

If the fighter heavy new releases seem like a shameless money grab, it's probably because it is. These guys have been catering to a niche within a niche for years now. If anybody deserves to cash in on a sure thing it's this team. It will bring the funding for further obscure uncool planes that sim hipsters enjoy.

 

It's like building an eco system.  You need both the predators and the prey.  Recon and bomber aircraft are the bread and butter of the fighter arm.  You need them both.

[TG-55Panthercules]

The one I'm doubtful about is the Dolphin. Sure it is late war, and I suppose it could be used as ground attack too. But it seems a little out of place. What would I choose instead? Well, I think a Nieuport of some description makes sense, probably the N.17, rather than the N.28. The current set has no French aircraft, and the N.17 has the advantage of being useable by RFC units too.

 

 

Well, given the late war focus of FC Volume 1 I think the N17 would be too early, and since the N28 in RoF was pretty universally despised (as it also seemed to be by the Americans IRL who seemed to prefer the SPAD XIII, although I'm sure there were some exceptions) I wouldn't want to open up that potential can of worms in volume 1 if I were the devs.  And the current set does already have a French plane - SPAD XIII - which was also used by the Americans, British, Belgians and Italians.  I don't think we need another French fighter for volume 1, but the Breguet would show the French some more love, as well as being a more suitable, purpose-built recon/bomber and one that was flown by pretty much everybody but the RFC (who already have 3 (and can fly 4) of the first 5 planes, even after you remove the Dolphin).

Edited November 19, 2017 by TG-55Panthercules

[PatrickAWlson]

Much as I love the Pfalz D.III, I would prefer to see each side lose one fighter for a Corps recon.  DFW or something new (LVG) for the Germans and RE8 for the British.  Takeout the Dolphin and Pfalz.

 

Regardless. I am just happy to see WWI getting some love.  I do hope that later products will have more two seaters.

[Trooper117]

I am very happy this has come about... took some time, but this is by far the best of the announcements for me.

Closely followed by the fact that at last I will be able to return to the RAF to carry on my battles with the Luftwaffe in WWII  

Edited November 19, 2017 by Trooper117

[ShamrockOneFive]

The Bristol F.2B and Halberstadt CL.II seem like good counterparts for each other being the recon/scout options with ground attack options.

 

I know next to nothing about the Breguet 14.B2 but a second French aircraft would be nice. Everyone seems willing to give up the Dolphin... I have no affinity for it either way. I don't yet own it and I haven't really seen it in action in Rise of Flight.

 

Overall I'm just excited to have the Rise of Flight experience in IL-2

[xvii-Dietrich]

Well, given the late war focus of FC Volume 1 I think the N17 would be too early, and since the N28 in RoF was pretty universally despised (as it also seemed to be by the Americans IRL who seemed to prefer the SPAD XIII, although I'm sure there were some exceptions) I wouldn't want to open up that potential can of worms in volume 1 if I were the devs.  And the current set does already have a French plane - SPAD XIII - which was also used by the Americans, British, Belgians and Italians).  I don't think we need another French fighter for volume 1, but the Breguet would show the French some more love, as well as being a more suitable, purpose-built recon/bomber and one that was flown by pretty much everybody but the RFC (who already have 3 (and can fly 4) of the first 5 planes, even after you remove the Dolphin).

 

Fair enough. You make some good points on the Nieuport line. Perhaps the N.17 if Flying Circus 2 is a bit earlier.

 

Silly me for forgetting that the SPAD is French. I am just so used to it being used by Anglo-American forces.

 

I didn't think of the Breguet 14.B2, but now that you mention it, I agree if would be a very nice choice indeed.

[EAF19_Marsh]

further obscure uncool planes that sim hipsters enjoy

 

 

There are uncool planes?

[=WH=PangolinWranglin]

Reading through this thread has made me realize that I know nothing about WWI planes. I need to remedy this. 

[Feathered_IV]

Reading through this thread has made me realize that I know nothing about WWI planes. I need to remedy this. 

 

Go now.  Download Rise of Flight.  It is Free.

[BigMotor]

Agree with Panthercules. Ready to preorder Flying Circus, best news in years!

 

This is what will finally pull the VR trigger for me.

Edited November 22, 2017 by BigMotor

[LukeFF]

I know next to nothing about the Breguet 14.B2 but a second French aircraft would be nice.

 

It was a two-seater employed in large numbers both as a bomber and photo recon plane by the French, Belgians, and the Americans.

Edited November 19, 2017 by LukeFF

[Voidhunger]

D.IIIaü engine for Fokker, Pfalz and Albatros would be nice to have finally.

I will also switch one fighter plane for the two seater.

 

Anyway I cant wait for the Flying circus. I dont know what to fly/drive once all of three new titles will be ready

My wife will kill me. 3x 70 dollars + collectors planes

[ZachariasX]

I hope the devs will consider removing the Dolphin and adding instead either the DH4 (flown by British and US)

 

Why should they do that? For both sides 4 fighters and one bomber. Standard planeset for any BoX itearation. Expect the Breguet and the N.28 for "Battle of Hat-in-the-Ring".

 

The Dolphin is one of the most popular planes. Much in contrast to what we had as N.28. Would be stupid selling something that is not liked in a first try to see wether the entire Flying Circus series is still econnomically viable. If so, they can roll out all crates we have in RoF in 3 iterations of the FC franchise. Expect release Nov. 11, 2018 for the first release.

[Archie]

It's great news, I loved RoF.  

[Livai]

Sorry, but forget the plane-set for a moment, please. I don't care about the plane-set because there are more even more important Question than the plane-set itself!

 

- is this a lazy 1:1 Port

- Do the planes receive a revision? I mean more Polygone here

- Correct FM revision according to valid historical data

- DM revision

- Receive the maps the same Quality as IL-2 BoX maps?

 

For me, if they plan a lazy 1:1 Port without improvements listed above I just don't buy it. I simple refuse to support lazy homework done!  I have RoF with everything what they had to buy. For a 2009 Game it was fine but for a 2018/2019 Remake-Game I expect more than a lazy copy-paste!

Edited November 19, 2017 by Livai

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

To me he lost looks fantastic (includes almost all aircraft opf the Iron Cross edition I got). Don't understand the uproar about 'only fighters is boring' since theres a ground attacker for each (Bristol FB II/III is a beast of a attack aircraft) and also others that can be equiped with bombs for ground support (SE.5).

 

Given all the other work like a reworked france map, campaign, interface and what not required this list is very satisfying. On the other hand I can't wait to get my Gotha in one of the next iterations of Flying Circus

Sorry, but forget the plane-set for a moment, please. I don't care about the plane-set because there are more even more important Question than the plane-set itself!

 

- is this a lazy 1:1 Port

- Do the planes receive a revision? I mean more Polygone here

- Correct FM revision according to valid historical data

- DM revision

- Receive the maps the same Quality as IL-2 BoX maps?

 

For me, if they plan a lazy 1:1 Port without improvements listed above I just don't buy it. I simple refuse to support lazy homework done!  I have RoF with everything what they had to buy. For a 2009 Game it was fine but for a 2018/2019 Remake-Game I expect more than a lazy copy-paste!

 

 

Flying Circus will finally give our loyal and patient Rise of Flight customers a new way forward into the future! Our eventual goal is to essentially re-build ROF inside of the Sturmovik universe and give WWI all the latest technology like VR, 64bit, DX11 and improved visuals. We will start by focusing on re-furbishing ten of our existing WWI airplanes and providing a partial map of France to fly and fight over.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Let's not go asking for specific engines on the fokker until we know what the other planes are packing.

 

Ideally we'll have a variety to choose from as mods.

[CCG_Pips]

Breguet XIV please !!! a really great plane that was under servie in several Air force fa after the War!!!

 

 

 

[Alexmarine]

More than the planes I would be interested in news about Careers and other single-player modes. That would really move me to pre-order it when available.

[TG-55Panthercules]

Why should they do that? For both sides 4 fighters and one bomber. Standard planeset for any BoX itearation. 

 

Why should they do that?  Because there are no bombers as such in the proposed Entente plane set - just 5 fighters that can also carry some bombs.  

 

A couple of notes about the issue and role of "popularity" of the various plane types.  Even if it turns out that the Dolphin has been a popular plane in RoF, one should remember that in RoF you only have to buy the planes you want to fly - you get to fly against all the other planes in the game even though you don't buy them.  Thus, in RoF the bomber/recon planes are available as targets - it's a bit harder to gauge how many people would buy the fighters and how popular some of the fighters might be if there were no suitable targets available.  So in Flying Circus, including a 5th fighter like the Dolphin might garner them some sales to people who like the Dolphin, but the lack of suitable bomber/recon types for targets might turn off as many or more players who want to see a more historically-balanced environment.  

 

Something to think about anyway.

[Trooper117]

Well, I'm hoping they will eventually put everything they have in RoF into FC as time goes by... lets face it they have all the criteria for those aircraft already nailed down.

Now if only that Snipe would show up!  

[Alexmarine]

The Halberstadt was not really a bomber but more a fast attacker (especially with the better engine), the Bristol complement it well I think. The only two planes pf the set that looks odd to me are the Fokker Dr.I and the Pfalz D.IIIa: I would have preferred going full late war with a Fokker D.VIII and a Pfalz D.XII but I see they wouldn't have been as popular as the ones chosen.

[Feathered_IV]

Lots of things could be improved too.  The very basic AI, which only does a diving turn to the left is one example.

[Jaws2002]

Well, given the late war focus of FC Volume 1 I think the N17 would be too early, and since the N28 in RoF was pretty universally despised (as it also seemed to be by the Americans IRL who seemed to prefer the SPAD XIII, although I'm sure there were some exceptions) I wouldn't want to open up that potential can of worms in volume 1 if I were the devs. And the current set does already have a French plane - SPAD XIII - which was also used by the Americans, British, Belgians and Italians. I don't think we need another French fighter for volume 1, but the Breguet would show the French some more love, as well as being a more suitable, purpose-built recon/bomber and one that was flown by pretty much everybody but the RFC (who already have 3 (and can fly 4) of the first 5 planes, even after you remove the Dolphin).

Honestly, the Noop 28 was despised by many because it had a bad flight model and they refused to fix it no matter how much info they got, that showed it was wrong.

I think the Noop 28 fm stil has the Spad wing profile, with the obvious problems.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Jaws2002

[jeanba]

 

However, I do have one suggestion for the Entente plane set.  I hope the devs will consider removing the Dolphin and adding instead either the DH4 (flown by British and US) or, probably better, the Breguet 14 (flown by French, Belgian and US).  That way, each side would basically have 4 fighters and 1 recon/bomber/ground attack plane, and adding the Breguet in particular would enable a larger number of interesting mission options to tide people over until we get more of the RoF content moved over in subsequent releases.

 

In any event, awesome and unexpected news - THANKS!!

I agree for the Breguet XIV, and I would add the Spad VII

[HagarTheHorrible]

It's interesting, to me at least, that they have included the Pflaz DIIIa. For reasons best known to the developers the DIIIa,in RoF, was a star turn and yet it never surplanted the DVa in reality because, unless you felt particularly attached to your wings, it didn't really improve on the performance of the DVa (limited by the same engine), one of the reasons presumably why DVa's were still front line aircraft at the end of the war rather than having been replaced by the DIIIa. If the Germans could produce an aircraft, like RoF's DIIIa with the reliability, dive ability and ease of operation of an inline engine with almost the same turn performance of one of the best Allied rotaries I can't but think the DVa would have vanished rather quicker from the scene. The Dr1 would have never got past the drawing board design stage, there would have been no need.

 

I do think it's a lovely looking aircraft but I just can't see what it would add to gameplay, that the DVa doesn't, if it's FM is anything like it's reported historical performance.

[Klaue]

If the fighter heavy new releases seem like a shameless money grab, it's probably because it is. These guys have been catering to a niche within a niche for years now. If anybody deserves to cash in on a sure thing it's this team. It will bring the funding for further obscure uncool planes that sim hipsters enjoy.

+1