Where are the bombers?

[Trooper117]

Have you never seen disappointment .

 

 

Yes I have... every time a new expansion was announced but still kept the game in the Eastern Front.

Then an announcement that they were going to the Pacific next, and that would be for Midway and Okinawa if things turned out right. That is disappointment mate!

 

What did I do about it? I kept hoping that at some stage I would eventually get to play as an RAF flyer in the BoS universe, and also make the best of it and keep playing with what I had until 'my dream' was achieved... not only that but I kept buying everything to support the team.

[56RAF_Roblex]

 

 

yeah a real fighter pilots point of view, without the whole community this game will be nothing but a FPS game . Come on if you try to get your own pow thru, try to see others. In my point of view it would be easier to come to terms if Jason said he would only support Fighter jockeys point of view since they are in bigger numbers. 

 

I flew heavies in Warbirds; led a formation from East Anglia to Berlin in the weekly special events. I flew heavies in Aces High and I flew in a B-26 squadron in IL2-46.  I came to BoX because I would rather fly strike aircraft than dogfight.    It does not alter my view that a B17/Lanc/B24 is useless when the visibility is only 9K and it does not alter the fact that bombers are very hard to model.

[[TWB]dillon_biz]

My God some of you people are truly unbelievable.

Edited November 19, 2017 by [TWB]dillon_biz-

[LukeFF]

 

 

I mean, I love bombers just as much as the rest of us, but couldn't the He-111 from the Kuban expansion maybe be used on the west front? Sure, it's a slightly older model so many would probably complain about the historical accuracy, but if you really wanted to bomb you could use it.

 

Sure, but by late '44 most German bombers in the West (save for the Ar 234s) would have been flying at night. With the air superiority the Allies had by this time, it would have been suicide to send out waves of 111s and 88s during the daytime.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

indeed, whatever you would put in the air Ju188, Ju88S, He111H(whatever number) - it will be massacred by the highspeed , heavy armed fighters of that time.

 

as i wrote , i am still for these bombardiercockpit modifications of the 38 and 262 - no additional cockpit would be needed to model. Just switch fom the pilot direct to the bombsight. i know, will never happen.

[Hoss]

     For a late war scenario Battle of Berlin would of been better, have Berlin on the far west end like we have Moscow now on the far eastern side.  Getting the Yak-3, Yak-9, Tu-2, Su-2....... maybe even the Pe-3, IL4.... Dora's, late 109's, newer Ju bombers...........  But the P-47 is my all time favorite fighter............ love the P-38 too............ lots of different bomb and rocket loadouts..............  

 

    We still have the A-20 where I'm sure we can use all the US/RAF skins that will come with it on the Kuban release.  But if I read the release correctly the map is not going to be all that big compared to the BoS, BoM, BoK maps we have now, so getting formations of B-25's, B-26's formed up and at altitude might be a chore.  Still I pre-ordered it, the La and Bf to foster further development of the game, and I'll bet I get the IL2 P47 before I get the DCS P-47.............

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

Edited November 19, 2017 by 1./JG54_Hoss

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Because there is a lot of crossover with a B-17 thread I am reposting here. Although many of the same principals apply to twin engine bombers they are not exactly the same vegetable. So you have to use reasoning skills while reading it. The last paragraph is the most pertinent;

 

It's just not going to happen (B-17) in this game engine. I hate to be that guy but the dev's have made this VERY clear. It's not even a matter of money. Jason said today there is enough money to build dozens of AC. He can build one bomber for the cost of five or six fighters in time alone.

 

The problems with large multi-engine AC are four fold - researching/modelling systems, AI drag in game, map size limitations, and enough personnel to do the work. The AI drag even prohibits the heavies as AI/targets. For all intents and purposes this game is a superb TACTICAL flight simulator. It will never be a strategic flight simulator.

Edited November 19, 2017 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[Gambit21]

Yep

[Herne]

Is it just me or does this thread seem a little salty ?

 

I've only been playing steadily since April and the VR patch, which I can't speak highly enough of BTW, but I'm in awe of what this dev team have accomplished, and their focused vision for the future. So many titles I've been following are delayed by months or even years. I was half expecting the major announcement to be, "Sorry guys, we've hit some unforeseen problems and it will be an extra few months before BoK is released." Instead we get news about not one, but three new exciting titles for the next Dev cycle, and confirmation that BoK is still on target to be released this year, what we we are going to be getting may not be what we were expecting / hoping to get but I'm sure it's going to be great, and further down the line other planes and theatres are likely to follow. Try and be thankful for the awesome work this team has already done, and is continuing to do, instead of being so salty, that they wonder why they even bother.

[BraveSirRobin]

Because there is a lot of crossover with a B-17 thread I am reposting here. Although many of the same principals apply to twin engine bombers they are not exactly the same vegetable. So you have to use reasoning skills while reading it. The last paragraph is the most pertinent;

It's just not going to happen (B-17) in this game engine. I hate to be that guy but the dev's have made this VERY clear. It's not even a matter of money. Jason said today there is enough money to build dozens of AC. He can build one bomber for the cost of five or six fighters in time alone.

The problems with large multi-engine AC are four fold - researching/modelling systems, AI drag in game, map size limitations, and enough personnel to do the work. The AI drag even prohibits the heavies as AI/targets. For all intents and purposes this game is a superb TACTICAL flight simulator. It will never be a strategic flight simulator.

Even the multi-crew aircraft we have now cause problems. All it takes is a few 88s or Pe2s and a few fighters and everyone starts lagging. It would be much, much worse with something like a B-17 or 24.

[Boaty-McBoatface]

I am well aware of the fact that dogfighting wannabe aces is dominant in this game, but sometimes things do not work out the way you think, even when things goes your way. Look at COD , numbers of players decreased considerable when Bomber pilots started to abandon.

Good grief. Complete and utter codswallop from you again Lusey.

 

You've done a great job deluding yourself here. CLOD has been dying because it was rotten in the first place and after god knows how many years now hasn't even had an update. Rot starts from the top; even after TF amateur patchwork, it is just holes and band-aids everywhere. Time goes by and people have had enough. For heaven's sake I remember when people were getting excited about the Wellington- 4 years ago! It beggars belief. Delude yourself all you wish my friend, but unfortunately in years gone by, it is now but a shiny, steaming pile of doggy doo-doo when compared to the outstanding development of BoX all this time.

 

Ironically, with all you say about separating people and dwindling clod numbers, your screaming 'fighter jocks' like a spoilt child will only help divide and cause animosity. Old man, grow up please. In your first post in this thread you sound like you were frothing at the mouth. I don't know how anyone could be so ungrateful at this new announcement, it's appalling.

Reluctantly buying this piece of pack of witch name I can think but not mention. This is a money collection pack with absolutely no interest. To me it is a nightmare of a plane pack

 

How about poop like in droppings?

 

World class troll, Lusey. Foul. You give us people who also enjoy bombers a bad name, sir.

 

Regards

Edited November 20, 2017 by boaty_McBoatface

[Pharoah]

damn this turned into a $hit fight. Anyway, look:

 

1. This game isn't really suited for large 4 engined bombers like the B17, B24, Lancaster, etc..trust me, I LOVE flying bombers

2. Development time would be way too long and you probably wouldn't get your money back from all the dev time invested.

3. The tactical air war that IL2 BoX is good at is probably more the medium bombers anyway plus fighters plus fighter/bombers

4. I would rather 1C develop the following to appease the medium bomber crowd ie. 

- B26

- Mosquito

- Beaufighter

 

Other than the B26, the Mossie and Beaufighter would be perfect for air to ground and anti shipping missions AND would give something for the fighters to protect. BoX isn't all about Team Deathmatch with fighters. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Don't forget the Me-410. It would fit quite nicely, has fighter bomber potential and gives the Axis a fast'ish two place mud mover.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Such complaining discussion will never stop. If a flyable B-25 were added, there would be calls for B-17, then B-24 and B-29. It would never end. 

 

Although the recent announcement is not ​exactly what I had in mind, I am very pleased that production of new products is ramping up. I would not want to go back to the dark days some years ago when there was nothing on the horizon. 

 

Nevertheless, this heated discussion is reassuring. A certain amount of anger indicates a healthy community. 

[Danziger]

A20G model would be nice.

[Legioneod]

Even the multi-crew aircraft we have now cause problems. All it takes is a few 88s or Pe2s and a few fighters and everyone starts lagging. It would be much, much worse with something like a B-17 or 24.

Never really had this problem in-game but I see your point. I do think its worth experimenting with later down the road though if resources are available, I still think heavies are possible.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Legioneod

[Gambit21]

A20G model would be nice.

 

Yep

I'm assuming that Jason and the devs are at the point of "no room or budget right now for one more thing...not even ONE"

Thus even though cranking out a G variant is relatively little work compared to other things (emphasis on the word relatively) I'm not

counting on seeing it any time too soon.

 

It does make sense though...it saw heavy use on the map we're getting during that time frame.

Not to mention Eastern Front...I'd rather attack convoys in the G if I had the choice - can't argue with those guns.

Also add it to the list of aircraft that can be re-purposed for the PTO later.

 

I think we'll see it eventually, just not for the release of Bodenplatte.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Gambit21

[Boaty-McBoatface]

damn this turned into a $hit fight. Anyway, look:

 

1. This game isn't really suited for large 4 engined bombers like the B17, B24, Lancaster, etc..trust me, I LOVE flying bombers

2. Development time would be way too long and you probably wouldn't get your money back from all the dev time invested.

3. The tactical air war that IL2 BoX is good at is probably more the medium bombers anyway plus fighters plus fighter/bombers

4. I would rather 1C develop the following to appease the medium bomber crowd ie.

- B26

- Mosquito

- Beaufighter

 

Other than the B26, the Mossie and Beaufighter would be perfect for air to ground and anti shipping missions AND would give something for the fighters to protect. BoX isn't all about Team Deathmatch with fighters.

Blame falls on Lusekoft for sending this thread sour unfortunately. He has shown a bitter reaction to this developer's announcement and is showing his true colours as a world class troll. It is truly beyond me how ungrateful and unappreciative, not to mention how rude an individual can be towards such an exciting announcement, from a sensational development team, in so small a niche of PC simulations. Shameful behavior from the old man.

 

Regards

Edited November 20, 2017 by boaty_McBoatface

[FTC_Etherlight]

Can we please stop the witchhunting now? People absolutely have the right to be disapppointed at certain turns in development. I would also be heavily disappointed about the coming planeset If I was a Bomber guy. For me, personally, this planeset is ideal, as I don't care at all about levelbombing. I like dogfighting and tactical ground attack, so I'm right at home in BoBP. That, however, is not true for quite a number of people. If you were also a big fan of the Pacific and also looked forward to that, then this announcement is basically a double-kick to the plums. There is no need for "gratitude", this is a business relationship of developer and customer in which gratitude is shown by buying stuff, not by buying stuff and being totally nice about if, too. It's absolutely a-okay to voice one's disappointment without getting personal. Sure, Luse didn't voice it in the most neutral of ways, but I see worse than what he wrote on every page of this thread, so calm the hell down, people.

 

I don't share Luse's opinion that BoBP will be a bad move business-wise, since the number of people who fly levelbombers only are probably exceedingly small compared to people who are also quite happy with tactical strikes and fighters and it's pretty obvious that the planeset in question is probably a big moneymaker, because it appeals to a huge crowd, but I see where he's coming from.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Maybe the possebility of a flyable Li-2/DC3 will compensate a bit for the lack of level bombers / attack aircraft in BoBP.

[Gambit21]

Can we please stop the witchhunting now?.

With respect...

 

A - not sure that word is what you think it means...maybe if someone started a thread to attack those complaining about "lack" of bombers we'd have a good old fashioned "witchhunt" on our hands. As it stands use of that word is more than a little dramatic.

 

B - as much as they have the right to voice their disappointment, others have the same right to respond, especially given the actual plane set. Honestly, given what we know, what Jason has said so many times...who really would expect level bombers in this release? ESPECIALLY given the nature of the release, the map, the workload coming for PTO and the need to get BoBP completed and out the door.

A little logic and thinking things through, and less selectively ignoring history with the devs and what is common knowledge would go a long ways here.

 

C - as far as you seeing "worse on every page of this thread"....I hardly think so.

 

Your post was fine without the needless defense of those who can speak for themselves, and frankly I think Luse was responded to in a way that should be expected given his tone.

 

All that said, no disrespect and I'm glad the release is in your wheelhouse.

[curiousGamblerr]

Foul boaty, foul

 

Fowl is a bird

[Boaty-McBoatface]

Thank you kind sir! Corrected. Typed on my phone. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by boaty_McBoatface

[Max_Damage]

As someone else has mentioned this expansion has no soul really. just a paid DLC for buisness. Its going to be DCS style fighter vs fighter and i can tell you how boring DCS multiplayer is. Sometimes it is more exciting just to 3 point land your plane and not do pvp because there are no objectives. Its going to be shallow. But its also going to attract a lot of money thrown at monitors. Not mentioning that the whole western front thing is pretty insignificant for ww2 in comparison to the Eastern front. This operation was basically a mop up.

 

However 777 clearly have no ability to do things like b17. They have mentioned that it is not worth it, too much labor.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Max_Damage

[7.GShAP/Silas]

As someone else has mentioned this expansion has no soul really. just a paid DLC for buisness. Its going to be DCS style fighter vs fighter and i can tell you how boring DCS multiplayer is. Sometimes it is more exciting just to 3 point land your plane and not do pvp because there are no objectives. Its going to be shallow. But its also going to attract a lot of money thrown at monitors. Not mentioning that the whole western front thing is pretty insignificant for ww2 in comparison to the Eastern front. This operation was basically a mop up.

 

However 777 clearly have no ability to do things like b17. They have mentioned that it is not worth it, too much labor.

 

 

I don't understand.  If you exclude the innumerable western strategic bomber formations orbiting the earth and dropping rocks on cities, the aircraft listed for BoBP are most of the aircraft that performed ground-attack duties during the operations being depicted.  With an AI-flown B-25 the more tactical-scale bomber-interception can be simulated as well.  What is the big issue here?

 

 

I am very much looking forward to spending my time in BoBP striking enemy troops, materiel and airfields in an Me-262 with 30mm cannons, R4M rockets and bombs.

 

P.S. I totally agree this was a mop up with no comparison in scale to the east.  The air war in the west was over long, long before this.  But within the context of the sim it really could be interesting trying to replicate a bit of the manic struggle that went into this type of desperate action.  That's a big part of what makes Kuban so appealing for me.

Edited November 20, 2017 by 7.GShAP/Silas

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Boatface, take a chill pill. You're not 5, no need to act like it.

 

The announcement has pleased some and displeased others (like all others before it). Nothing new here, let the happy ones rejoice and the disappointed ones mourn a little. It doesn't hurt

[Rolling_Thunder]

FFS what 'witch-hunting'? This is a load of bollocks, JG4, and you know it. Lusekoft has spewed nothing but foul, demeaning crap at the very prospect of Bodenplatte. It doesn't matter if he's a minority- what makes you think he has the right to spew such toxic hogwash in the face of such a constructive Dev update? Completely uncalled for. 

 

The old man should STFU! He can always take his bloody bombers back to CLOD or whatever crap he wishes. We have the right to enjoy this fantastic Dev update without such irrational, knee-jerk cretinous remarks.

 

Regards

Pointless post is pointless.

Lusekoft has already stated hes done. Your post is akin to throwing stones at someone who has already left the building. Talk about toxic crap.

[JG27_Arklight]

Screw you guys. I want an A-6E Intruder.

[Mac_Messer]

Yes, people seem to forget that we have that gorgeous looking Kuban map, a new campaign system, new graphics tech and features etc, three new aircraft that many have raved about, all to come and be enjoyed  next month!...

Each to their own I guess. For me Gustav G-6 is alone worth buying into Kuban. For some others, nothing less than a flyable B-25/B-17 will suffice. Guess who`s getting their favorite plane in January.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Mac_Messer

[Mac_Messer]

They are simulating a bunch of the war’s most iconic aircraft. The chances that this will “backfire” are pretty close to zero.

Since most of those PTO fans overlap with Western Front fans anyway...

[Dakpilot]

A-20 Boston IIIb was used by RAF 342 squadron (Free French) in ETO up until March 1945.

Did they carry out any ops in the area depicted on the expected map? I am not sure, but they were certainly carrying out Combat Missions in the time frame (late 44/45)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Mac_Messer]

yeah a real fighter pilots point of view, without the whole community this game will be nothing but a FPS game . Come on if you try to get your own pow thru, try to see others. In my point of view it would be easier to come to terms if Jason said he would only support Fighter jockeys point of view since they are in bigger numbers. 

But the logic fails, when a game get less interesting for one group, it tend to shift into something the other group do not like and numbers decrease all over the board. 

I am well aware of the fact that dogfighting wannabe aces is dominant in this game, but sometimes things do not work out the way you think, even when things goes your way. Look at COD , numbers of players decreased considerable when Bomber pilots started to abandon. 

There should be room for everyone, and in this pack it is not. 

Well, technically those fighter jocks you talk about didn`t get the game they wanted either. Since BoS came out I played 2x2 sp campaigns (1 LW, 1 VVS for BoS and BoM). Even today BoX is not even close to what fun I got out of IL2 1946 because it lacks comprehensive multiplayer. You can play only so many QMB AI skirmishes till you get sick of it. So since I finished my 2nd BoM campaign, I`ve been hanging here, waiting till I get what I came here for in 2014 - coops. Still hanging there.

 

You are not the only one wanting more from this game. I bet most of us are waiting for BoX to be the real successor to old IL2 series and most are optimistic about it finally getting there someday.

[Avimimus]

Just a quick note: The Eastern Front is still lacking a heavy medium bomber for Red (i.e. the Il-4)...

 

I suspect bombers are quite expensive to develop.

 

That said, the A-20 gives a flyable American medium bomber - so at least that is something?

[Mac_Messer]

 

Let me assure you, I am not trying to be patronizing. I am trying to see it from everybody's point of view. The devs are not going to please everybody with every release. No amount of complaining is going to change the fact that Bodenplatte is next. The store is open and the money is flowing. You either accept it or you continue on your fruitless path of tantrums and banging your head against a wall. I tried that with Kuban. It doesn't work. The next path is set. 

 

You know, the devs mine aswell could stick exclusively to the Eastern Front theme for another 4-5 game titles if they wanted. It is their home  theater of WWII operations. Yet they did not choose to ignore reality, meaning ETO will never surpass Western Front air battles in popularity.

[Lusekofte]

Well I have accepted there is no room for bombers and pilots like me in this pack. This is a fast food and big crowd proposal . Reading Jason probably need to have a kickstarter to be able to translate Japanese documents pretty much show there is no room for niche products. I simply have to respect that.

 

It pretty much prove that his ambitions for a high quality Pacific pack is coming. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Mac_Messer]

The problems with large multi-engine AC are four fold - researching/modelling systems, AI drag in game, map size limitations, and enough personnel to do the work. The AI drag even prohibits the heavies as AI/targets. For all intents and purposes this game is a superb TACTICAL flight simulator. It will never be a strategic flight simulator.

It`s the only right thing to do. You can recreate hundreds of WWII tactical engagements around the world but there are only few truly strategic scenarios worth covering for what is a video game.

[Mac_Messer]

Because there is a lot of crossover with a B-17 thread I am reposting here. Although many of the same principals apply to twin engine bombers they are not exactly the same vegetable. So you have to use reasoning skills while reading it. The last paragraph is the most pertinent;

 

It's just not going to happen (B-17) in this game engine. I hate to be that guy but the dev's have made this VERY clear. It's not even a matter of money. Jason said today there is enough money to build dozens of AC. He can build one bomber for the cost of five or six fighters in time alone.

Is it possible to reach the recorded Q&A with Jason Williams somwhere?

[Mac_Messer]

As someone else has mentioned this expansion has no soul really. just a paid DLC for buisness. Its going to be DCS style fighter vs fighter and i can tell you how boring DCS multiplayer is. Sometimes it is more exciting just to 3 point land your plane and not do pvp because there are no objectives. Its going to be shallow. But its also going to attract a lot of money thrown at monitors. Not mentioning that the whole western front thing is pretty insignificant for ww2 in comparison to the Eastern front. This operation was basically a mop up.

 

However 777 clearly have no ability to do things like b17. They have mentioned that it is not worth it, too much labor.

Are you even able to realise that BoBP is just a name? Given what planeset we have now, will get with BoK and BoBP, the missions could be built to take place pretty much anywhere in Western Europe, including Reichsverteidigung, operation Overlord, Battle of the Bulge etc. Now if we get classic coop mp mechanics, all the rest in making BoX a wonderfull experience will depend on the community`s creativity.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Well I have accepted there is no room for bombers and pilots like me in this pack. This is a fast food and big crowd proposal . Reading Jason probably need to have a kickstarter to be able to translate Japanese documents pretty much show there is no room for niche products. I simply have to respect that.

 

It pretty much prove that his ambitions for a high quality Pacific pack is coming. 

 

At this stage of the war, weren't many of the German bomber pilots checked out in planes like FW-190's and such?  Instead of looking at the plane set as some kind of rejection of your ground-pounding skills, you could view it as an opportunity to step out of your comfort zone and learn a new way to attack ground targets.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]