Where are the bombers?

[SAG]

So new announcement, parallel development which is pretty cool but...

 

 

where are the bombers?? only saw a b25 and its going to be AI only? so no love for bomber guys?

 

what an incredibly bitter-sweet announcement!

 

i've always wanted tanks and planes combined arms from these devs and that's becoming a reality which is awesome. but on the other hand all I see are fighters fighters fighters and NO bombers. i don't know if the devs have my blind  support anymore. look i dont want to sound to bitchey but im seriously torn.

 

Can someone help me? i don't even know if i want to buy the la5fn that i've wanted for so long; since once their new title is out, the popular servers won't be using soviet planes, only late-war american planes! or am i wrong? please tell me if I am (it's a serious request. this is my most played game ever and these devs are the only ones that had never let me down. I don't want to stop believing )

[Haza]

19//SAG

 

I always thought that the Tempest and P-47 were ground attack aircraft giving CAS, therefore, you have ground attack/fighter bomber aircraft and perhaps you might enjoy the excitement that these 2 aircraft will bring for mud-movers!.  I'm sure that the current Axis type bombers will still be able to be used, however, time will tell.  I bought BOM as you did and there are still guys who will use the i-16 and other out-dated aircraft in later games, so I do not think that it is all dome and gloom (It is a game after all).  That said, if they had gone with BOP, there would have been fewer Russian aircraft there as well so the "popular" servers would have just changed, therefore what has changed if you had bought the La5 and we moved to BOP? 

 

That said, I'm sure that there will be players populating newer servers and the maps will just rotate as WOL currently does, so that it will just be a seamless transition each game so that we are not just playing the same maps time after time!  In addition, I guess the TAW will be able to eventually incorporate BOBP into their system and perhaps the Devs will release other multi engine bombers for that time period, although I guess towards the end of the war it was the German's defending against bombers!

 

Anyway, I guess it is up to you at the end of the day, however, as you have already stated "these devs are the only ones that had never let me down", so why should you start doubting them now?  I for one hope that we will all support the Devs where we can and I'm sure every little bit helps, so make the most of the reduced price and take the gamble. 

 

On seconds thought, having checked your stats on just WOL, although you appear to have not played on WOL recently, PM me ASAP and I will gift you the La5FN, therefore hopefully you can enjoy the La5FN for an extended period before BOBP arrives without being further out of pocket!! 

 

Regards

Edited November 18, 2017 by Haza

[SAG]

19//SAG

 

I always thought that the Tempest and P-47 were ground attack aircraft giving CAS and BAI, therefore, you have ground attack/fighter bomber aircraft and perhaps you might enjoy the excitement that these 2 aircraft will bring for mud-movers!.  I'm sure that the current Axis type bombers will still be able to be used, however, time will tell.  I bought BOM as you did and there are still guys who will use the i-16 and other out-dated aircraft in later games, so I do not think that it is all dome and gloom (It is a game after all).  That said, if they had gone with BOP, there would have been fewer Russian aircraft there as well so the "popular" servers would have just changed, therefore what has changed if you had bought the La5 and we moved to BOP? 

 

That said, I'm sure that there will be players populating newer servers and the maps will just rotate as WOL currently does, so that it will just be a seamless transition each game so that we are not just playing the same maps time after time!  In addition, I guess the TAW will be able to eventually incorporate BOBP into their system and perhaps the Devs will release other multi engine bombers for that time period, although I guess towards the end of the war it was the German's defending against bombers!

 

Anyway, I guess it is up to you at the end of the day, however, as you have already stated "these devs are the only ones that had never let me down", so why should you start doubting them now?  I for one hope that we will all support the Devs where we can and I'm sure every little bit helps, so make the most of the reduced price and take the gamble. 

 

On seconds thought, having checked your stats on just WOL, although you appear to have not played on WOL recently, PM me ASAP and I will gift you the La5FN, therefore hopefully you can enjoy the La5FN for an extended period before BOBP arrives without being further out of pocket!! 

 

Regards

 

Note: numbers on my paragraphs are just there to reference your paragraphs, not to be an A$$ 

 

1. Sure BoP would also make russians less attractive according to my reasoning above, but (and this is 100% subjective) carrier ops is what got me into Flight sims back with Microsoft CFS2 so i was willing to part with my beloved LAs and ILs just to get my taste on a sweet carrier VR landing.

 

2. I know they'll rotate but when it's time for 44-45 then i won't be able to use bombers (no level bombers) and that just takes away half the fun for me.

 

3. I know is up to me and that is why i'm posting this, I blindly supported BoM even if there was only one plane there that i wanted to get my hands on. to start doubting if the devs will ever let me down now comes from the announcement itself, i see all fighters and no mention of improved VR, Improved mult-threaded Dserver (for more people on one server) and game engine, improved draw distance or improved anything, ill i see is Airquake heaven and that is fun, but just for a short while in my eyes. I know it's early to say if these things are coming or not, but they werent mentioned on the announcement and that makes me nervous. I'm praying for having availability for Jasons Q&A and for my concerns to be calmed, but for now ill have to rely on the helpfulness of this awesome community (another great reason why i love this IL2 so darn much)

 

4. True that i haven't flown WoL recently, I only fly Airquake for a little while before i get bored. i mostly fly on TAW but i have not joined the current campaign since ive been consumed by work, finals and a new Samoyed Puppy my girlfriend got me for my birthday.

 

I really really appreciate your offer for the La5-fn, that is just very kind of yo. Those types of attitudes towards players and developers is why i love this game and these forums so much; even though cash isn't really flowing all that well for me at the moment, all I really want right now is someone to help me with my cold feet. Shit I just realized how invested i've been to this game for the past few years just now.

 

If it is not much to ask, ill im asking for is a little help seeing all the positives people are seeing in the current announcement so that i can calm down. ill wait until i get the money for the game even if it means sacrificing the new founders medals 

[Haza]

19//SAG,

 

Please PM me your correct name or email address so that I can gift you this aircraft as I want to make sure that you get it!

Enjoy the La5FN when it comes out and rest assured, I'm sure you will warm to BOBP and those cold feet will be as warm as toast!.

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

EDIT

 

Level bombers?????  I'm expecting BOP to be dive dive dive (A Bomber expression here, not a submarine quote!)

Edited November 18, 2017 by Haza

[Lusekofte]

If we was to have a Flyable B 25, DO 217 K , JU 188 , Mosquito B 26 . Anything really resembling to a bomber I would not mind. To me it is a nightmare of a plane pack 

[BraveSirRobin]

If we was to have a Flyable B 25, DO 217 K , JU 188 , Mosquito B 26 . Anything really resembling to a bomber I would not mind. To me it is a nightmare of a plane pack 

 

Is this the 4th or 5th time that these developers have lost you?  I've lost count.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Lack of Bombers isn't the worst thing though. This Pack invites the worst of the worst of Fanbois. 262 Whiners, Pony Drivers and 190 Jocks. They'll need their own Section of the Forum to bitch, moan and complain about how biased the game is. 

It will be good comedy for us though to see what kinds of absolutely ridiculous BS Propaganda People are willing to believe. Who wants to bet somenw will use Red Tails to prove a point?

 

The comment Section under that Video is Gold by the Way. "Me-262 used highly volatile fuels" etc.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Hahahaha it will be very good entertainment indeed.

[L3Pl4K]

With some "luck" we get the Me262 A-2.

[Gambit21]

Some of you are quite silly.

I'll be busy BOMBING the snot out of German convoys, trains and armor with the P-47D and its 2 1000lb bombs.

No bombers....rolls eyes.

[Tyberan]

Bombers can wait, maybe another expansion or collectors. Meanwhile i'm going to have fun in said fan boi luftwhiner planes listed above. But I'm still looking forward to the jug and lightening for CAS.

[Gambit21]

Bombers can wait, maybe another expansion or collectors. Meanwhile i'm going to have fun in said fan boi luftwhiner planes listed above. But I'm still looking forward to the jug and lightening for CAS.

Yes then there's the P-38 it's considerable bomb load - not to mention rockets.

[xvii-Dietrich]

Some of you are quite silly.

I'll be busy BOMBING the snot out of German convoys, trains and armor with the P-47D and its 2 1000lb bombs.

No bombers....rolls eyes.

 

 

 

There appears to be several definitions of what constitutes a "bomber" here.

 

 

 

When fighter-pilots talk about bombers it seems they include also fighter-bombers, mud-movers, jabos, destroyers, ground-attack, schlachtflugzeuge, etc.. Yes, a P-47 and a Bf-109 are "bombers" in that they carry bombs.

 

In that sense, Gambit, you're absolutely right that the BoBo planeset has "bombers". Every single announced aircraft carries bombs.

 

They are ALL bombers.

 

 

 

However, when a bomber-pilot talks about bombers they usually mean multi-engined, multi-crewed, level bombers; with guns that don't all point fixed-forward, flying at high-altitude, and bombing through automated, telescopic sights... such as the He-111 H-6 from BoS.

 

In principle, you can also dog-fight with these aircraft. After all, they have some forward firing guns, right? But can you imagine a game where there are only He-111s, A-20s, Pe-2s, Ju-88s. Just think of the howls of protest from the fighter-pilots if the announced BoBo planeset was B-17, B-24, B-25, B-26, Lancaster, Do-217, Ar-234, He-177, Ju-390.

 

So, this is one reason why the bomber pilots are somewhat disappointed with the recent announcement.

 

 

 

The only consolation was a hint from Jason Williams when asked about if it would be possible to make the B-25 flyable. He wrote:

 

Has nothing to do with cool Has everything to do with resources. At least an AI B-25 can be used on the Eastern Front and maybe someday we can make it flyable.

 

Ref: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32270-make-b-25-flyable-please/?p=533984

 

There is still hope.

 

[Gambit21]

Dietrich - yes I know.

On the other hand you can't equate the ordinance load of a Yak to that of a Jug or P-38 nor their utility as bombers.

The Jug and P-38 are legit bombers by comparison - absolute beasts.

 

But yes I understood the gist of the post, if not the need for it.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

they should ad the Droop Snoot  for the P-38L and  -2a/U2 for the Me262  modifications :D

 

than you have the desired bombsight

[56RAF_Roblex]

Before we get any more complaints about 'not enough big level bombers'  just bear in mind that one of the hardest parts of building a new aircraft is the cockpit.  Think about the number of games where they have an AI version of the aircraft for years before they make it flyable. Why?  It looks like it should look, it flies as it should fly.  What's the problem? The reason is that modelling the interior is much harder.    A bomber might not just have a bigger cockpit but also might need a bombadiers position that has almost as many instruments and you also want the different gunners positions and each one able to look at the other nearby gunners.  The PE2 was designed as a fighter and the design means 1C got away with having a couple of fixed viewpoints in the gunners area. The 110 & JU87 & IL2 are simpler but still more work than a fighter but something like a B17 is as much work as three or four fighters all on its own.  DCS had it as a stretch goal for DCS :Normandy and still never managed to make one.   CLoD has taken several years and still not got the Wellington out yet.  Unless someting changed since I last flew it, IL2-1846 never managed a proper Lancaster,  just a bodged mockup with holes & gaps everywhere.  In fact that last point is also an issue. I am not sure of the details but it seems multiple viewpoints within the aircraft cause a lot of problems to designers in terms of 'gaps' in the model.

[xvii-Dietrich]

{...} I understood the gist of the post, if not the need for it.

 

 

I felt the need for it was two-fold.

 

1.  To illustrate that it is a flying-style, rather than just bomb-weight.

 

2.  To remind those who might be disappointed, to remember that Jason hinted at a flyable B-25.

 

Sure, the P38 bomb-load is comparable to that of the He-111. But we don't fly them the same way. I appreciate now that you realise that point, Gambit. Perhaps I just over-reacted when being told we were "quite silly". Sorry.

Edited November 18, 2017 by xvii-Dietrich

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

It will be good comedy for us though to see what kinds of absolutely ridiculous BS Propaganda People are willing to believe. Who wants to bet somenw will use Red Tails to prove a point?

 

You forgot to add the "Gold Standard" short video clip from this "classic" movie.

 

 

It's quite clear and perfectly illustrates that the P-51 was crafted from the finest alloy 1090, whereas the 262's MK 108's are about as effective as shooting peas at a brick wall.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

watch this six bomb P-38

 

 

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=335570.0

 

i "want" this modification

[6./ZG26_Loke]

 

There appears to be several definitions of what constitutes a "bomber" here.

 

 

 

When fighter-pilots talk about bombers it seems they include also fighter-bombers, mud-movers, jabos, destroyers, ground-attack, schlachtflugzeuge, etc.. Yes, a P-47 and a Bf-109 are "bombers" in that they carry bombs.

 

In that sense, Gambit, you're absolutely right that the BoBo planeset has "bombers". Every single announced aircraft carries bombs.

 

They are ALL bombers.

 

 

 

However, when a bomber-pilot talks about bombers they usually mean multi-engined, multi-crewed, level bombers; with guns that don't all point fixed-forward, flying at high-altitude, and bombing through automated, telescopic sights... such as the He-111 H-6 from BoS.

 

In principle, you can also dog-fight with these aircraft. After all, they have some forward firing guns, right? But can you imagine a game where there are only He-111s, A-20s, Pe-2s, Ju-88s. Just think of the howls of protest from the fighter-pilots if the announced BoBo planeset was B-17, B-24, B-25, B-26, Lancaster, Do-217, Ar-234, He-177, Ju-390.

 

So, this is one reason why the bomber pilots are somewhat disappointed with the recent announcement.

 

 

 

The only consolation was a hint from Jason Williams when asked about if it would be possible to make the B-25 flyable. He wrote:

 

 

 

Ref: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32270-make-b-25-flyable-please/?p=533984

 

There is still hope.

 

Well said.

[Halon]

TB-3 please?

[Mac_Messer]

My interpretation of the two announcements and Jason`s comments is that resources and time are finite. So if you want 1CGS/777 to work on additional stuff, you will have to choose PTO or bombers made specifically for BoBP.

 

Maybe things can be worked out so that some of the US bombers that served in both theaters of operations could be added a tad bit earlier than the realease of PTO, with PTO being released free of any bombers.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Mac_Messer

[Antiguo]

Hi, I am very disappointed not to include bomber planes at level ...

 

In that period of the war there was a good fan of bombers in both sides.

 

It is very disappointing that they focus on Jabo planes and fighters.

 

 It seems that to the users that we like to make our releases of bombs to 5000m or more, we are excluded from this new scenario ... it is a pity.

  regards

[LukeFF]

Guys, really, take a look at what planes were involved in Operation Bodenplatte - you know, the battle around which this title focuses - it was almost entirely a fighter vs fighter battle. Yes, there were B-25s involved, but that's about it. 

[Warpig]

Lots of trolling and whining on this topic. Are we on the War Thunder forums???

[Livai]

Here ->>
 

[ShamrockOneFive]

This battle is really focused on the tactical air war. I know not everyone immediately thinks of that in the West but its a huge conflict in and of itself. It's something that also fits the IL-2 series and its technologies really really well.

 

Involved in this battle are aircraft that are mostly fighters and fighter/bombers as well as some aircraft like the B-25, Mosquito, and A-20. This is not where the Lancaster and B-17 and the like operated or was particularly known for.

 

Given that this team tends not to leave things being AI-only for very long, I'd think that they may hope or intend to later pick up the B-25 though it would be their most complex bomber yet. That said, doing a Mitchel II flyable would also probably be useful almost immediately when they go into other theatres in the future.

Edited November 18, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[Antiguo]

 Warpig  I'm not crying ... I'm giving my opinion, and with respect ... keep that term for you and your friends

 

If you do not want to put bombers then do not put them .... but I express my opinion ... and do not insult any user.

 

 

regards

Edited November 18, 2017 by Ala13_Antiguo

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

He111 H20?!?!

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[Warpig]

 Warpig  I'm not crying ... I'm giving my opinion, and with respect ... keep that term for you and your friends

 

If you do not want to put bombers then do not put them .... but I express my opinion ... and do not insult any user.

 

 

regards

I'm referring more to the empty threats and pre-fanboy insults by other people here.

 

People can express there disappointment all they want. But the preemptive name calling of Mustang, 190, and jet pilots is a little bit childish. And for people threatening not to support the game because it doesn't have enough bombers is a bit childish as well. The lineups have never been bomber heavy. And the BoB lineup is going to bring a lot of attention and support to this game.

 

People just need to chill. Life isn't that bad. Geesh....

[Sky_Wolf]

The answer for why there are no heavy bombers in any BoX titles is simple: the maps are not big enough. 

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

This is what we need Pretty much tactical.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[Livai]

it was almost entirely a fighter vs fighter battle. Yes, there were B-25s involved, but that's about it.

 

Almost, yes. Forgetting the B-17 Bombers, even the Avro Lancaster, Havilland Mosquito, on the ground............

 

Brussels—Grimbergen Airfield codename "B.60" some B-17 Bombers destroyed by JG26 and JG54

Ursel Airfield codename "B.67" some Avro Lancaster, Havilland Mosquito and B-17 Bombers destroyed by JG1

[6./ZG26_Custard]

P-47

 

Armament

8 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (3400 rounds)

Up to 2,500 lb (1,134 kg) of bombs

10 × 5 in (127 mm) unguided rockets

 

P-38

Armament

1× Hispano 20 mm  cannon with 150 rounds 

4× M2 Browning machine guns with 500 rpg.

4× M10 three-tube 4.5 in (112 mm) rocket launchers; or:

Inner hardpoints:

2× 2,000 lb (907 kg) bombs or drop tanks; or

2× 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs or drop tanks, plus either

4× 500 lb (227 kg) bombs or

4× 250 lb (113 kg) bombs; or

6× 500 lb (227 kg) bombs; or

6× 250 lb (113 kg) bombs

Outer hardpoints:

10× 5 in (127 mm) HVARS (High Velocity Aircraft Rockets); or

2× 500 lb (227 kg) bombs; or

2× 250 lb (113 kg) bombs

 

Me 262

 

Armament

Guns: 4 × 30 mm MK 108 (The A-2a had only two cannons)

Rockets: 24 × 55 mm (2.2 in) R4M Rockets

Bombs: 2 × 250 kg (550 lb) bombs or 2 × 500 kg (1,100 lb) bombs (A-2a variant)

 

Tempest Mk.V

 

Armament

4 × 20 mm (.79 in) Mark II Hispano cannons, 200 rpg. Later models used Mark V Hispano Cannons.  

2 × 500 lb (227 kg) or 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs

8 × 3 in (76.2 mm) RP-3 rockets (Possibly post-Second World War)

Provision for 2 × 45 gal (205 l) or 2 × 90 gal (409 l) drop tanks.

 

FW190 A-8

 

Armament

Guns:

2 × 13 mm (.51 in) synchronized MG 131 MG with 475 rounds per gun 

4 × 20 mm MG 151/120 cannon with 250 rpg, synchronized in the wing roots and 140 rpg free-firing outboard in mid-wing mounts. 

Mistel (if the devs want to get ambitious!) 

 

 

109's = Jabo?

 

Hopefully somewhere down the line we may get some 4 engine beauties?   

 

And with luck a flyable B-25 and an upgraded A-20?

Edited November 18, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[Antiguo]

 Warpig ..   ok ... we relax. ..

Edited November 18, 2017 by Ala13_Antiguo

[Matt]

Guys, really, take a look at what planes were involved in Operation Bodenplatte - you know, the battle around which this title focuses - it was almost entirely a fighter vs fighter battle. Yes, there were B-25s involved, but that's about it. 

True, but then we're also most likely getting a summer map in addition to the winter map. So it's not like it's supposed to only cover that single operation. I'm also assuming that there will be a carreer mode that will last longer than one day only.

 

I can't argue with the planeset (would probably have chosen the Typhoon instead of the Tempest, but that's about it), but i do hope that bombers will be added soon after as collector planes. Flyable B-25, Mosquito or even Ar 234 would be awesome. I really hope that no 109 or 190 or Spitfire will pop up as collector planes anymore.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Matt

[Danziger]

Come on guys, they are certainly saving the B17F for it's own Memphis Belle module like the Ilya Murmonets in RoF.

 

Edit: I do hope we can get a G mod for the A20 though!

Edited November 18, 2017 by BorysVorobyov

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Damn P-47 carries a higher bombload than Pe-2 xD

Edited November 18, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[LuftManu]

Guys, this is just the beginning on the West front. Remember when we got the Ju52? Just wait. I am sure better tech and at least twin engine bombers will come.

 

This theater looks like fighter focused so this is why they haven´t included any heavy bomber but that doesen´t mean they won´t in the future. There is a lot of things to come. They didn´t even release the first aircraft and let´s be clear, we wanted a Ju52, we got one. We wanted a G6 we got one, Po2 maybe incoming... etc 

Just support them and they will give and we can already use the He 111 H16 for the germans at least.

Edited November 18, 2017 by LF_ManuV

[Gambit21]

Damn P-47 carries a higher bombload than Pe-2 xD

My point exactly