Bodenplatte opening the door for a late-war Eastern Front scenario?

[CanadaOne]

Wow, and I was told just the other day that I needed to take this game less seriously. 

 

Yes, yes you were.

 

 

You don't have to like it. That's fine. That's fair. You're entitled to have an opinion... But stop trying to [Edited]on it.

 

 

Much better. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bearcat

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Yes, yes you were.

 

 

 

Much better. 

 

[Edited].

 

REALLY........ ?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bearcat
Profanity

[CanadaOne]

[Edited].

 

Thank you.

 

And I hope you have an enjoyable Friday as well.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bearcat
Profanity

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Thank you.

 

And I hope you have an enjoyable Friday as well.

 

Again, [Edited].

 

Really!?   

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bearcat
Profanity

[LukeFF]

You know our RAF buds might challenge that. Without doing any exhaustive AOB research I cracked open my copy of Michael JF Bowyer's 2 Group RAF: A Complete History 1936-1945 to page 390 a nice map of 1 Jan 45 shows:

 

Vitry-en-Artois: 88 Sqdn with 19 Bostons, 226 Sqdn with 21 Mitchells, 342 Sqdn with 22 Bostons

Cambrai/Epinoy: 107 Sqdn with 20 Mosquitos, 305 Sqdn with 22 Mosquitos, 613 Sqdn with 22 Mosquitos, 417 ARF with 52 Mosquitos (spares/reserves)

Melsbroek: 98 Sqdn with 27 Mitchells, 180 Sqdn with 21 Mitchells, 320 Sqdn with 17 Mitchells.

 

Surely there is an argument to be made for an RAF twin engine bomber. I'll have to check to see how many P-38Ls were in theater.

 

Oh, no doubt, and I am very glad to see the Mitchell as part of the planeset. I guess I was thinking more about what was engaged / encountered on the actual day of Bodenplatte. 

[CanadaOne]

Again, [Edited].

 

 I see polite conversation is perhaps still a way's off. A day to look forward too, then.

 

Again, enjoy your Friday.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bearcat
Profanity

[54th_Glitter_]

Althought i undestand the point about no bombers worries, a set that includes P51D, P47D, Me262, Spit IX, Dora, P38, Tempest, Kurfurst,...is everything but "a load of crap".  Is an excellent set with almost all the iconics late war planes. As aviation fans we can´t deny the quality of a set of planes of this caliber, and of course, to have the chance to fly and have fun with them. The universe of flight simulators is not big enought to let pass this kind of chances. Just my opinion on this.

 

This said, I think the late war bombers issue is that in war it was almost a one side thing. And may be difficult to launch a balanced set of planes for both sides with bombers inside, is difficult to find bombers balance between Germany and Allied at this stage of war; and altought this is how war was, it might lead to always the same kind of missions in the sim.  Maybe this was a reason to launch a fighters only set, looking for more balanced kind of missions in both sides; i´m only speculating on this. But i´m sure bombers missed will be added later, and they will surprise us with something, they always have had a good response to customers wishes (This BOB is an example of that). 

 

About the topic of the thread, i think the step they take with BoB take us far away from eastern front and gravitates the sim to the west. I think next will be jump to pacific, or maybe some last west surprise.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

 I see polite conversation is perhaps still a way's off. A day to look forward too, then.

 

Again, enjoy your Friday.

 

[Edited].

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bearcat
Profanity

[LuftManu]

I am so hyped for this

 

I love ETO and this planeset is great. We can also expand the life of the MkIx to 43 scenarios and use it with G6 and so on.

[CanadaOne]

[Edited].

 

Well, truly an impasse.

 

But enjoy the rest of your day nonetheless.

 

STOP IT.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bearcat
Profanity

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Althought i undestand the point about no bombers worries, a set that includes P51D, P47D, Me262, Spit IX, Dora, P38, Tempest, Kurfurst,...is everything but "a load of crap".  Is an excellent set with almost all the iconics late war planes. As aviation fans we can´t deny the quality of a set of planes of this caliber, and of course, to have the chance to fly and have fun with them. The universe of flight simulators is not big enought to let pass this kind of chances. Just my opinion on this.

 

This said, I think the late war bombers issue is that in war it was almost a one side thing. And may be difficult to launch a balanced set of planes for both sides with bombers inside, is difficult to find bombers balance between Germany and Allied at this stage of war; and altought this is how war was, it might lead to always the same kind of missions in the sim.  Maybe this was a reason to launch a fighters only set, looking for more balanced kind of missions in both sides; i´m only speculating on this. But i´m sure bombers missed will be added later, and they will surprise us with something, they always have had a good response to customers wishes (This BOB is an example of that). 

 

About the topic of the thread, i think the step they take with BoB take us far away from eastern front and gravitates the sim to the west. I think next will be jump to pacific, or maybe some last west surprise.

 

I'd trade the AR 234 for the Me 262 in a heartbeat. It allows the DEV's to build jet tech for Hans' baby, Korea, without skewing the balance nearly as much as the 262 does. Plus it would satiate some of the mud movers a bit. Every time the 262 showed up in a '46 server it became almost pointless to truck around in a piston engine AC.

[busdriver]

Oh, no doubt, and I am very glad to see the Mitchell as part of the planeset. I guess I was thinking more about what was engaged / encountered on the actual day of Bodenplatte. 

 

Oh yeah, I understand you were taking a snapshot of that singular event. I hope they change the name to Battle of the Ardennes to be more inclusive of twin engine bombers. 

[Bearcat]

I have edited this thread and sent out a few messages.

 

Grow up and knock it off. 

[CUJO_1970]

You know our RAF buds might challenge that. Without doing any exhaustive AOB research I cracked open my copy of Michael JF Bowyer's 2 Group RAF: A Complete History 1936-1945 to page 390 a nice map of 1 Jan 45 shows:

 

Vitry-en-Artois: 88 Sqdn with 19 Bostons, 226 Sqdn with 21 Mitchells, 342 Sqdn with 22 Bostons

Cambrai/Epinoy: 107 Sqdn with 20 Mosquitos, 305 Sqdn with 22 Mosquitos, 613 Sqdn with 22 Mosquitos, 417 ARF with 52 Mosquitos (spares/reserves)

Melsbroek: 98 Sqdn with 27 Mitchells, 180 Sqdn with 21 Mitchells, 320 Sqdn with 17 Mitchells.

 

Surely there is an argument to be made for an RAF twin engine bomber. I'll have to check to see how many P-38Ls were in theater.

 

P-38 was not operated by the RAF, after the very early models were evaluated.

 

P-38L did not exist at Bodenplatte, being sent to serve in 9th AF instead (Italy, MTO)

[CanadaOne]

I have edited this thread and sent out a few messages.

 

Grow up and knock it off. 

 

 

I remember you from the original IL2 forums back in the day. We didn't speak often, but we always got along. I had a different name there.

 

Anyway. Nice to see you here.

[Lombra]

I have edited this thread and sent out a few messages.

 

Grow up and knock it off. 

 

Rather confusing with all these messages which had all their content edited out. Maybe just delete them?

[busdriver]

P-38 was not operated by the RAF, after the very early models were evaluated.

 

P-38L did not exist at Bodenplatte, being sent to serve in 9th AF instead (Italy, MTO)

 

Sorry for the miscommunication, I didn't mean to imply the P-38 was operated by the RAF. I have Jerry Scutts [Crowood Aviation Series] book on the P-38 and I wasn't sure what version the 9th AF was flying. I didn't feel like culling the unit histories of the 3 fighter groups (367th, 370th, and 474th) operating them on 1 Jan 45. Reckon I will now.

 

Edit: I can only find J models being flown by 9th AF P-38 squadrons on 1 Jan 45. For the record, the four 8th AF P-38 groups had converted out of Lightnings by the end of Oct 1944. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by busdriver

[Nightrise]

the Germans have a decent selection of bombers already Ju88   He111 H16 and the allies will have the kuban A20 and hopefully the b25

[CUJO_1970]

Sorry for the miscommunication, I didn't mean to imply the P-38 was operated by the RAF. I have Jerry Scutts [Crowood Aviation Series] book on the P-38 and I wasn't sure what version the 9th AF was flying. I didn't feel like culling the unit histories of the 3 fighter groups (367th, 370th, and 474th) operating them on 1 Jan 45. Reckon I will now.

 

Edit: I can only find J models being flown by 9th AF P-38 squadrons on 1 Jan 45. For the record, the four 8th AF P-38 groups had converted out of Lightnings by the end of Oct 1944. 

 

 

No problem at all busdriver - Yes, P-38 was phased out of ETO by this time and moved on to lower altitudes and warmer climates.

 

A book that you would love is Francis Dean's Americas Hundred Thousand. I strongly recommend it.

[Max_Damage]

*closing it

 

They want to milk rich westerners' money. Customer is always right rememeber?

Edited November 18, 2017 by Max_Damage

[Mac_Messer]

What is this all fighter/no bomber krap? Bodenplatte was an operation made of series of tactical strikes. Given the state Luftwaffe was in January 1945 it is obvious no strategic LW bombing takes place at that time - but hey, we already have much of the LW equipment if we want to phantasise.

 

Same with the other side. Most of the Allied planeset at Western Front was actually used for tactical strikes mud moving duties, be it P47 or even P51 sometimes. P 38L is a sheer mudmoving joy for Yanks I am 100% sure cuz it is direct remake of old IL2 days when people recreated Italy without having it.

 

So outside of the strict OB set of operations, Western Front consisted of the Allies doing strategic bombing, tactical bombing and fighter sweeps which had almost only LW fighter opposition with little to no classic mudmoving operations.

 

I`m soooooo sorry that we cannot get flyable Mitchels, Lancasters, Wellingtons, Liberators and Flying Fortresses in one aircradt pack, cuz only then maybe bomber jocks would be somewhat satisfied. Meanwhile they will have P47, P51, P38 and Tempest to do the tactical mudmoving and while giving them ability not only to flee the stage quickly but to even engage the LW fighters with numerical superiority. That makes it largely similar to what goes on in ETO servers which is Yaks, LaGG and Migs performing tactical strikes to German armour and supply convoys - hardly only fighter stuff.

 

The only thing that would make me agree with unsatisfied bomber jocks would be 1CGS giving us all these aircraft with very limited loadouts. Without several types of bombs, rockets, heavy high caliber guns with different ammobelts it would surely be stricly fighter DM garbage which IMO only a minority of people want.

 

The character of  typical online flying is the reason why I almost never flew Me262. With symetric side numbers I was pretty much untouchable as a threat to piston engined aircraft - so if I ever flew the Schwalbe it would be in a large numerical inferiority or solely for busting large formations of heavy bombers,

Edited November 18, 2017 by Mac_Messer

[LukeFF]

 

 

No problem at all busdriver - Yes, P-38 was phased out of ETO by this time and moved on to lower altitudes and warmer climates.

 

Might want to re-check that. There were at least 3 fighter squadrons flying the P-38 at this time in the ETO, all from Florennes (A-78): the 428th, 429th, and 430th Fighter Squadrons. 

[HBPencil]

P-38L did not exist at Bodenplatte, being sent to serve in 9th AF instead (Italy, MTO)

 

 

 P-38 was phased out of ETO by this time and moved on to lower altitudes and warmer climates.

Maybe I've got my parties mixed up but wasn't there two 9th Air Forces? The earlier formation being in the MTO but was folded into the 12th AF mid '43 and a new 9th AF formed in the UK later that year and moving to the Continent after D-Day? Below is a vid of 9th AF P-38s over Germany in 1945, I checked the serial number of one in the vid (44-25548) which was an L.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M

 

Edit: Apologies to the OP for going off topic.

Edited November 18, 2017 by HBPencil

[CUJO_1970]

Might want to re-check that. There were at least 3 fighter squadrons flying the P-38 at this time in the ETO, all from Florennes (A-78): the 428th, 429th, and 430th Fighter Squadrons. 

 

My reply was to busdriver where he stated "the four 8th AF P-38 groups had converted out of Lightnings by the end of Oct 1944" - 8TH AF did phase all P-38 out of ETO and flew it's last P-38 mission in September 1944.

 

Those 3 squadrons were part of 9TH AF.

[CUJO_1970]

Maybe I've got my parties mixed up but wasn't there two 9th Air Forces? The earlier formation being in the MTO but was folded into the 12th AF mid '43 and a new 9th AF formed in the UK later that year and moving to the Continent after D-Day? Below is a vid of 9th AF P-38s over Germany in 1945, I checked the serial number of one in the vid (44-25548) which was an L.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M

 

Edit: Apologies to the OP for going off topic.

 

9th AF transferred HQ from North Africa to England in 1943, I don't think it was technically considered two different air forces, although 9th AF in England became a much bigger and diverse AF...and yes, AFAIK P-38L were flying in 9th AF with mixed formations of P-38J.

[busdriver]

9th AF transferred HQ from North Africa to England in 1943, I don't think it was technically considered two different air forces, although 9th AF in England became a much bigger and diverse AF...and yes, AFAIK P-38L were flying in 9th AF with mixed formations of P-38J.

I think what HBPencil is referencing is your statement saying the P-38L being sent to 9th AF in Italy. The 9th AF was not in Italy at that time. Perhaps you meant 15th AF in Italy? Because as you say, it was only 9th AF HQ that transferred in1943, the airplanes and squadrons were absorbed by 12th and 15th AF.

 

As of yet, I can’t find any pictures identifying L models in any of the 3 FGs flying Lightnings in th ETO at the time of Bodenplatte. I’ll keep looking.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Won't the A 20 we are getting with Kuban be available for use in this new title?

 

Sure it will be an older model with less defensive armament, but it still will have it's speed and bomb load.

 

I would consider that quite the challenge.

[Archie]

So looking forward to the P-38, it will be a beast!

[CUJO_1970]

I think what HBPencil is referencing is your statement saying the P-38L being sent to 9th AF in Italy. The 9th AF was not in Italy at that time. Perhaps you meant 15th AF in Italy? Because as you say, it was only 9th AF HQ that transferred in1943, the airplanes and squadrons were absorbed by 12th and 15th AF.

 

As of yet, I can’t find any pictures identifying L models in any of the 3 FGs flying Lightnings in th ETO at the time of Bodenplatte. I’ll keep looking.

 

 

Yes, got them confused with 15th AF in Italy.

 

Only P-38L i can find in 8th AF were 3 aircraft, all of them in England. 1 at Bovington for operational evaluation and 2 near Wattisham at a depot, but technically those were F-5F and F-5G conversions to photo-recon.

 

Vast majority of P-38L went to the Pacific. In ETO, P-38J would have been a more historical representative by far, but we are getting many of the late-war hot-rods so that seems to be more of the focus of Bodenplatte.

[Bearcat]

I remember you from the original IL2 forums back in the day. We didn't speak often, but we always got along. I had a different name there.

 

Anyway. Nice to see you here.

 

 

Rather confusing with all these messages which had all their content edited out. Maybe just delete them?

[Hoss]

There's still the 110G2 as well as Ju88 for the Germans. Allies will have a lack of something heavier, at least until B25 is flyable, but can hardly complain with the ordnance that can be hauled by late P38/47.

Seems like everyone keeps forgetting about the A-20 that's coming long before Bodenplate arrives..................

 

I'm looking forward to that more than anything.............. and fighter bombers (Jug and Lightning) are going to be fun to run high speed low level missions against German armor and transports.... if we only had troops.......

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

[Livai]

Bodenplatte opening the door to........this here

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrSPfGMdufc&feature=youtu.be&t=44