Samsung Odyssey

[ICDP]

Just a feeback of problem I had with HDK2 OSVR and IL2 Bos.

HDK2 was working fine with DCS but not with IL2. The horizontal res. was 2 times more than it should be in game display and in SteamVR information. So I opened a ticket for this problem on IL2 Bos site. The devs answered me that it was a problem on OSVR/HDK2 side.

At first this answer pissed me off, because it was working on DCS, but they were right. There was a problem in OSVR/steamVR component. Hopefully, at is was opensource, I managed to fix it and so to prove the problem (because OSVR/SteamVR devs. sait that it was on IL2 Bos side...).

So, did anyone open a ticket for this odyssey FOV problem, either for IL2Bos or for SteamVR  ?

 

How di you fix it?  Is there a SteamVR file we need to edit?

[MacLeod]

Just look over on their forums, there is a large Samsung Odyssey thread in the VR section.

 

Seems to be getting mixed results...

Just read the 13 pages of it and didn’t see nobody complaining about this. I can assume that there is no such problem then?

Would be nice still if someone that play il2 could confirm that this problem is not present in dcs so it would be probably a il2 problem.

Can anybody confirm this?

[C6_lefuneste]

How di you fix it?  Is there a SteamVR file we need to edit?

 

I modified the OSVR side, because it is opensource and it was faulty. I modified the source and re-compiled them.

I do not know if SteamVR is opensource...

[chiliwili69]

IL-2 devs used OpenVR library to support both, Rift and Vive, with SteamVR.

 

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr

 

it is a "specification open" , not open source code. But allows everyone to implement their VR game to any device supporting OpenVR.

[dburne]

I so wish someday 1CGS could see the way clear to offer native Oculus support as well.

[WIS-Redcoat]

IL-2 devs used OpenVR library to support both, Rift and Vive, with SteamVR.

 

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/openvr

 

it is a "specification open" , not open source code. But allows everyone to implement their VR game to any device supporting OAre you sa

Are you saying they can fix this easily?  I need to either throw my Samsung in the trash or wait patiently. 

[chiliwili69]

 

 

Are you saying they can fix this easily?  I need to either throw my Samsung in the trash or wait patiently

 

I believe this is a particular issue between IL-2 and Windows MR devices. The fix is probably a small thing, but it requires the devs to own a Windows MR device and I don´t know if they have access to them. For sure they are aware of that but not sure if they are going to fix it for the next version.

 

The more people report this problem the more priority they will put. They have tons of thing on the table now. But correct this bug should be at the top. 

[WIS-Redcoat]

I believe this is a particular issue between IL-2 and Windows MR devices. The fix is probably a small thing, but it requires the devs to own a Windows MR device and I don´t know if they have access to them. For sure they are aware of that but not sure if they are going to fix it for the next version.

 

The more people report this problem the more priority they will put. They have tons of thing on the table now. But correct this bug should be at the top. 

 

Well the Samsung isn't sold in Europe, so they cant even buy it directly.  I offered to give them mine to use; but I doubt they want to be beholden to customer charity.  I don't see Jason buying them one and mailing it to them anytime soon, so I would imagine this will be a little ways off.

[chiliwili69]

 

 

but I doubt they want to be beholden to customer charity.  I don't see Jason buying them one and mailing it to them anytime soon, so I would imagine this will be a little ways off.

 

This is not charity, is just a way to allow them to study the bug and potentially repair. It is not only your interest but many potential buyer of the Odyssey who are tracking this.

Have you try to write a PM to Jason. They could take care of the shipment costs and deliver back to you when the bug is fixed.

[-=VPK=-Ed-]

Have you tried 3DMigoto mod for VR? It can change IPD in game.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30556-3dmigoto-mod-vr/

[C6_lefuneste]

Have you tried 3DMigoto mod for VR? It can change IPD in game.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/30556-3dmigoto-mod-vr/

it won't work because the mod only shift left and right images. That is not IPD change, because that mean changing POV. So the mod is only interesting for slight changes, for which the brain does not see too much the lack of POV change.

[coconut]

Have Samsung owners contacted Samsung? Maybe they'd like to get their headset working with a flight simulation, the higher resolution on their HMD makes it the headset of choice. I'd suggest people interested in buying one could do the same. IIRC HTC sent a vive headset to the devs when they started their effort to (re-)add VR support. It's a no-brainer for a headset maker: invest the price of one unit, get it back a 100 times.

[sampan2000]

Just read the 13 pages of it and didn’t see nobody complaining about this. I can assume that there is no such problem then?

Would be nice still if someone that play il2 could confirm that this problem is not present in dcs so it would be probably a il2 problem.

Can anybody confirm this?

 

​I have tested both of HP and Samsung HMD, I can confirm that this problem is only present in il2 not in dcs.I think it's a il2 problem.

​

[MacLeod]

​I have tested both of HP and Samsung HMD, I can confirm that this problem is only present in il2 not in dcs.I think it's a il2 problem.

​

Thanks for the answer!

[TG-55Panthercules]

​I have tested both of HP and Samsung HMD, I can confirm that this problem is only present in il2 not in dcs.I think it's a il2 problem.

​

 

Does DCS use SteamVR for its VR implementation?

[rogueblade]

So is DCS significantly better resolution wise using Odyssey over Rift? since DCS doesn't have the IPD issues reported throughout this thread

[dburne]

Does DCS use SteamVR for its VR implementation?

 

Yes, for non Oculus headsets.

[ICDP]

I have calculated that the in game IPD on Windows Mixed Reality HMDs is around 12-13cm.  No matter what setting we use in startup.cfg it cannot be overridden.  IL2 is so far the only VR game I have seen this issue with.

 

If it was a HMD or SteamVR issue then all VR games would have this issue.

 

See the attached screenshot I sent in response to the support team asking for more info.

Edited December 27, 2017 by ICDP

[ClarkFable]

I really wish their was a solution for this. I was hoping the Odyssey would be a big improvement over the Rift for this game.  Although I'm guessing it might push the hardware which is already strained to the limit. 

[ICDP]

I'm using a Lenovo MR HMD and it is a much clearer image than my old CV1.  The slight IPD problem in BoX isn't a major deal breaker for me but I would like it fixed.

 

I had a debate recently with a guy at work who owns a CV1.  He was adamant the increase in resolution from 1080x1200 to 1440x1440 per eye is negligible and not going to make a noticeable improvement.  I reminded him how gushing he was comparing image quality with his new CV1 in comparison to his old DK2.  He went very quiet when I pointed out the resolution improvement from DK2 to CV1 was actauly very small at 25% compared to 60% increase from CV1 to WMR HMD.

 

These numbers are for pixels per screen only, which is a factor for SDE.  Obviosuly PPD (pixels per degree) is a factor but not the only one because SDE is a major contributor to clarity.

 

DK2 960x1080

1,036,800 pixels per eye

CV1 1080x1200

1,296,000 pixels per eye = increase 25% over DK2

Lenovo 1440x1440

2,073,600 pixels per eye = increase 60% over CV1

 

Odyssey 1440x1600

2,304,000 pixels per eye = 77% increase over CV1

 

Overall the higher pixel density, reduced SDE gives significantly better clarity.  I didn't need maths or PPD comparisons to tell right away that my Lenovo had an increase in clarity over my CV1.

Edited December 27, 2017 by ICDP

[ClarkFable]

For me, the resolution increase is huge and noticeable in the other apps I have for comparison. Also important is the noticeable increase in contrast, which I think will be really useful for spotting/iding.   

[WIS-Redcoat]

I really wish their was a solution for this. I was hoping the Odyssey would be a big improvement over the Rift for this game.  Although I'm guessing it might push the hardware which is already strained to the limit. 

I used my Odyssey and hit ran just fine on my PC.

For me, the resolution increase is huge and noticeable in the other apps I have for comparison. Also important is the noticeable increase in contrast, which I think will be really useful for spotting/iding.   

It is a huge difference.  Hopefully someone in Russia will give us a Christmas present.

[ClarkFable]

I used my Odyssey and hit ran just fine on my PC.

 

 

You'd think with 70% more pixels that would be a huge performance hit.

 

Edit: Having now tested it for myself on Odyssey, it appears as though it's a resolution scaling problem. i.e., I think it's projecting the full Odyssey resolution as if it were the Oculus. So if you could just somehow zoom the default perspective so that the Odyssey image was effectively cropped at the normal Oculus perspective you would at least have the right scale.  The issue then becomes making sure that that cropped perspective is then rendering at the full Odyssey resolution.

 

It's like using the image of a full-frame camera instead of a crop.  

 

https://captainkimo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Canon-5D-VS-Canon-20D-Full-Frame-Versus-Cropped-Sensor.jpg

 

 

 

 

Does that make any sense?

Edited December 28, 2017 by ClarkFable

[ICDP]

You'd think with 70% more pixels that would be a huge performance hit. 

 

Performance will not be impacted as much as you suspect because we don't have to use as much supersampling due to the extra resolution.

[ICDP]

You'd think with 70% more pixels that would be a huge performance hit.

 

Edit: Having now tested it for myself on Odyssey, it appears as though it's a resolution scaling problem. i.e., I think it's projecting the full Odyssey resolution as if it were the Oculus. So if you could just somehow zoom the default perspective so that the Odyssey image was effectively cropped at the normal Oculus perspective you would at least have the right scale.  The issue then becomes making sure that that cropped perspective is then rendering at the full Odyssey resolution.

 

It's like using the image of a full-frame camera instead of a crop.  

 

https://captainkimo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Canon-5D-VS-Canon-20D-Full-Frame-Versus-Cropped-Sensor.jpg

 

 

 

 

Does that make any sense?

 

I agree that the scale on WMR devices seems off compared to Rift but I feel it is the IPD, because you can see the individual eye positions are set wider on the Samsung.  It is the same in the image I posted above from the Lenovo.

 

If it was an issue with warping as you suggest, then closing one or other eye would not "fix" the double vission on close up canopy items.

 

For me closing on or other eye causes things to appear "larger".

[ClarkFable]

I agree that the scale on WMR devices seems off compared to Rift but I feel it is the IPD, because you can see the individual eye positions are set wider on the Samsung.  It is the same in the image I posted above from the Lenovo.

 

If it was an issue with warping as you suggest, then closing one or other eye would not "fix" the double vission on close up canopy items.

 

For me closing on or other eye causes things to appear "larger".

 

 

Weird. I didn't experience the double vision problem. I will check again. Isn't it possible that the "warping" issue that I mentioned above effects the IPD because each eye has a frame that's 70% bigger than it ought to be (with oculus)?

[71st_AH_Hooves]

We can only hope that the VR dev on the team will enable that IPD setting, with all the headsets coming out, its very unrealistic to lock everything down until they have a headset to play with.  This game still has an edge on other VR experiences, it would be a shame to lose that edge to other products because they don't want to open the controls to tweak the experience.

[ClarkFable]

Just to note:  config.sys isn't letting you mess with the settings. 

 

With Oculus I have: 

 

or_height = 1600
or_width = 1344

 

When I start with my Odyssey the settings change to the approximate resolution of my Odyssey (2880 X 1600). The scaling parameters won't hold changes either.   It would be nice if there were a way to just make it think it was running Oculus still, at least then I would get the benefits of the increased contrast. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by ClarkFable

[WIS-Redcoat]

Just to note:  config.sys isn't letting you mess with the settings. 

 

With Oculus I have: 

 

or_height = 1600

or_width = 1344

 

When I start with my Odyssey the settings change to the approximate resolution of my Odyssey (2880 X 1600). The scaling parameters won't hold changes either.   It would be nice if there were a way to just make it think it was running Oculus still, at least then I would get the benefits of the increased contrast. 

Someone suggested this is probably "easy" to fix, but lord knows I don't actually know anything about that.  Maybe after Kuban they will relook at this.

[ICDP]

BOS is the ONLY game I have tested that has this issue.  It seems to me that BOS is taking what Steam VR reports as IPD and doubling it.  The fact no other game/sim has this problem indicates the devs need to look at it rather than MS or Steam.

 

I logged a ticket and gave a lot of info on the problem but support has stopped responding to my mails.  I know they are busy so patience is key.

[dburne]

As more devices get released with differing resolutions and FOV, it is almost going to require developers to include a manual IPD adjustment in their software to accommodate this. It was not that long ago that the only real players were Oculus and HTC, and both ran the same specs, so it was not really an issue.

[ClarkFable]

I can't wait for the fix. The more I use the Odyssey in other games the more I think it  will be the perfect headset for IL2.  

[rogueblade]

How is the Odyssey performing in DCS, does it have the same IPD issue?

[C6_lefuneste]

BOS is It seems to me that BOS is taking what Steam VR reports as IPD and doubling it.  The fact no other game/sim has this problem indicates the devs need to look at it rather than MS or Steam.

You should be sure that this is Il2Bos that double the IPD and not the samsung steamvr component. I was in the same mood with my HDK2 working with DCS and not with il2, but the problem was finally on HDK2 / osvr component.

The resolution sent to DCS was wrong but DCS handle it. So the position of the BoS devs was that they are following the steamVR specs and do not have to change a bit of the game. And they were right..,

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

They were not right, else there would be no ipd issues. They are responsible for how the product works or how it doesn't in the end, and noone else.

[WIS-Redcoat]

I can't wait for the fix. The more I use the Odyssey in other games the more I think it  will be the perfect headset for IL2.

 

The Odyssey is great. Perfect for this game

[chiliwili69]

Anyone with a WMR device please participate in the poll, it will push IL-2 devs to know people affected:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27278-about-vr-and-vr-devices-used/

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

I don't have one, and will vote anyway. I want to get one once they have fixed the implementation.

[MAJ_Balapan]

...\Steam\steamapps\common\SteamVR\resources\settings\default.vrsettings

This file has an IPD offset setting. It is set to 0.00 by default, I tried to change it to 0.1 and got picture in my Oculus rift with tiny planes, just like you described yours in Odyssey. So, if you guys try to set it like -0.035 it might help your experience in Odyssey with IL2. It will probably screw other games, so will have to change this setting every time switching games I guess.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Balapan

[coconut]

Great find Balapan!

 

By the way, the ipd setting was wrong for me. I have my IPD set to 0.0639 in my rift, the value in the file was 0.063. I tried increasing by IPD value to something much bigger in the rift, and the value in the config file remained at 0.063. Apparently it's a fixed value. Rift users should update that value manually.

 

I tried setting a negative offset, which made everything look big. It also moved the UI further back, which for me made it a lot more comfortable. The first time a ran the game in VR, the first thing I noticed is that I had to cross my eyes to look at the UI. I don't know where the devs put it, but considering the lenses focus at 2m, that's probably where it should be.