What king of damage can all those different bombs do?

[VeryOldMan]

Honestly I have been through a multiple page thread just a few months back on this exact topic, and I just don’t feel like going through it all one more time.

 

I just want to point out, that you are grossly over-estimating the fatal range of blast incident overpressure and underestimating the protection offered by being inside a closed off (not tightly sealed) steel box.

 

The distance at which the overpressure created by a 1000kg TNT equivalent explosion causes any lung damage at all to a person standing upright without any protection what-so-ever is around 100feet (that’s 28 meters) and for it to actually be fatal, you’ll have to be even closer. For shrapnel reasons it is very much not recommended to ever stand 100 feet away from a 2000lbs bomb going off, but it won’t be the overpressure that kills you.

 

A tank actually offers pretty good proction against this overpressure. No it is not hermetically sealed, but it doesn’t have to be, because the blast incident overpressure lasts only a small fraction of a second and not long enough for the pressure inside the tank to ever reach the level of the air outside. If you had to be in a tightly sealed box to be protected from overpressure, then you could knock out any bunker or pillbox with a single heavy artillery shell, because they are far, far less sealed off from their surroundings than the crew compartment of a tank.

 

That’s all I’m gonna say on the matter for now.

I am not the one estimating.. the link I posted is ARMY CONDUCTED experiment to verify Soviet doctrine data (that were confirmed). 

 

You want to doubt me.. ok.. but if you want to doubt Soviet Army AND US ARMY expertise during the 80's.. be my guest, but I think  they probably   knew far more about tanks than the whole internet combined.

[Finkeren]

Here read this: http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA329188

And this thread: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27895-tank-damage/page-1

And this: https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26512-quick-look-bomb-effectiveness-vs-armor/?fromsearch=1

Edited December 6, 2017 by Finkeren

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

126lb warhead on truck

500lb bomb on truck.

126lb warhead on APC

2000lb warhead vs Connex

Dropping a guided bomb directly on the roof is not really relevant is it?

Even Stukas have a difficult time dropping a bomb that will crash through the commanders hatch like modern GBUs and JDAMs and these videos don't answer effectiveness at 1m, 2m, 3m, 5m, 10m, 20m etc.

[Eicio]

And trucks may not be the most representative for tanks.

 

However we may should stick to the way bombs work in the current state of the game, not the way they should because I think there will be no consensus on it.

 

The fact is that humans tend to use what is useful even though they don't really know how it is.

[Gambit21]

I don't care about threads of internet conjecture by non-WWII vets. I care what the men who were there say.

 

From a pure logic standpoint I agree with Fink on the concussion question - however I have no expertise in that area.

 

Plenty of examples of 9th Air Force pilots watching their buddy's bombs hit at low altitudes and observing their effects on armor however. No reason to refute them - certainly no firsthand experience around to refute them.

 

Same with .50 cals hitting tank engine compartments from underneath. I have to reverse my position on that. (a position based on nothing really except what I thought I knew about tanks)

I just re-read some accounts of this from Jug pilots. Tanks stopping and smoking, and not resuming movement. NOT assumptions based on a single strafing pass, debris kicked up, and 'emotion' as it were. We'll get into that later I'm sure.

[Finkeren]

Plenty of examples of 9th Air Force pilots watching their buddy's bombs hit at low altitudes and observing their effects on armor however. No reason to refute them - certainly no firsthand experience around to refute them.

We don’t need to refute anything, and we certainly don’t need to cast WW2 vets as liars. However, no matter how accurate those eye witnesses recall their experiences, we cannot take the details of their accounts as gospel. A P-47 pilot (or even a ground observer) would have zero chance of determining if a 500lbs bomb that destroyed a tank detonated 3 meters or 6 meters from the tank, yet according to the study I shared above, those 3m can make all the difference in the world. Especially when it comes to blast incident overpressure the difference in distance from the blast that causes 100% fatalities and 0% fatalities is extremely small, for a 1000kg TNT equivalent the difference between a distance from the detonation that will absolutely kill you and the distance that absolutely won’t kill you is less than 10 feet. No way a ground observer watching a bomb hit can determine the distance that exactly. We have to trust scientific research here, even if it flies in the face of our common sense.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Finkeren

[Gambit21]

No argument from me Fink.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Then again i heard stories how M1A1 never been lost to enemy just like the F-15 BS (its called propaganda)

[Gambit21]

Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China...but what F-15 was lost in air to air combat again?

[VeryOldMan]

I am not talking about internet conjecture. I am talking about REAL experiments made by Both soviet Union and USA. There are pictures there of how a tank  handles a 152mm  near miss ( 2meter distance). The tank si completely out of action.  A 500 kg bobm has several times more power than a 152mm shell.  No waya  tank  would handle that  less badly than a 152mm shell.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

more than a handful with pilot listed is MIA or simply just wiped from records.
its hard when the country promoting the plane is the World Leaders in propaganda world wide almost.

[Gambit21]

more than a handful with pilot listed is MIA or simply just wiped from records.

its hard when the country promoting the plane is the World Leaders in propaganda world wide almost.

You're not wrong on the last bit - but source on F-15's?

[Hirachi]

 

Good enough to sink a battleship

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

 

Good enough to sink a battleship

Would be garbage against ground targets unless striking them directly on top