Pe 2 stronk

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

 

Yeah I know it´s the aim and hitting the wrong spots and just generally bad flying on the axis side... :D

[=RvE=Windmills]

Straight six attacks are just bad with HE ammo. Seems to me he just got very lucky that no fires were started and no controls cut, with not enough focussed fire into any particular part that would cause the wing to fail.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

 

 

Straight six attacks are just bad with HE ammo. Seems to me he just got very lucky that no fires were started and no controls cut, with not enough focussed fire into any particular part that would cause the wing to fail.

 

Like I said, of course it´s bad luck and lack of ability on the axis side. As it has always been with everything :D

 

Oh yeah all the gunners are still alive too!

[56RAF_Roblex]

I am surprised we have not had a post about 'invulnerable PE2s'  :-)    OTOH I have done the same amount of damage to JU88s,  multiple black & white smoke trails,  parts of the tail missing etc., and had to break off with no ammo while they flew home and landed.   I always use AP now when there is an option as it kills engines and pilots much quicker.

[ITAF_Cymao]

I dont think now someone will tell us that the same thing happened with the H111...

The Pe2 was hit a hundred times but managed to shot down 2 fighters with the gunners!!!

After all, it was more important to touch the 109'FM....

C'est la vie!

 

S!

[ITAF_Rani]

My wife watched the video..ask me to buy the next kitchen made of the same Pe material...

[Vade]

Like I said, of course it´s bad luck and lack of ability on the axis side. As it has always been with everything :D

 

Oh yeah all the gunners are still alive too!

Lack of skill, aim and tactics in general. And netcode, don't forget the netcode! Duh. 

[JG27*Kornezov]

Actually my washing machine has a leak, I would need the same material too.

[BraveSirRobin]

Actually my washing machine has a leak, I would need the same material too.

That aircraft appears to be leaking a lot. Perhaps your washing machine is already constructed of old Pe2 parts.

[DerNeueMensch]

That has got to be a new record for shells eaten by a Peshka....actually wait, that's the average. 

[JG27*Kornezov]

That aircraft appears to be leaking a lot. Perhaps your washing machine is already constructed of old Pe2 parts.

Possible, but my wife swears she never  shot any 20 mm at it.

Edited November 8, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[THERION]

I dont think now someone will tell us that the same thing happened with the H111...

The Pe2 was hit a hundred times but managed to shot down 2 fighters with the gunners!!!

After all, it was more important to touch the 109'FM....

C'est la vie!

 

S!

 

Seems the Luftwaffe is pitiful and all and everyone is against them? 

 

I don't think so and I've read in other books by German pilots that especially the Me 109 couldn't take much punishment

and was very fragile. These pilots also stated (Günther Rall, Walter Mölders and Julius Meimberg) that the russian planes

could take quite a lot of punishment.

 

I get tired about the lamenting what plane or nation is badly modelled - please, have a bit more respect for the dev's work.

Thank you.

 

Cheers

[BraveSirRobin]

Possible, but my wife swears she never  shot any 20 mm at it.

She probably just wants a new washer. It probably would not help to admit that the old one leaks because she shot a 20mm at it.

[JG27*Kornezov]

Therion we do not even complain anymore. We just laugh. The pe 2 does not even care to take evasive action. Just flying strait to targets and taking with him at least 2 fighters who dare to attack him. I know there will be a lot of "arguments" from the red pilots who are really afraid that developers could eventually correct their asset.

And To Vade the germans were almost all sharp shooters they scored so many hits.

Edited November 8, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Well Pe2 won that unfair fight

[ITAF_Rani]

This is the best sim about airwar ww 2, we have.

And the Devs have all our respect and support for their efforts and future projects.

Of course samething could be modified..

We ll see..

[ITAF_Cymao]

 

 

Seems the Luftwaffe is pitiful and all and everyone is against them? I don't think so and I've read in other books by German pilots that especially the Me 109 couldn't take much punishment and was very fragile. These pilots also stated (Günther Rall, Walter Mölders and Julius Meimberg) that the russian planes could take quite a lot of punishment. I get tired about the lamenting what plane or nation is badly modelled - please, have a bit more respect for the dev's work. Thank you.

Maybe you didn't realize that there is a Pe2 in the video and nobody has talked about the fragility of BF109...

You'll be confused by not recognizing the silhouette of Pe2. It happens.

 

It would be interesting to know the hitbox of the Pe2 pilot and the Pe2 gunners
After more than a hundred shots they were still healthy and safe.
which is impossible if you are on a H111 and Ju88!!!

 

S!

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

 

 

It would be interesting to know the hitbox of the Pe2 pilot and the Pe2 gunners After more than a hundred shots they were still healthy and safe.

 

Yes I see the Pe-2 gunners survive extensive damage to the plane many times. Especially the bottom gunner must be wrapped in tank armor.

If the argument is that HE and Minengeschoss cause extra damage to internal parts... well I don´t see it happening at all especially with crew,

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

Just checked the stats, This plane here took a total of "drumm roll" 140 hits. :D :D :D

The people that attacked this Pe-2 only attacked this plane, so the number of hits is fairly easy to calculate! 33 hits alone were from a FW 190 with gunpods so a minimum of 10 20mm from this plane by itself!

[CUJO_1970]

Videos like this can be made about Pe-2 for days...Predictably, the first response to this thread is someone defending it

 

Reviewing recordings of Pe-2 intercepts in slow motion shows Pe-2 gunners and pilot typically do not receive any splinter or blast damage from MG/151. It seems only a direct hit kills or wounds them. Completely unrealistic - go read B-17 surviving crew tell about 20mm exploding inside their aircraft and what it did.

 

I've flown many, many intercepts against Pe-2 online at DED server - it is not unusual for Pe-2 to absorb 60-80-100 hits. In fact it is the norm and the online statistics as well as re-watching the videos are proof of it beyond a doubt. It is a well-known problem that has been ongoing for a long time. Pe-2 is taking more damage than a 4-engine heavy bomber could take and Pe-2 gunners are of a magnitude more accurate than any human could ever be.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Therion we do not even complain anymore. We just laugh. The pe 2 does not even care to take evasive action. Just flying strait to targets and taking with him at least 2 fighters who dare to attack him. I know there will be a lot of "arguments" from the red pilots who are really afraid that developers could eventually correct their asset.

And To Vade the germans were almost all sharp shooters they scored so many hits.

 

All you do is ceaselessly complain about any perceived inequity in your so beloved Luftwaffe planeset any time anybody or any topic presents you with an opportunity to do so.

 

Is there something off with the Pe-2 DM? Sure, I could agree with that... Is your never ending, whiny shitposting going to do anything about it? Definitely not.

[Finkeren]

What shocks me the most is how fast he keeps it flying and how well the Peshka climbs with wings made of Swiss cheese, and with external bombs no less.

 

I have flown the Pe-2 a bit online over the last couple of days, and while it is really sturdy (I’m willing to entertain the idea, that it’s too sturdy) it never seems to fly that well for me after receiving damage.

[CUJO_1970]

Straight six attacks are just bad with HE ammo.

 

It was shown during WW2 by actual and extensive Luftwaffe study to be the most effective way to shoot down a heavy bomber.

 

Seems to me he just got very lucky that no fires were started and no controls cut

 

He did not get "lucky". This was a fairly typical result for Pe-2 online.

 

not enough focussed fire into any particular part that would cause the wing to fail.

 

There was more than enough focused fire on 3 separate areas as shown in the video - the tail-plane, as well as more than enough focused fire to both wings behind each engine.

Edited November 8, 2017 by CUJO1970

[CUJO_1970]

OTOH I have done the same amount of damage to JU88s

 

With all due respect, no - you have not. (we know this, because the sim simply does not work this way)

 

So, respectfully, you nor anyone else on red side will be able to show multiple videos of Ju-88 receiving over 100 hits from any allied aircraft, nor will you be able to show online statistics demonstrating this with either Ju-88, He-111 or ME-110.

 

There is no relationship, absolutely none, between what a Pe-2 can absorb from MG 151/20MM with the comic simplicity an Allied fighter can shoot down a German multi-crew aircraft.

[ITAF_Cymao]

 

 

So, respectfully, you nor anyone else on red side will be able to show multiple videos of Ju-88 receiving over 100 hits from any allied aircraft, nor will you be able to show online statistics demonstrating this with either Ju-88, He-111 or ME-110.

Don't forget to say they must also make two aikills and have the whole crew healthy and saves after suffering more than 100 shots...

Who knows how many videos will we see?

[Finkeren]

One thing thst peplexes me is how rarely Pe-2s catch fire when I shoot at them in MP compared to when I shoot at them as AI in QMB (they are a favorite target of mine)

 

In SP more than 1/3 of my Peshka kills are flamers (which would make sense with the big, juicy wing tanks) but in MP I hardly ever see a Pe-2 catch fire.

 

I’m not saying that there is any difference in DM between the player and AI Peshkas, but I wonder what causes this difference?

[CUJO_1970]

One thing thst peplexes me is how rarely Pe-2s catch fire when I shoot at them in MP compared to when I shoot at them as AI in QMB (they are a favorite target of mine)

 

In SP more than 1/3 of my Peshka kills are flamers (which would make sense with the big, juicy wing tanks) but in MP I hardly ever see a Pe-2 catch fire.

 

I’m not saying that there is any difference in DM between the player and AI Peshkas, but I wonder what causes this difference?

 

I have started fires in Pe-2 wing two ways:

 

(1) extremely rare, lucky shot where every round from my FW-190 hit in perfect convergence at 290 meters - so all four 20MM cannons and both MGs hit at exactly the same spot at the back of the wing. I actually saved a screenshot from this impact that I will post later from my home computer.

 

(2) hitting inside one of the engines between the engine nacelle and fuselage on the top of the wing.

Edited November 8, 2017 by CUJO1970

[Finkeren]

I would argue, that I hit the top of the wings more often in MP, because I take much more care with my attack angles when dealing with human gunners.

 

(Except of course, when I get target fixated and park on his six like an asshat and let myself get killed - which I have also been known to do)

[Monostripezebra]

Rule 28 of BoS:

 

"A Pe 2 is always indestructible, until YOU fly it!"

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

Just wait until the reds get the A-20!

 

It's going to make the blues getting the Duck seem like a slap in the face. ( I RARELY see anyone even flying it anymore now that the novelty has worn off)

 

I can see WoL now, every 15 to 20 mins...

 

***CONGRATULATIONS TO THE TEAM OF THE ALLIES! THE MISSION WILL END IN 5 MINS***

 

The Pe-2's and IL-2's will smash the fragile blue tanks while the A-20's mercilessly pummel the other objectives. Sure, the blue bombers can carry decent bomb loads, but it's useless when they they can only withstand 1 or 2 bursts from Allied aircraft or AAA and struggle to even destroy a T-34 let alone a KV-1. I have a feeling that once the A-20 arrives there will be some serious re-balancing needed on WoL just for the sake of gameplay.

[BraveSirRobin]

Blue side should have no problem drowning Red targets with their tears.

[56RAF_Roblex]

this is what a *typical* SOLID pass looks like on a JU-88. 

 

Lol  Sherrif is not a 'typical' pilot and the Ju88 was in a tight turn so the wings were just waiting to come off even before he put a sustained concentrated burst into the upper surfaces at the wing roots instead of spreading his fire across the tail and trailing edge of an unloaded wing.  https://youtu.be/xFuQMlM-Nis?t=4m37s

 

There may be a problem with the PE2 that the whole of 1Cs team have missed but posting a clip one of the best pilots in the game getting a kill using superior tactics under better conditions devalues your whole case.  Make one of your own showing how you made 5 dead 6 attacks on an AI JU88s flying straight and each died in a single pass.  Not 'five selected clips of the best kills'.

Edited November 9, 2017 by 56RAF_Roblex

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

There *may* be a problem with the PE2 that the whole of 1Cs team have missed

 

:D Could it be possible? A problem that the whole 1C team missed? I don´t think so. Strong point mate! :D

 

Maybe you should dig in the forum and I´m sure you will find no history of any cases like that. We should be ashamed, shut up and just try to make these "feelings" we have a about the pe2 go away.

Edited November 9, 2017 by II/JG17_SchwarzeDreizehn

[I./ZG1_Radick]

Just wait until the reds get the A-20!

 

It's going to make the blues getting the Duck seem like a slap in the face. ( I RARELY see anyone even flying it anymore now that the novelty has worn off)

 

I can see WoL now, every 15 to 20 mins...

 

***CONGRATULATIONS TO THE TEAM OF THE ALLIES! THE MISSION WILL END IN 5 MINS***

 

The Pe-2's and IL-2's will smash the fragile blue tanks while the A-20's mercilessly pummel the other objectives. Sure, the blue bombers can carry decent bomb loads, but it's useless when they they can only withstand 1 or 2 bursts from Allied aircraft or AAA and struggle to even destroy a T-34 let alone a KV-1. I have a feeling that once the A-20 arrives there will be some serious re-balancing needed on WoL just for the sake of gameplay.

 

I wonder why you're playing on this server

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Yes it look like there is no damage made to Pe2 airframe despite dozen 20mm hits.

Besides smokes and decals plane is flying stable path. Simplification of structural damage deformation plus inability to shot off enough plane segments and lack or not enough impact of destroyed systems can render that image. What is unreal to me the most is how gunner can survive that bombardment and if wounded his accuracy is still that high. Im sure that something can be done to Pe2 damage model to make it look and feel more realistic. I understand that there need to be simplification and maybe just making gunners more human alike is enough to stop Pe2 case returning like bumerang. Btw in DD120 there announcement about that.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

Tomcat,

I generally agree, but:

 

 

 

Btw in DD120 there announcement about that.

 

Are you being sarcastic? You do realize that was like 2 years and 5 patches including a total overhaul ago.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Videos like this can be made about Pe-2 for days...Predictably, the first response to this thread is someone defending it

 

Reviewing recordings of Pe-2 intercepts in slow motion shows Pe-2 gunners and pilot typically do not receive any splinter or blast damage from MG/151. It seems only a direct hit kills or wounds them. Completely unrealistic - go read B-17 surviving crew tell about 20mm exploding inside their aircraft and what it did.

 

I've flown many, many intercepts against Pe-2 online at DED server - it is not unusual for Pe-2 to absorb 60-80-100 hits. In fact it is the norm and the online statistics as well as re-watching the videos are proof of it beyond a doubt. It is a well-known problem that has been ongoing for a long time. Pe-2 is taking more damage than a 4-engine heavy bomber could take and Pe-2 gunners are of a magnitude more accurate than any human could ever be.

 

Sure, as soon as you post some evidence of comparative testing with similar aircraft you get my vote. The problem is that it's so much easier to cry imbalance than it is to do some actual legwork and see if there actually is any inconsistency. The fact that it is the same people ranting only ever about one particular side being treated unfairly really doesn't help your case.

 

You can keep posting your anecdotal evidence and being smug about this, but you really need more than that.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Just wait until the reds get the A-20!

 

It's going to make the blues getting the Duck seem like a slap in the face. ( I RARELY see anyone even flying it anymore now that the novelty has worn off)

 

I can see WoL now, every 15 to 20 mins...

 

***CONGRATULATIONS TO THE TEAM OF THE ALLIES! THE MISSION WILL END IN 5 MINS***

 

The Pe-2's and IL-2's will smash the fragile blue tanks while the A-20's mercilessly pummel the other objectives. Sure, the blue bombers can carry decent bomb loads, but it's useless when they they can only withstand 1 or 2 bursts from Allied aircraft or AAA and struggle to even destroy a T-34 let alone a KV-1. I have a feeling that once the A-20 arrives there will be some serious re-balancing needed on WoL just for the sake of gameplay.

 

 

I played ground attack fairly extensively on the German side on WoL, just to see if it's as impossible as people say. Hs129 is a capable tank buster, the G2 is extremely good when available, the E2 is acceptable in this role as well and the bombers are very capable against any lined up armour due to insane quantities of ordnance on them. The main issue I kept running into over and over was the complete lack of escort and protection from fighters over the targets. Even when calling in attacks it was just impossible to get any protection most of the time.

 

If Germans would play the objective and protect their attackers there'd be no issues. You also see that as soon as a capable group of attackers go Germans they generally do just fine and have a good chance of winning. When that group is not there they mostly lose. Few individuals feel like bashing their heads into a wall while their protection is all pulling contrails near the enemy air bases.

 

I'd love to fly the 129 more, but it's an exercise in frustration without CAP over the targets.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Windmills

[ITAF_Cymao]

The premise is that the German side loses because it plays badly!

 

 

What is unreal to me the most is how gunner can survive that bombardment and if wounded his accuracy is still that high. Im sure that something can be done to Pe2 damage model to make it look and feel more realistic. I understand that there need to be simplification and maybe just making gunners more human alike is enough to stop Pe2 case returning like bumerang.

Half the work is done, the german gunners are human!

 

 

The real problem is that many think that there isn't problem, that the things done are just so!

They know only say that we are the usual luftwhiner, the usual whiners etc. etc.

After all we can't ask a blind man to see!

 

S!

Edited November 9, 2017 by ITAF_Cymao

[LLv24_Veccu_VR]

Better not to attack Pe-2 if you want to stay alive, just hartmann at 7k

 

... or just ram it, It will in most cases shoot you down anyway

 

happy landings...

 

Veccu