4K default skins

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

S!~ All! 

 

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, or if it is already implemented, but are we going to have 4K stock default skins?...  Or is it only available for single player use?

 

I myself am not savvy with skin making but I've seen the beauty of the ones created...

 

Thanks!

[6./ZG26_Custard]

From what I remember, its going to remain at 2K stock skins for the foreseeable future. You can of course download loads of wonderful 4K skins here:  https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/107-4k-skins-and-templates/ which can be seen by folks who also have that skin. 

 

I'm just hoping that when a Mods on mode eventually arrives, we will have some bright spark, come out with a mod that will allow skins to be automatically loaded onto a server and installed for everyone using that server. 

[Voidhunger]

The new gui button "save skin and loadout" would be much appreciated

[Jade_Monkey]

The new gui button "save skin and loadout" would be much appreciated

This ^

 

Also, my understanding is that the reason why they dont want 4K skins by default is to not slow down people with older hardware.

 

What if it was a setting in graphics, or part of the presets, so people with slower pcs just use the current ones and people who want 4k can enable them without using custom skins.

 

Yes, someone would have to make them all again in 4K but i think that wont be a problem. We have very talented skinners in the community that have already made lots of great skins for the official game.

[LukeFF]

 

 

Also, my understanding is that the reason why they dont want 4K skins by default is to not slow down people with older hardware.

 

Nope, Jason said it's because it would take more time for his graphics artists to make 4K official skins. 

[MrNoice]

the Community could provide perfect 4k skins I think....

[WIS-Redcoat]

Even if they gave us at least one 4K option per airframe that would be nice. They are so much better

Edited November 7, 2017 by WISredcoat22

[MrNoice]

yes the normal one's look like from 2006...

Edited November 7, 2017 by MrFies

[Tapi]

IMHO at least new planes for BOK should have 4K default skins... Are there any statements from devs about 4K BOK skins?

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Yes even if it were just the default skin, one for winter and one for summer...

The custom skins are usually locked on multiplayer servers, so that isn't really fun

[Jade_Monkey]

Once the template is done, creating 4K skins takes the same amount of time as the 2K skins.

 

I understand that the template takes most of the work but i think it might be worth it.

[Psyrion]

Yes even if it were just the default skin, one for winter and one for summer...

The custom skins are usually locked on multiplayer servers, so that isn't really fun

They're not usually locked. Only Wings has them locked.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

For now 2k will have to do since there's not enough time to rework each aircraft to have 4k. From a standpoint of product consistency it also doesn't make sense to give it to a selected few aircraft although it sure would be appreciated.

 

I remember Jason mentioning this might be considered for future products (pacific) though.

Edited November 7, 2017 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Jade_Monkey]

I dont want to volunteer other people's time, but it sounds like this could be easily done by community members and then vetted by the devs.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

That still means taking dev time (which is somewhere between scarce and non-existent) and putting it into checking 32 skins at least once, giving out detailed feedback then checking the reworked version. That in itself is not simple.

[Jade_Monkey]

That still means taking dev time (which is somewhere between scarce and non-existent) and putting it into checking 32 skins at least once, giving out detailed feedback then checking the reworked version. That in itself is not simple.

We are talking about skins here, not flight models.

[ShamrockOneFive]

My impression is that the art team, like the rest of the dev team, is really busy doing a lot of different things. I'm sure Jason knows we'd love to see 4K default skins across the board and that will definitely be an upgrade to the skins we have. When they have time to fit in such a project in the schedule I'm sure they will do it. In the meantime they gave us the tech so we can do it ourselves.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

I dont want to volunteer other people's time, but it sounds like this could be easily done by community members and then vetted by the devs.

Well how much work would it be to take an all ready 4k basic skin and turn that into a default skin?

Probably just certifying it with the development team and then they change a file for release...

I obviously don't know the process but hey!

[BlackHellHound1]

The production of 4K templates for a plane is a lot of work. A lot more than a 2K template. Keep in mind that a 4K skin has 4x more pixels! This means that 4K skins require a lot more detail to be added.

 

A good example is writing that is placed in several locations on the plane. On a 2k template, you can simply write some nonsense and then scale it down to the correct size and it will look accurate most of the time. Simply because there are not enough pixels to display the letters. What you end up with is basicly a smudge. With a 4K skin, however, these writings are often clearly visible and readable requiring some research into the correct font and exact words.

Another example is that of screws, on a 2k skin the screws and rivets are displayed with the same shape. A single pixel. Making a screw look like a real screw (would require at least 3x3 pixels) would make it far too big to the point that it looks cartoonish. However, on a 4K skin, these screws can easily be made with some accuracy and look very realistic. Not to forget the different types of screws. 

There are many more things that can need to be worked out in so much more depth to make them look real. The extra time required doing research and making the template will take an incredible amount of time. 

 

And then there is also the matter of making the Specular map (how glossy something is) and the Normal Map (fake 3d effect). These also need to be remade. Depending on the detail you want, this can also take an extra week of work. 

 

Making the skins for the planes once the template is done, is relatively easy. Of course, the plane's customisation will require more detail in custom markings (writing, emblems etc.) which will take more time to make. However, making the general camouflage patterns does not take that much more time. 

 

I understand that most of you will have a hard time understanding how much time it takes to make a good template in 4K. I can, however, from experience say that it can take weeks (or even months if you want extreme detail) of dedicated work to make such a template.

 

This means that making a single 4K skin for each plane is not worth it. It would take months (if not several years) to make 4K templates for each plane. (Also, there are 32 planes in the BoX games combined!)

 

Looking at what the game developers are doing and how much content they are putting out in such short time, I would not want them to spend much time making 4K skins. I have no doubt that other, more important, parts of the development would suffer. 

 

Of course, the community could do it but most seem to forget how few people actually have the skill to make good templates. Making a skin is very easy (Still quite dificult though) when compared to making a 4k template! If something on a skin is slightly out of place: who will notice! If something on a template is slightly out of place, it will affect the entire template and every skin made with! In fact, the entire plane could look wrong because of a slightly misaligned line. 

On top of that, if several artists made the templates, then there would be some significant difference in the art style. Which would, probably, look wrong in the game.

 

4K skins would be nice but I do not see how every plane in this game will receive a 4K skin. Not even from the community. It would simply take an unrealistic amount of time and money to make them.

 

BlackHellHound1

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by BlackHellHound1

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I propose a "ICDP's templates/default skins for official integration 2018" campaign.

[WIS-Redcoat]

I thought most of the 4K templates were already done by the community?  So are we lamenting hard work that is already done or am I missing something?

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

I thought most of the 4K templates were already done by the community? So are we lamenting hard work that is already done or am I missing something?

That's what I was saying... I thought the templates were already done, so why can't we just get those saved as defaults?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Because it sets a standard. If you make 20 aircraft with 4K skins, you'll need the other 12 plus any future ones to be made in 4K otherwise it looks unprofessional. Since you cannot always count on community members to deliver it, one way or another the workload lands at the developer's side at some point. It's a cool idea, but not worth it from a monetary point of view.

Edited November 8, 2017 by 216th_Lucas_From_Hell

[Livai]

Nope, Jason said it's because it would take more time for his graphics artists to make 4K official skins. 

 

If skins were made in 4k in the first place and downscaled to 2k things could look much different. The amout of time you invested to create 4k skins in the first place the reward is twice first you hold the jocker card with the Ultra HD Texture Pack that upgrade the Texture to a much higher resolution to the time where you feel it is right to show it second it's open you the way to sell the Ultra HD Texture Pack as DLC, plain and simple............................

[Gambit21]

If skins were made in 4k in the first place and downscaled to 2k things could look much different. The amout of time you invested to create 4k skins in the first place the reward is twice first you hold the jocker card with the Ultra HD Texture Pack that upgrade the Texture to a much higher resolution to the time where you feel it is right to show it second it's open you the way to sell the Ultra HD Texture Pack as DLC, plain and simple............................

 

So create 4K skins initially, downsample them and those smaller 2K textures are the default skins.

Then sell the 4K upgrade as DLC.

 

Yeah - that doesn't ring at all like something this team would do...thankfully.

It's very "Loft'esque" though in it's "get everyone mad at you" quality.

[Tapi]

 

 

If skins were made in 4k in the first place and downscaled to 2k things could look much different. The amout of time you invested to create 4k skins in the first place the reward is twice first you hold the jocker card with the Ultra HD Texture Pack that upgrade the Texture to a much higher resolution to the time where you feel it is right to show it second it's open you the way to sell the Ultra HD Texture Pack as DLC, plain and simple............................

 

IMHO not a bad idea. We all know dev team is small and needs money to be able to continually expand and improve the game. If they from time to time offer something that is not mandatory but improves visuals I think at least some part of community buy it and consider this as a sort of donation to the devs. I think they should consider more paid DLC content if they need money. None of us wants to see end of IL-2 saga and everyone wants continually expanding game....

[7.GShAP/Silas]

These developers never get a break, even by flight-sim standards.  If they did that now there would be endless numbers of bitter, grumpy men writing poor reviews and discouraging purchasing the products on forums because they view it as a scam rather than as offering something that required extra work in return for a bit of much-needed money.  There is no way they would not be dragged in the mud for it.

 

Maybe once Kuban development is finished or very close and they have a window of some time, they could offer 4K versions of the official skins as an upgrade pack and people would view it more charitably(as continuing support for the eastern front series) .  It would also help extend the lifespan of all the hard work they've already invested.

[Pupo]

I support this montion. Yes. IT is hard work. But so is increasing draw distance for terrain, clouds, re working reflections and all the cool graphics updates we have been getting. I believe in the Dev team on this department. 4K skins will come one of these days.

[Ribbon]

As Pupo said there are ton more important gfx thimgs while 4k skins are available for custom use.

Forum section 4k skins amd templates

[216th_Jordan]

I understand they went with 2k as they already started modeling the BoK skins in 2k and it needs to be consistent. For Midway however making 2k skins juts does not make sense. Again, you can downscale 4k skins, but you cannot upscale 2k to 4k skins. An initial 4k template should not be more difficult than an initial 2k template. Also the designers make such nice skins, just to have them hampered by a low resolution. 

 

If there is a 2k sample of every 4k skin this could also be a very good graphics option for lower end rigs.

 

I do by the way not think they would need to offer an 4k upgraded version for BoS, BoM, BoK. (if they want that, thats a different deal of course). You can't have every feature ever necessarily.

Edited November 9, 2017 by 216th_Jordan

[=WH=PangolinWranglin]

I don't really care about the enemy being in 4k, but what I want to see is my skin in 4k. The enemy I'll (almost) never see up close enough to be able to tell "yup, that's a high quality skin". I can live with custom skins, but I'll always welcome any improvement that the devs can make. 

[Jade_Monkey]

I don't really care about the enemy being in 4k, but what I want to see is my skin in 4k. The enemy I'll (almost) never see up close enough to be able to tell "yup, that's a high quality skin". I can live with custom skins, but I'll always welcome any improvement that the devs can make.

Same

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

IMHO not a bad idea.

 

-snip-

 

It is an absolutely, tremendously horrible idea.

 

-snip-

 

It's very "Loft'esque" though in it's "get everyone mad at you" quality.

 

Exactly! 

[Gambit21]

I don't really care about the enemy being in 4k, but what I want to see is my skin in 4k. The enemy I'll (almost) never see up close enough to be able to tell "yup, that's a high quality skin". I can live with custom skins, but I'll always welcome any improvement that the devs can make.

 

Exactly

[Ribbon]

Gimp 2.8 + 4k templates and you'll never use default skin again, it's not hard to learn skinning. 

I learned it in few hours creating my own layers and skins for whole squadron, it's cool to have your own decals, tac number and name on your plane!

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Gimp 2.8 + 4k templates and you'll never use default skin again, it's not hard to learn skinning.

I learned it in few hours creating my own layers and skins for whole squadron, it's cool to have your own decals, tac number and name on your plane!

Wow you can really see those rivets quite clear!

[Jade_Monkey]

Gimp 2.8 + 4k templates and you'll never use default skin again, it's not hard to learn skinning.

I learned it in few hours creating my own layers and skins for whole squadron, it's cool to have your own decals, tac number and name on your plane!

Agreed, im not a great skinner, especially bad at weathering, but it's a ton of fun!!

[Gambit21]

Yeah there's a lot to it actually - just take one step at a time. Decals/numbers etc are simple and a good way to get your feet wet.

[BlackHellHound1]

Making a skin with an existing template is very easy. Change a few colours, add some decals and look a nice looking skin. I encourage you all to try it yourself. It is great fun after all!

This does, however, not come close to what it is like to make the 4K template. The amount of time, effort, and research it takes is tremendous. I can make a historical skin in about 6 or so hours (if it is not a difficult one). But making a template will takes weeks or months. 

 

Without this template, most of you couldn't even make a skin!

 

Of course, a lot of 4k templates have been made but you also need to ask if de devs consider these templates to be high enough quality to add to the game. Anything that ends up in this game, gets their approval and thus, is also partly their responsibility. I doubt that they would add any 4K templates that they consider too low quality.

 

BlackHellHound1

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by BlackHellHound1

[Gambit21]

Making a skin with an existing template is very easy. Change a few colours, add some decals and look a nice looking skin. I encourage you all to try it yourself. It is great fun after all!

This does, however, not come close to what it is like to make the 4K template. The amount of time, effort, and research it takes is tremendous. I can make a historical skin in about 6 or so hours (if it is not a difficult one). But making a template will takes weeks or months.

:

No doubt.

I texture my 3D aircraft models with 6k texture maps, displacement maps, including diffuse etc and I it takes me some weeks working 2 to 4 hours a night.

 

The templates make skinning accessible for anyone though, and I would urge everyone to give it a whirl. Add a custom number, or a pin-up on the side of your crate! You can have a unique skin in a few minutes.