Looking for a new Joystick (maybe VKB)

[SAG]

Hey guys, im looking into buying a new joystick and the VKB Gladiator Mk.II seemed pretty nice and relatively cheap (100USD) do any of you guys use it and if so what do you think of it?

 

im a bit worried about the reliability of the device though since i read some reviews where the joystick was DoA and VKB support wouldn't be of much help. I also read conflicting accounts on it needing to use VKBs allegedly crappy drivers and others where it says that the device is fully plug-and-play. im a bit confused on what to expect.

 

does anyone have it and can attest to the quality/reliability of the product? I'm talking about the NON-Pro version here.

 

if it turns out to be a joystick i want, where or how could i buy one since they're out of stock on amazon?

 

and finally, what other 100USD range joysticks would you recommend?

 

 

I'd appreciate any help and questions answered, even if you don't know all the answers please leave your feedback 

 

 

Thanks in Advance for any potential replies!!  

[ShamrockOneFive]

I reviewed the first gen version (which isn't that different) and I feel pretty good about it.

 

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/%EF%BB%BFreview-vkb-gladiator/

 

Even nearly a year later I'd say that its the best stick you can buy for the money. The precision on the sensors from VKB are extremely good (better than I've experienced) and while the stick is pure plastic... its at least a high grade of plastic. So it won't wow with a metal feel to it but its really good. It's also driver-less and the easiest stick I've ever had to setup. Its huge difference from the trouble I had in the last few years with Saitek/Madcatz terrible Windows 10 drivers.

[Field-Ops]

https://vkbcontrollers.com/

 

I love mine. I've upgraded from a Saitek X52 ( i kept the throttle ) and I wouldnt look back. I even got the stick extension and I've never had more coordinated flying and accurate gunnery. Its entirely plug and play for me. I'll be getting their throttle when they release it. 

[SAG]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I didnt know that there was a VKB north america site... 

 

now ill just need to figure out how to get the darn thing to Colombia 

[szelljr]

https://www.ravcore.com/produkty/javelin/

I have the "replica" joy ,is ok....( i buyed for 60-65 $)

[sinned]

Vkb gladiator is very very good. Very precise and customizable.

[TP_Silk]

I own a VKB Gladiator Pro (1st gen) and am generally extremely happy with it. The only fault I have had with it is that one of the button switches has now failed twice. The first time VKB were kind enough to send out a replacement PCB for that component, the second time I'm getting a friend to take one of the working switches off the one that originally failed to solder back onto the replacement board.

As for accuracy and general use I really can't fault the product.

[Finkeren]

The Gladiator Mk II has a strengthened trigger.

[SAG]

I really really want one! is availability on their site good?

[Ribbon]

I have vkb gunfighter and it is simming perfection but it is expensive too so i can only recommend you joystick i had before and that is thrustmaster T16000m, i still think it is amazing and still use it for space games cos it's gimbal spring system isn't exponetial, tension is same at all deflections/angles which is very good for space wink"sims"wink.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I really really want one! is availability on their site good?

 

VKB's availability across all platforms is pretty bad, honestly.

[CUJO_1970]

I reviewed the first gen version (which isn't that different) and I feel pretty good about it.

 

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/11/%EF%BB%BFreview-vkb-gladiator/

 

Even nearly a year later I'd say that its the best stick you can buy for the money. The precision on the sensors from VKB are extremely good (better than I've experienced) and while the stick is pure plastic... its at least a high grade of plastic. So it won't wow with a metal feel to it but its really good. It's also driver-less and the easiest stick I've ever had to setup. Its huge difference from the trouble I had in the last few years with Saitek/Madcatz terrible Windows 10 drivers.

 

Great review Shamrock! Thank you for posting.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

PRO is out of stock as it seems... difficult position... demand is higher than production rate. I need one too

[Sokol1]

im a bit worried about the reliability of the device though since i read some reviews where the joystick was DoA and VKB support wouldn't be of much help. 

 

Could have happen DOA with some units (as happens with any products), but generally VKB support has been working well. Consider that may take time, since VKB production is small in 2/3 anual batches, and has only 3 sales point in the whole world.

 

The most common cases of failures as broken trigger in Gladiator "vanilla" Mk.I (~1%) but VKB address this issue making the trigger in

.

 

And spring broken in Gladiator PRO/Gunfighter gimbal, but replacement is available.

 

 

I also read conflicting accounts on it needing to use VKBs allegedly crappy drivers and others where it says that the device is fully plug-and-play.

 

VKB joysticks don't use custom drivers, use Windows native HID drivers, so their install is "PnP".

 

What some people mess is when they desire load a different buttons profile in firmware, and ending making confusion with various versions of VKB soft (VKB DevCFG or Wizzo), but their are easy to use, I used several times for upgrade firmware in my VKB T-Rudder, but "people being people" all can happen.

 

 

... what other 100USD range joysticks would you recommend?

 

That's the problem, the only alternatives for similar cost is Tm T.16000M, what in overall is inferior of VKB Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" or maybe CH Combatstick, a very durable joystick - without no common failures like happens with Saitek's or Warthog, what will happen with time of use is need to replace potentiometer, what at least in the past (don't know the actual situation*) was furnished by CH, but since this line of joysticks is not updated since ~2000, their USB controller is for today standards obsolete (most use 10/12/14/15 bits), with only 8 bits (256 "steeps" on axis) resolution. DCSW helicopter virtual pilots say that this low resolution became evident with heli.

 

Probable for buyers outside of USA/Canada the best option (may not the cheap) for buy VKB's is - WHEN AVAILABLE** - in Flightsincontrols (Netherlands),there Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" cost 77 Euros, plus around 35 Euros of shipping. Other option is from VKB China, but may shipping cost more - you can ask though sales@vkb-sim.pro, write in English.

 

** Currently VKB Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla" is available there (FSC).

 

* In my personal experience and from colleague trying buy pot from CH is that they are biased if you are not from USA/Europe, my mail requesting was not answered and my colleague need the "sponsorship" of know simmer related with CH to get your pot's years ago.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Sokol1

[SAG]

So there really arent any more options in the 100USD range? i guess that flightsims aren't the market they used to be :/

[Sokol1]

Around $100  ($80-120 range) never had good offer of joysticks, in the past are only CH F-16 Combatstick and Fighterstick, now are VKB Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla". Was more options costing less (entry level) or few options costing more (high level).

 

Existed more options in "entry level" range ~$40 - 60, that now is restrict to Logitech 3D PRO (Saitek's (Cyborg, X, etc) low cost models are withdrawn from production by Logitech), other than this is Thrustmaster X, HOTAS X/4/One with their crap low cost potentiometers*  (like 3D PRO) or some "non brand" Chinese joysticks, even worse.

 

In European market are OEM versions of VKB Gladiator - Airrow, Javelin, but the difference in price don't justify don't buy an original VKB.

 

* IMO - In 2017 is a error buy an joystick that use potentiometer in X, Y axes, even if CH ones (that at least use good pot), seems that the market is getting more educated and refusing low cost/quality joystick, so the "entry level" range is smaller now.

 

 

i guess that flightsims aren't the market they used to be

 

Which has encouraged traditional manufacturers to release something, like old models with new colors, e.g. Tm FCS, Saitek X-56... is the space sim genre.

Really new products from this brands only Thrustmater TWCS throttle and their Flight Rudder Pedal.

 

But in joystick options things are now better, with this "Next Gen" high end products by "joystick boutique": Baur, MFG, Slaw, VPC(VirPil) and VKB and custom made like GVL224, Kantori - despite their low production/availability and high price. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Sokol1

[ShamrockOneFive]

So there really arent any more options in the 100USD range? i guess that flightsims aren't the market they used to be :/

 

There really hasn't been much in that price range for a long long time. Maybe the Sidewinder series back in the day but even then there were only a couple of serious options. There are cheapo sticks for well under $100 but not worth it IMHO. The $100 ones like the VKB Gladiator are pretty much as good as it gets in that price range and then you take the leap and invest $500ish on the fanciest sets available.

Edited November 3, 2017 by ShamrockOneFive

[Lensman]

If it hasn't got force-feedback then I'm not interested. I've been using EVERY variant of IL-2 with FF since the beginning and it's VERY important.

[LukeFF]

If it hasn't got force-feedback then I'm not interested. I've been using EVERY variant of IL-2 with FF since the beginning and it's VERY important.

Well, then your choices are going to be very, very limited.

[Lensman]

Well, then your choices are going to be very, very limited.

That's why I have 3 spare MS Sidewinder FF 2 sticks in my garage and often keep an eye on the regular sales on Ebay ... QED no problem after all but thanks for your interest.

[SAG]

Is forceFeedback patented or something? 

why not even the most expensive consumer sticks have it these days?

[Sokol1]

Immersion and Logitech has some patent on this, and money involved in their use is big - why is not option for small manufacturers like VKB, Baur/VPC.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony

 

BTW - In DCS forum are a topic about a "Open Source" Force Feedback joystick, but in a year little progress was done.

 

Similar initiative from Racing Simmers has better result:

 

http://opensimwheel.wikidot.com/

Edited November 5, 2017 by Sokol1

[SeaW0lf]

Is forceFeedback patented or something? 

why not even the most expensive consumer sticks have it these days?

 

Perhaps the market thought that players were only playing space games or piloting jets at DCS. It is really a shame that a supposed top notch stick brand can't release a good FFB. In my view it is the reflection of how flight simulators have impacted the market with what they have delivered over the past years. In other words, not much.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Love my gladiator mki pro,

[mesfigas]

On 11/3/2017 at 3:42 AM, Sokol1 said:

Around $100  ($80-120 range) never had good offer of joysticks, in the past are only CH F-16 Combatstick and Fighterstick, now are VKB Gladiator Mk.II "vanilla". Was more options costing less (entry level) or few options costing more (high level).

 

Existed more options in "entry level" range ~$40 - 60, that now is restrict to Logitech 3D PRO (Saitek's (Cyborg, X, etc) low cost models are withdrawn from production by Logitech), other than this is Thrustmaster X, HOTAS X/4/One with their crap low cost potentiometers*  (like 3D PRO) or some "non brand" Chinese joysticks, even worse.

 

In European market are OEM versions of VKB Gladiator - Airrow, Javelin, but the difference in price don't justify don't buy an original VKB.

 

* IMO - In 2017 is a error buy an joystick that use potentiometer in X, Y axes, even if CH ones (that at least use good pot), seems that the market is getting more educated and refusing low cost/quality joystick, so the "entry level" range is smaller now.

 

 

 

Which has encouraged traditional manufacturers to release something, like old models with new colors, e.g. Tm FCS, Saitek X-56... is the space sim genre.

Really new products from this brands only Thrustmater TWCS throttle and their Flight Rudder Pedal.

 

But in joystick options things are now better, with this "Next Gen" high end products by "joystick boutique": Baur, MFG, Slaw, VPC(VirPil) and VKB and custom made like GVL224, Kantori - despite their low production/availability and high price. 

 

wow ressurecting this topic cause of this :* IMO - In 2017 is a error buy an joystick that use potentiometer in X, Y axes, even if CH ones (that at least use good pot), seems that the market is getting more educated and refusing low cost/quality joystick, so the "entry level" range is smaller now.

 

someone please en-light me ?

i m a sim racer myself and want to buy a joystick but dont have a lot of money

if  potentiometer is an eroro what is the corect ?

Thanks in advance guys

contact less senor axis might be the answer i m searching ? which leads me to javelin cause no thrustmaster 16000m atm in Greece.

[Sokol1]

Potentiometer wear out with use, potentiometer used in low cost joysticks are low cost/quality, and worse, non available for replacement - joystick pot is special model with limited "electric angle", it is not sold in electronic component stores (Digikey, Mouser...).

 

T.16000M use contactless sensor (MELEXIS MLX90333 - same used in Warthog) in main axes (X,Y = aileron, elevator control) and ordinary pot (low cost/quality) in secondary axes: throttle and twist rudder, cost around $60*. Is the best option in this price range.

 

* Packed with TWCS throttle cost $100 in Amazon.com.

 

Javelin - OEM version of VKB Gladiator "vanilla", but with less features, is good alternative for T.16000M.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Sokol1

[mesfigas]

Thanks for the answer mate

i will buy Javelin tommorow

btw i m here cause i was searching reviews about javeling and i have no idea what game is this that people talk at this forum

gonna search at youtube to watch some videos

cheers guys

[HunDread]

1 hour ago, mesfigas said:

Thanks for the answer mate

i will buy Javelin tommorow

btw i m here cause i was searching reviews about javeling and i have no idea what game is this that people talk at this forum

gonna search at youtube to watch some videos

cheers guys

 

Last chance to turn away before you get totally hooked and forget your other games. Blue pill....red pill ?

[[MoKaMbO]jrepas]

Sab I have a Javelin at home if you interested

 

[HunDread]

9 hours ago, -[HRAF]Arrow19 said:

Sab I have a Javelin at home if you interested

 

 

Hey Arrow, thanks for that. Actually I've been playing with the idea of getting a Virpil stick but for that I'd need to get back in the sim first. I haven't been too active during the summer.