Multiplayer - Giving your virtual life worth.

[CanadaOne]

Suppose you have a point, I mean, the tanks, artillery, AAA, bunkers, trains, and many other man-occupied stations we gun down on regular... we are gunning at the man behind the wheel, so once the airman has bailed, he's defenseless and not a threat anymore..

It just feels like an execution when you kill the man dangling helplessly from a silk sheet...

Even though it's just a mass of pixel's. ..

But war is war, and we can only do our best to preserve as much life as possible... virtually...

 

Oh! P.s. CanadaOne, that yak-1b is a delight to fly as you said! Thanks a bunch

 

My pleasure. As I said, you can blame Feathered IV for starting the gifting process.

 

As to what constitutes acceptable violence in the game, I'm merely exploring one side of the discussion. I can't say I'm right or wrong, just that the issue itself raises many questions. Some of them are doubtlessly annoying, but I think they deserve to be explored.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

There is no right or wrong....

Wait!!! We haven't even introduced 'gore' like in original il2... now that's a feature I'd like.. when attacking a bomber and seeing the gunner station smeared in blood, satisfying....

 

Not really but without it they just look like they are sleepin...

 

Ohhhh or a red mist when getting chute kills.....

 

Sorry I went overboard...

 

 

 

"Do, or do not, there is no try..."

-Yoda

Aaaaanywho, it's to each there own. Chute kill, honour system, it is what it is...

 

I love plane.

[CanadaOne]

Perhaps it could be asked why chute kills are possible at all in BOX.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Because if it wasn't then people would complain no?

[CanadaOne]

And yet it  is possible and some people complain when that possibility is acted upon.

 

Tough crowd.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

All in all, I don't do it,

"hmmmn, no Sir, I don't like it!"- mr.Horse

I suppose it's all about self expression...

[ZachariasX]

Interesting notions of civility in a game that simulates the most savage part of the most savage war ever to take place on the planet.

 

Perhaps the armament on the planes should be replaced with paintball cannons.

 

"I've been hit!"

 

The typical damage done by the Farbkugelschiesssystem, also known as the "Hippie-Gerät". It is the most terrible weapon. It is made to encourage art and creativity in the minds of the enemy to weaken his will to conduct war. How effective this weapon is can be illustrated by the fact that countless wars haven't even been fought because the wider public felt like having other things to do. Needless to say this weapon can inflict tremendous collateral damage ("The first who can paint Mona Lisa on a Spitfire wins a free drink!"), it was banned from use.

 

So, I hope you understand that even in a simulation of war, there are limits of what you should do.

[Royal_Flight]

Interesting notions of civility in a game that simulates the most savage part of the most savage war ever to take place on the planet.

 

Perhaps the armament on the planes should be replaced with paintball cannons.

 

With respect, I think you're missing the point a bit.

Allow me to play counter-devil's advocate to your points.

 

We're not in a real brutal war, rather a simulation of one. So we're just throwing ones and zeros at a damage model, rather than high explosive shells at aircraft to tear apart the human bodies inside.

Obviously, if we were seeing our actual comrades die, or living in austere conditions and putting our lives at risk in an industrial-scale meat grinder of a total war then chute-killing might be an accepted and valid tactic.

 

But we're all sitting at home, playing a game for fun, at the end of the day.

I doubt there are many people online who measure their success in how many bereaved families they've created or COs who have been made to sit up late at night writing letters home. For most people, it's the thrill of getting airborne, the concentration required to navigate to a target and manage systems, and the focus and level-headedness to dive through a curtain of flak and land a bomb directly on target, or to choreograph an improvised 3D ballet to outdo the other man and bring guns to bear.

 

If the same level of attention was required, it would (probably) almost be as fun to do all of the above while piloting grey rectangles around a blank background - the setting almost doesn't matter.

We're all into our history, so we get to combine the piloting challenge with as authentic a representation of the eastern front air war as we can.

Some people love sci-fi and technology so they do it in space.

Other people like modern aircraft, or subs or strategy or whatever so they play games that give them that.

But as long as the paintball guns made an enemy aircraft break apart and go down - it could burst into flowers for all it would matter - people probably wouldn't mind so much as long as they get to have the victory.

 

The point being, the skilled bit and the big endorphin payoff we're after is from shooting down the aircraft. After that, killing the guy on the chute seems petty and spiteful, especially as we know we're all people who share a hobby and are just looking for an evening's fun distraction from the real world.

 

This got long-winded, I'm not saying you're wrong but here's the other side of the coin. The brutality and stuff doesn't phase me and I don't anyone is looking to sanitise the experience, but as deep down we all know it's a game we can afford to treat each other with a degree of respect as we know we're all going to see another dawn after our combat missions, it's a game and should be fun.

If some people find chute-killing disrespectful, then it's enough for me not to do it.

Same with shoulder-shooting, same with spamming chat with nonsense or sending abusive messages, or - heaven forbid - cheating.

 

Even flying killers have standards.

My thoughts anyway.

[CanadaOne]

The typical damage done by the Farbkugelschiesssystem, also known as the "Hippie-Gerät". It is the most terrible weapon. It is made to encourage art and creativity in the minds of the enemy to weaken his will to conduct war. How effective this weapon is can be illustrated by the fact that countless wars haven't even been fought because the wider public felt like having other things to do. Needless to say this weapon can inflict tremendous collateral damage ("The first who can paint Mona Lisa on a Spitfire wins a free drink!"), it was banned from use.

 

So, I hope you understand that even in a simulation of war, there are limits of what you should do.

 

 

Excellent!

[CanadaOne]

With respect, I think you're missing the point a bit.

Allow me to play counter-devil's advocate to your points.

 

We're not in a real brutal war, rather a simulation of one. So we're just throwing ones and zeros at a damage model, rather than high explosive shells at aircraft to tear apart the human bodies inside.

Obviously, if we were seeing our actual comrades die, or living in austere conditions and putting our lives at risk in an industrial-scale meat grinder of a total war then chute-killing might be an accepted and valid tactic.

 

But we're all sitting at home, playing a game for fun, at the end of the day.

I doubt there are many people online who measure their success in how many bereaved families they've created or COs who have been made to sit up late at night writing letters home. For most people, it's the thrill of getting airborne, the concentration required to navigate to a target and manage systems, and the focus and level-headedness to dive through a curtain of flak and land a bomb directly on target, or to choreograph an improvised 3D ballet to outdo the other man and bring guns to bear.

 

If the same level of attention was required, it would (probably) almost be as fun to do all of the above while piloting grey rectangles around a blank background - the setting almost doesn't matter.

We're all into our history, so we get to combine the piloting challenge with as authentic a representation of the eastern front air war as we can.

Some people love sci-fi and technology so they do it in space.

Other people like modern aircraft, or subs or strategy or whatever so they play games that give them that.

But as long as the paintball guns made an enemy aircraft break apart and go down - it could burst into flowers for all it would matter - people probably wouldn't mind so much as long as they get to have the victory.

 

The point being, the skilled bit and the big endorphin payoff we're after is from shooting down the aircraft. After that, killing the guy on the chute seems petty and spiteful, especially as we know we're all people who share a hobby and are just looking for an evening's fun distraction from the real world.

 

This got long-winded, I'm not saying you're wrong but here's the other side of the coin. The brutality and stuff doesn't phase me and I don't anyone is looking to sanitise the experience, but as deep down we all know it's a game we can afford to treat each other with a degree of respect as we know we're all going to see another dawn after our combat missions, it's a game and should be fun.

If some people find chute-killing disrespectful, then it's enough for me not to do it.

Same with shoulder-shooting, same with spamming chat with nonsense or sending abusive messages, or - heaven forbid - cheating.

 

Even flying killers have standards.

My thoughts anyway.

 

 

And you make a good argument, and yes, I may very well be missing the point by a bit.

 

But the moral line in the sand drawn by some who wish to engage in a virtual war that simulates a real war that had no moral bounds whatsoever, does sometimes make for an interesting view into the subtle, if not the absurd.

[Archie]

I remember the old online wars in il2 '46, there were some well known chute killers, and they were not popular. In the end a lot of people just wouldn't fly against them, as it just left a bad taste in the mouth to be chute killed, and showed a total lack of respect for your opponent. Most people didn't do it, a few did, and they just looked like a**holes.

[CanadaOne]

I do enjoy how the line in the sand goes directly from "You killed me with explosive cannon rounds from behind, shredding me in my cockpit into a bloody soaking mess, sending me screaming into the cold cold Earth at 500mph... and that's just fine," to "You shot me in my chute and that makes you an a**hole and I don't want to play with you anymore".

 

As far as I know, you're supposed to destroy/kill/explode/shred/eviscerate/butcher your opponent. That's why the planes have all those guns in them.

 

There seems to be a mountain of cognitive dissonance involved in combat flightsims. It is... interesting.

[Lusekofte]

 

 

he reason I bring this up is that in certain scenarios in online play, at least in the old sim, the opposing teams had a certain number of "pilots" and aircraft,

 

Yeah, still in COD and BOS this is not allowed in the events I joined in, we lost a squadron ( a good one) in such a incident in FNBF when one in my side figured the same as you. And in a way I understand why he shoot , in another point of view I understand the guy in the parachute refused anymore fun. And this is what I mean, it is all about fun, and such a act is not about fun 

[SC_Manu653]

I really like it when people said it's the real war.... for people who have already be involved in combat situation I swear that you doesn't want to re-make it in a game...

I was in infantry and since I have not anymore fun to shoot at somebody...helpless

 

And a lot of people talking that the air war was brutal ( you forget the ground troops ) it was not so brutal.

 

Too many love brutality behind their screen but when you face it a couple of times...you doesn't want to copy it...

[CanadaOne]

I really like it when people said it's the real war.... for people who have already be involved in combat situation I swear that you doesn't want to re-make it in a game...

I was in infantry and since I have not anymore fun to shoot at somebody...helpless

 

And a lot of people talking that the air war was brutal ( you forget the ground troops ) it was not so brutal.

 

Too many love brutality behind their screen but when you face it a couple of times...you doesn't want to copy it...

 

I believe that tens of thousands died in the air forces during WWII. That's brutal, one could say. Certainly hundreds of thousands died as a result of what the air forces did (dropping things). That certainly is brutal.

 

For my part, I have no desire to hurt anyone in real life. Nor in my time flying online have I ever mown a chute. I suppose I just didn't find the idea of mowing the chute interesting. I'd rather just fly or get back into some dogfighting. 

 

My interest in this thread lies in the rationale behind someone wanting to simulate war and that person having a "moral episode" when the war they seek to simulate is simulated in all its glory right back upon them.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Just as a point of reference, the US Army Air Corps sustained more casualties in WW2 than the United States Marine Corps did.

 

The war in the air was different than the ground war, to be sure, but it was no less brutal.

 

Perhaps we should move on to more cheerful subject matter, yes?

 

We are all here because we love WW2 aviation, can that not be a bond, and not send us into constant clashes over the minutiae of game play mechanics?

 

S!

[Archie]

I believe that tens of thousands died in the air forces during WWII. That's brutal, one could say. Certainly hundreds of thousands died as a result of what the air forces did (dropping things). That certainly is brutal.

 

For my part, I have no desire to hurt anyone in real life. Nor in my time flying online have I ever mown a chute. I suppose I just didn't find the idea of mowing the chute interesting. I'd rather just fly or get back into some dogfighting. 

 

My interest in this thread lies in the rationale behind someone wanting to simulate war and that person having a "moral episode" when the war they seek to simulate is simulated in all its glory right back upon them.

But most pilots in the real war seemed to find the idea of shooting someone hanging helpless on a parachute abhorrent. If you want to do it ingame, go ahead, you paid for it after all, but don't be surprised when others do not like it.

[Guest deleted@83466]

 

We are all here because we love WW2 aviation, can that not be a bond, and not send us into constant clashes over the minutiae of game play mechanics?

 

S!

 

 

There will be no fighting in the war room.

[BlitzPig_EL]

 

[HagarTheHorrible]

But most pilots in the real war seemed to find the idea of shooting someone hanging helpless on a parachute abhorrent. If you want to do it ingame, go ahead, you paid for it after all, but don't be surprised when others do not like it.

 

 

Didn't stop them enjoying shooting up other completely defenseless targets thought did it ?  I suspect the notion of not shooting someone in a chute, or the distaste of others from your own side doing it,  had more to do with mutual respect, were it existed,  but above all self preservation rather than any notions of chivalry.  Mutual respect is usually one of the first things to fall by the wayside as the brutality of war is revealed to the protagonists aided and abetted by the different countries propaganda machines.

 

Why anyone, who worries about chute killers, chooses to hang about once their aircraft is toast is beyond me.  Punch out and then re-spawn and while you're waiting think about why you're where you are and how to avoid it the next time rather than tempt fate and then hop up and down in impotent rage.

 

I think chute killing should be perfectly acceptable, it's not like it actually hurts anyone.  Then you can respect and buddy up with the players who don't rather than get all shirty about those who do. It would make for a far more positive, less angsty, experience.

Edited October 30, 2017 by HagarTheHorrible

[Holtzauge]

Since 1949 it is a war crime according to the Geneva convention to shoot at a a pilot that has bailed out. However, there is the distinction that you should be a pilot or crew to be protected so it does of course not protect airborne troops parachuting but shooting a pilot is a war crime. Now you could of course argue that since we simulate pre-1949 this does not apply but I think it does say something about morals involved. Anyway, if someone was to offer the PC game Camp Commander with a career mode where you could begin as a lowly camp guard and then work yourself up by efficiently doing what these type of camps did then I'm sure it would find a market with some apologetics pointing out it's just a game and ones and zeroes but I guess most people would rightly recoil at the idea. I have seen some in another similar thread as well advocating it's OK but in this particular case I feel a bit old fashioned and I can't say really that I feel bad about that. There is enough bad shite going on in the world without us having to simulate it here as well........

[HagarTheHorrible]

On the subject of the OP, simply having persistent points and unlocks, might encourage some. Gain points by mission success, air kills, or simply flying a patrol (invisible waypoints that register completion) death or capture emptys your account and you start again. Skins, aircraft choice or unlocks could all play apart in setting careful considerate pilots apart from the general couldn't care less masses.

 

There could be polls carried out every month or so to discuss the merits and value attached to different unlocks so they can be tweaked to best reflect the direction the community want multiplayer to go or if others are encouraging contary behavior.

[CanadaOne]

But most pilots in the real war seemed to find the idea of shooting someone hanging helpless on a parachute abhorrent. If you want to do it ingame, go ahead, you paid for it after all, but don't be surprised when others do not like it.

 

That's a fair statement.

[CanadaOne]

Didn't stop them enjoying shooting up other completely defenseless targets thought did it ? 

 

Indeed. One could spend a moment or two analyzing the reflections of a pilot who thought it criminal to shoot a chute, but acceptable to protect bombers dropping incendiaries on a civilian population.

 

But, as mentioned, this is a flightsim, and a damn good one(!), and UPS just delivered my new Thrustmaster throttle to go with my trusty FFB2.

 

[Holtzauge]

Indeed. One could spend a moment or two analyzing the reflections of a pilot who thought it criminal to shoot a chute, but acceptable to protect bombers dropping incendiaries on a civilian population.<snip>

 

.......or iconic test pilots who in their memoirs mentions being given orders to shoot up anything that moved in a 50 by 50 sq mile square of land and commenting "Well we better make sure we win the war if we are gonna do this" or something along those lines.

 

Sometimes you are surprised with the choices some people make and even write about in their memoirs. The pilot in question even admits it was done to demoralize the population and rationalizes that the civilians tilling the field may indirectly have been supporting the war effort. Not often you see a war crime written out in black and white like that. Needles to say no one ever dragged him before a court which of course is one of the perks of being on the winning side......

Edited October 30, 2017 by Holtzauge

[Guest deleted@30725]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I started off thinking of the most simple way to implement re-arming into the current system and then I thought about what else you could do, but trying to keep it simple.

 

If ever a system like this went live there would need to be penalties for people who try to ruin the game. 

 

It's one of those ideas that's perfect in lab, but out in the real world might not be so good.

 

I can see plenty of areas to tweak it. Even in it's current form it's quite complex.

 

I had thought about an option to get the ju 52 in on the scenario where by designated airfields for wounded could be designated pre-mission and if a player bailed within a certain distance ju 52 pilots could make troop transport runs to 'main bases' or even to air lift reinforcements or supplies from further airfields

 

Such a scenario is based on what you might find in an rts and whether players would actually want to fly cover for ju 52 pilots and bomber crew is another thing.

 

There is a similar system as stated by (sorry, don't have time to re-scroll) and some servers use win conditions such as taking an enemy airfield.

 

By making crew finite and crew mortal the idea to promote teamwork by making players escort bombers and then fight off attacks is a nice fantasy that can't be expected to play out in a random server.

 

Chute killing is an issue and perhaps a penalty could be implemented and stated in the mission briefing or when joining the server.

 

But that's half the fun, having an idea and the being able to tweak it. Excuse the babbling, it's far too far into the AM

[ZachariasX]

Never base your system on penalties. Reward proper action instead.

 

If you enforce conformity through penalties, you will make „non conformists“ leave the server, as they can‘t play as they like. In sum, you get your playing style by reducing player base. Enforcing a play stlye that is less liked by player than you will always do that. In a world of sparsely populated servers, I don‘t think of it as a good option.

 

Giving positive incentive to conform might well increase the number of conformists as you provide „the better option“.

 

For instance: Successful recon or supply missions would make unlocks available for a certain tome or tournamend. You could Hartman make earn his 109F2.

 

On stats, there’s nothing but the „air kill“ (whatever that includes) that really matters. Period. But getting rewarded with better aircraft is a big incentive. You don‘t have to make your war „Gran Tourismo style“, requiring you to to unwanted missions on order to have fun by flying the missions you want. But there is plenty of candy to give.

[Gambit21]

But most pilots in the real war seemed to find the idea of shooting someone hanging helpless on a parachute abhorrent. If you want to do it ingame, go ahead, you paid for it after all, but don't be surprised when others do not like it.

 

I'm not sure about "most" pilots.

You could be absolutely correct, but here's what I've learned researching and interviewing.

Every pilot made his own decision on the matter, some pilots did it, some did not.

I've asked more than one living pilot about this, some are reluctant to comment, others are more willing to speak of it.

 

A Mustang or a P-47 pilot might choose to shoot a German hanging in his chute based on the fact that tomorrow, that German pilot might kill 10 crew-members on a B-17.

A logical assessment, and it happened more than you might think. A German might kill an American pilot based on similar logic defending their home.

 

In the Pacific such actions were even more common - the air war there being brutal on a whole different level than in Europe.

To the extent that might have been more the rule than the exception during certain periods of the war.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Gambit21

[BraveSirRobin]

There is an easy way to avoid chute killing.  Just exit the mission immediately after you bail.  If there is a long delay after bailing (server setting, I believe), fly on a different server.

 

A Mustang or a P-47 pilot might choose to shoot a German hanging in his chute based on the fact that tomorrow, that German pilot might kill 10 crew-members on a B-17.

A logical assessment, and it happened more than you might think. A German might kill an American pilot based on similar logic defending their home.

 

I read a book by an American P-47 pilot (Robert Johnson, maybe, but I'm not sure) who killed a German pilot trying to bail out because he considered him too skilled to allow to survive.  I'm pretty sure it happened a lot.

[CanadaOne]

In a war that killed 50+ million people, sometimes tens of thousands in hours, and saw every kind of despicable act brought to industrial levels, it strikes me that the idea of "chute chivalry" is perhaps more a modern conceit that a truism of the times.

 

That a Russian pilot would have let a German pilot parachute safely to the ground based solely on the idea that chute killing wasn't civilized, that seems fanciful to say the least.

 

If the idea is to give your virtual life a sense of worth, then your virtual life must have a transient quality. If you have to bail out, get as far away as you can and jump low.

[BraveSirRobin]

They killed each other in their chutes because pilots were a valuable commodity and it was in your self interest to be fighting against noobs instead of vets. Our priorities are a lot different. The people we chute kill don’t actually die. They come back looking for revenge. If you get a reputation as a chute killer, you may have a lot of trouble finding people who will let you live when you have to bail out.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

That a Russian pilot would have let a German pilot parachute safely to the ground based solely on the idea that chute killing wasn't civilized, that seems fanciful to say the least.

 

Pokryshkin didn't shoot at pilots in parachutes, until he watched how a close friend of his was killed in this manner. After that he did it because of revenge, but don't know if he meant in general or only to the pilots that killed his wingman.

Edited November 1, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Dave]

That compared to landing at home base on the wol server, simultaneously dodging rockets fired by newly spawned yaks, players taking off cross county and a rain of burning enemy fighter dropping like meteors after attempting another kamikaze vulching attack.

 

This made me LOL so hard I woke my wife in the next room.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Dave

[ZachariasX]

If your life was with a dime, then you wouldn't be sent out where in the best case keep all your bones somewhat in order, but realistically, you might very well lose everything.

 

Thus, if your multiplayer life is worth something, then you have an unrealistic setting.

 

Besides, how people treat each other mostly depends on how much they share mutual respect for each other. On the western front, they did often treat each other with a lot of respect. The Germans did treat the POWs from all those shot down planes surprsingly well. In the east, it is a different story. People living in the eastern coutries were on average deemed "unwertes Leben". It made the extermination of the enemy the main concern. The Russians returned the favor in their own way. Then again, Stalin treated his own people like shit, so why should he be any different with the enemy, that for a change was not out to defeat him, but to exterminate him and his people.

 

Now you have your poor little individual making up his own mind, pointing a gun at a helples person. But is this commie a person? This fascist? This...?

 

So, you can make up your own mind. I mean, If I would start chute killing, at least I could claim some victories. But that game.. is not my cup of tea. I'd rather be shot down.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Perhaps chute-killing is us virtual pilots way of "tea-bagging" our fallen enemy....

[HagarTheHorrible]

Making virtual lives have value :

 

Using points, to access skins or mods, doesn't have to be onerous, it shouldn't be off putting in any way.  Getting access to mods shouldn't be hard, in fact it should be very easy, all that matters is that you have something to loose and worth hanging on too.  Skins might be treated slightly differently, requiring more points for increasingly unique skins. That way not only do they become more sort after and thus valued more but it also allows opponents to recognize Hotshots and act accordingly (take extra care, call for help, run away) it might also give more satisfaction when you down somebody with a unique/Ace skin. Also Aces have more to lose so need to behave accordingly.

 

It could be per server or per game/round. Everyone starts from zero, then perform just one task, for example patrolling the front line at such and such a height between point "a" and point "b", that gives you a base 5 points.  That unlocks all the mods and maybe a couple of skins, another five points unlocks other skins etc.

 

Base points could also be used, to encourage teamwork and other good behavior, in other ways too.

[Ghost666]

Making virtual lives have value :

 

Using points, to access skins or mods, doesn't have to be onerous, it shouldn't be off putting in any way.  Getting access to mods shouldn't be hard, in fact it should be very easy, all that matters is that you have something to loose and worth hanging on too.  Skins might be treated slightly differently, requiring more points for increasingly unique skins. That way not only do they become more sort after and thus valued more but it also allows opponents to recognize Hotshots and act accordingly (take extra care, call for help, run away) it might also give more satisfaction when you down somebody with a unique/Ace skin. Also Aces have more to lose so need to behave accordingly.

 

It could be per server or per game/round. Everyone starts from zero, then perform just one task, for example patrolling the front line at such and such a height between point "a" and point "b", that gives you a base 5 points.  That unlocks all the mods and maybe a couple of skins, another five points unlocks other skins etc.

 

Base points could also be used, to encourage teamwork and other good behavior, in other ways too.

 

Would this keep noobs from joining the server? Knowing that he would be the one giving all the points to the more proficient pilots. Then to have to respawn, just to go up against

the same pilots that now have more mods. And would it keep even experienced pilots from joining a game in progress, seeing that everyone already has mods?

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

This would be cool if we had a sort of online "career" system in place...

Persistent online front...

 

Maybe too complicated

[HagarTheHorrible]

Would this keep noobs from joining the server? Knowing that he would be the one giving all the points to the more proficient pilots. Then to have to respawn, just to go up against

the same pilots that now have more mods. And would it keep even experienced pilots from joining a game in progress, seeing that everyone already has mods?

 

 

No, absolutely not, although I understand completely where you're coming from.

 

Mods, all mods together, should be accessible at the very first opportunity after starting, but they should have a value even if minimal. Accessing them shouldn't require anything special, simply carrying out a recon, transfer or patrol would suffice, if you don't feel confident at mixing it before mods are enabled.  It just needs to have a value that says "I'm going to make an effort to stay alive or not get captured".  Skins would possibly be the only things that might confer status and if memory serves they don't provide any advantage.

 

Of course the system could be as simple as described above or have all sorts of permeation's included such as having points deducted if a mission goal hasn't been achieved in the required time frame or each combatant having two concurrent point scores running, one for fighters and one for bombers (nobody would want to risk starting their fighter points again because they felt obliged to do some bombing and died a death because no fu*ker provided top cover. Aces with more than 5 kills in a session might have access to a couple of select skins, to set them apart if they wish etc etc.

 

I think if there is an important point it's that kills are not the be all and end all and there is no grinding involved, mission and task completion are more important. 

 

Ultimately though only the first set of points you get are the ones that matter, just enough to care about survival but most importantly not confer an unfair advantage. I do like the idea of skins having to be worked for though, not because of the work per say but because it adds that little bit extra value to a life that might make a player more self aware and cautious the further they get up the ladder.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Fly on Random Expert or Coconut's, the crowd is excellent on both. Wings of Liberty is just one way to enjoy it.

 

I must say, it's really funny to see how people are proposing a system where people need to work for new skins/modifications/aircraft as a silver bullet solution after the user base gave the developers a hard time for years when they added the very same system to the campaign

Edited November 1, 2017 by 216th_Lucas_From_Hell