Bailing out

[fergal69]

Did WWII pilots receive bailing out/parachute training or was their first experience when they had to bail out for real?

 

Found plenty of articles on whether it was ethical or not to shoot a pilot in a parachute, but nothing on the training side.

Edited October 18, 2017 by fergal69

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

At least in the Soviet Union parachute training was an integral part of civilian aero club training pre-war, and I'd be surprised if the military basic aviation programme didn't incorporate it too.

Also, when converting to a new type pilots were instructed on the specific bail out sequence for the aircraft.

[sniperton]

Did WWII pilots receive bailing out/parachute training or was their first experience when they had to bail out for real?

 

In a way it must have been their first real-life experience as actually bailing out from a one-seat airplane could not be trained due to the resulting loss of the aircraft.

[Lensman]

In a way it must have been their first real-life experience as actually bailing out from a one-seat airplane could not be trained due to the resulting loss of the aircraft.

And two-seat trainers?

[Hoots]

Too much risk involved in it. Amongst others, first of losing an airman if it went wrong, second the risk of loose articles like straps in the empty cockpit. I'm sure when the time came the necessity made it possible. I haven't been trained in how to bail out of any gliders but I reckon I would give it a good go if the need arose.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Hoots, actually they did do that often. While an instructor would fly the U-2, the cadet would climb onto the wing and jump, then open their parachute.

[Hoots]

Hoots, actually they did do that often. While an instructor would fly the U-2, the cadet would climb onto the wing and jump, then open their parachute.

Learn something new every day

[sniperton]

My point is that bailing out from a damaged and sometimes even uncontrollable single-seater with closed canopy is something which couldn't be properly trained for. One could be instructed how to do it, one could even try to do it with other planes, but the full procedure was probably first performed when it really had to be done, i.e. in emergency, when danger was imminent and loss of the aircraft was inevitable in any case.

BTW, what about crash-landig vs bailing out? I have the impression that crash-landing or ditching was considered less risky and was generally preferred by pilots as long as the plane remained controllable.

Edited October 18, 2017 by sniperton

[56RAF_Roblex]

There is an unwritten rule amongst pilots that you *never* jump from a serviceable aircraft :-)

[Lensman]

There is an unwritten rule amongst pilots that you *never* jump from a serviceable aircraft :-)

Rudolf Hess got so many things wrong!

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

On that you are correct, sniperton. No amount of training can get you 100% prepared for the situations you face in air combat, but all the training you can get will still come useful.

 

About the ditching/bailing out thing, overall you are right - if the pilot could control the aircraft and staying with it did not mean ending up on a zone hotter than the one they are over, most would try to take the aircraft as far as they could go. It is still a phenomenon today, and one that has cost more than a few lives over the years. Many times pilots (even experienced ones) try to fix the situation and see if they can save the aircraft, then end up in situations already beyond the ejection seat's envelope.

[Hoots]

Beyond the obvious control loss scenario I often wonder what would make me jump, chatting to others there seems to be as many views as people my concern is if the airframe is damaged in such a away that normal flight doesn't get affected but becomes apparent in the circuit when we speed up, deploy air brakes etc. By then it's too late. What it must have been like for the poor sods who got damaged in combat is unimaginable.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I have seen British footage of chute training. It consisted of a mock up cockpit with a crash mat on the floor. They would pull the canopy back and kind roll out and drop to their back with their legs in the air or something similar).

 

There is also some war time footage of an experiment that was performed with a full size aircraft in a wind tunnel. The aim was to research how practical it was to bail at high speed. The research led to the development of the ejector seat as it was found it was almost physically impossible to bail at jet like speeds. I doubt even though it could have been a good training tool it was ever widely used.

 

Paratroopers used a tower and wire system to simulate a jump but im not sure if pilots used them.

 

Ps I saw the footage in documentaries over the years so I don't really know the reference. Sorry

Edited October 18, 2017 by AeroAce

[AndyJWest]

..

BTW, what about crash-landig vs bailing out? I have the impression that crash-landing or ditching was considered less risky and was generally preferred by pilots as long as the plane remained controllable.

A forced landing - i.e. a controlled descent onto a solid surface other than a runway - is relatively safe if you can find a decent flat spot without obstructions. Ditching - coming down on water - was very risky in most WW2 fighter aircraft, and a last resort if you were too low to bail out. Low wings with radiators etc projecting from the bottom were liable to pull the nose under violently as soon as you touched the surface, and the aircraft would usually sink within a few seconds even if you put it down successfully.

Edited October 18, 2017 by AndyJWest

[Hoots]

The advice given is generally "hit the softest thing possible at the slowest speed possible"

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Remembering from Heinz Migeod's interview (Stuka pilot),

 

Parachute jump wasn't part of the training because command realized that once pilot knew it could be done safely (or at least once they made their first jump successfully), they tended to bail out much more readily, writing off a potentially serviceable aircraft. They were told the how to, but weren't allowed to put it in practice. But he also said that some pilots went out in a two seat trainer, officially for legitimate training, and that with complicity of the second pilot on board, they removed their harness for whatever reason, and that "unfortunately" the pilot at that precise moment made an unexpected harsh maneuver that made them "accidentally" fall off the airplane...

[Wulf]

As far as I'm aware, the RAF (I have no idea about other WW 2 air forces) didn't incorporate actual jumping, from an aircraft, as part of air crew training.  As someone else pointed out, the risks were probably considered to outweighed the benefits. Remembering that we aren't talking about static line jumps in the case of airmen departing an aircraft but actual rip cord jumps - a much more potentially hazardous operation.  

[ZachariasX]

Practising rip chord jumps for PPL pilots... that would be something! You‘re not even carrying a chute these days anymore.

 

And for gliders... they never told me more than „get out, pull the handle AND KEEP IT! it is expensive!“

 

Looking through the crash reoprts, whoever could get out also figured out how to open the chute. No info about them keeping the handle though...