Peshka takeoff distances

[ZachariasX]

As I get mor into flying the multi engine planes (apart from the Ju52), I wanted to ask, is there ANY airport featuring a runway long enaough for the Pe-2 to fly it self off the ground?

 

Even when given 50% fuel and just the ammo for the guns, when I set flaps 20%, throttle 100%, RPM 100%, mixture 100%, rads 100%, I manage to get about 190 km/h at the end of the runway. With this speed I still have to pull her off the ground like a donkey. Is that the way? Not complaining here, I'm asking.

 

When loaded, it often becomes a lottery whether you can pull her off the ground at the end of the runway at all. I put her nose down horizontal above 100 km/h to ease accelleration.

 

[curiousGamblerr]

Yes, I don't have any problems getting the Pe2 off the ground. You've already got two key elements- not taking full fuel and pushing the nose down asap to accelerate. I'd suggest trying without flaps? I rarely use them at all for pe2 takeoff, and in any case 20% is probably too much.

 

Two other things I can suggest are holding down the brakes and powering up before releasing brakes and starting your roll, and also if you run out of runway but have clearance, don't be afraid to drive over a few meters of grass rather than pulling up too early. But that shouldn't be necessary often.

 

Good luck!

[Finkeren]

Which version of the Pe-2? It sounds like you aren't getting the Peshka to develop enough power.

 

If you are flying the Series 35 remember that you can't use an axis to set rpm.

[Inkophile]

As curiousGambler said the key to a lot of speed in the Peshka is to raise its tail as soon as you can. This is done at about the 100 km/h mark, and with the artificial horizon you can easily keep your plane level. The lowered wing drag and tail wheel friction will let you accelerate significantly faster. With 50-60% fuel and full bomb load you should be able to gently let it off the ground completely without flap use unless you are at an extraordinarily short runway.

[56RAF_Roblex]

 I only have the PE2-35 and have never had any problems taking off though it can be very sluggish climbing away after you raise the wheels.   As Finkeren asked,  have you increased the prop pitch to 100% because it does not work with the axis you might be using for other aircraft, it needs a separate pair of keys set up (the pairing for High Pitch & Low Pitch IIRC)?  Even then it takes a long time (15 seconds?) to get the pitch up to 100%.    I rarely use flaps and often leave the fuel at 100% through sheer forgetfulness 

[ShamrockOneFive]

The prop pitch could be the issue. I made that mistake early on and only later realized that on the early series you have to spend a considerable amount of time to get it setup for proper takeoff and climb.

[ZachariasX]

Thnx for the inputs guys! So far I mainly use the 87 variant.

 

I set RPM to 100% and give it a minute to be sure both props are fully set to fine. Trim neutral. Still feels like a B-24 to take off the ground. I mean, once airborne it is a great aircraft. But for ground operations I feel like missing 500 meters of runway.

 

I‘ll keep on practising...

[56RAF_Roblex]

Lol. After telling you to check you had the prop pitch up to 100% I then forgot to do it myself and I ran out of runway -  Doh!   

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

You could also try a 3-point take-off. I know there's a b-17 training video explaining it's advantage somewhere on YouTube... also, I think I read somewhere on these forums that you should use 95% pitch with this aircraft on takeoff...

 

I could be way wrong, I'm on night shift and delusional

 

 

Here this should be it, watch from 12:45

The pilot in training ask's the trainer "why the three-point take-off, wouldnt the tail up have been better?"

Edited October 16, 2017 by spartan85

[AndyJWest]

You could also try a 3-point take-off. I know there's a b-17 training video explaining it's advantage somewhere on YouTube... also, I think I read somewhere on these forums that you should use 95% pitch with this aircraft on takeoff...

 

I could be way wrong, I'm on night shift and delusional

I doubt that you'll get the Peshka to take off in a three-point attitude: it sits at a much higher angle than the B-17, and the angle of attack must be close to stall.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

The Pe is quite easy to take off in just don't use flaps. PE flaps are like airbreaks, I would use no more than 15% even for landing.

[Royal_Flight]

Another thing to note is fuel levels - there is never any need for 50% as in the OP. I routinely take 20% in a Peshka and the only time I've ever run out was when a friendly 109 took exception to where my flight path was taking me and poked a few holes in my tanks.

 

I remember seeing a graphic somewhere from ChuckOwl's awesome guides to BoS aircraft operation, where he calculated that with a full load of fuel you could fly diagonally across the entire map twice and still have enough fuel left that you could go a third of the way back again.

[blitze]

Had the same issue with the 35 until I learned where the key mappings for Prop Pitch were.  It also takes quite a while to set to 100 for Props.  Once learned, she takes off easy including under load.  Before that I was mainly flying the 87 cause I could adjust props mapped to rotary on my throttle like most other planes.

 

Usually now I will set radiators, start engines, wait for them to spin up, then sit there and adjust prop.  Once at 100 I will then proceed to taxi.  It's a process on the 35 but once off the ground, you can then bring Prop pitch back to 85% - or as needed for RPM at manifold pressure and leave them till your final approach for landing.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

[ZachariasX]

It also takes quite a while to set to 100 for Props.

 

That is also "an issue" (not really), you have to set the prop manual in the 35, but as you "set the RPM" manual mode (and not the prop by setting the prop) the thing works opositte to the manual prop settinng in, say, the Henschel.

 

In the Henschel, to take off you have to set the prop pitch to manual, and what you have to do is "set the prop" to 0%, meaning full fine setting.

 

In the Peshka 35, you also set the prop manual, but as there it is labeled "RPM" (which it does in indirect manner by putting higher torque on the shaft by setting the prop to coarse), the 100% setting is just the other way around (least torque, highest RPM, 100%), meaning fine prop. 0% translating into highest torque, resulting lowest RPM, "0% setting".

 

It is meant well, but it would be maybe useful having a bit more consistency in making use of the switches. Inverting their function because they have a different label is weird. It helps someone operating the plane who doesn't understand what he is doing, but still...

 

 

Anyway, it is as it is and without flaps I'm better with the Peshka. So, thaks again for all your inputs. Much appreciated.

vid

Pitch trim, good one!

[Brano]

Some basic instructions from Pe-2 manual.

 

Parking angle of the aircraft is 12°. It is the same as maximum angle of attack, in all flight modes.

When it is exceeded to 14°, the flow separation zone reaches 1/3 of the total wing area. At an angle of attack 16° it reaches 2/3 of the total wing area, which leads to loss of controllability.

The technique of piloting is heavily affected by the "rough" alteration of a long-range fighter escort (by original project) into a dive bomber.

 

Takeoff:

- Release the flaps by 15-20°

- Smoothly increase the power of the engines, without holding the brakes.

- Run up to 50m at 3 points, followed by a smooth push of control stick from yourself, raise the "tail"

- Keep the plane in straight line using rudder pedals,doing small/short adjustments. It is forbidden to use brakes and changing the power of one engine to parry the turning. 

- After take-off,keep the aircraft at altitude of 20-50m and let it accelerate to 240km/h.

 

Additional info:

Minimum take-off speed with a normal weight is 170 km/h

Taking-off without flaps leads to aircraft shaking at speeds up to 175-190 km/h. If speed decreases to 165-175km/h ,aircraft stalls.

Taking-off with flaps at 15-20° with speed of 150-165 km/h leads to aircraft shaking. If speed decreases to 140-150km/h, aircraft stalls.

Taking-off with flaps at 20° reduces the take-off distance by 25%.

 

Climb:

- The minimum speed to start climbing is 240 km/h.

- The minimum speed of climbing is 270 km/h.

- after reaching the speed of 270 km/h, raise the flaps at height of not less than 100 m. Short-term increase in climb speed up to 290-300 km/h will occur. Raise the flaps with short taps. Do not allow aircraft to sink more than 10-15m.

- Perform the 1st turn at altitude of 150-200m with bank in the turn of 15-20° max.

 

Special features:

- with a normal take-off weight, the aircraft has a 24% alignment of the MAC (Mean Aerodynamic Chord) and is longitudinally stable.

- with a maximum take-off weight (full refueling + 6x100 kg), the aircraft has a centering of 28.2% of the MAC, and is not longitudinally stable.

- when landing gear is up, positive pitching moment appears.

- It is necessary to check engine overheating. When max temperatures are reached,decrease the RPM to 2300 and put the plane into horizontal flight at speed of 310km/h.

- Do not bank more then 20° when turning at hight less then 500m.

- Turning is done at speed of 330km/h.

- When turning,do not skid the plane. The inner wing has a tendency to fall with following spin.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Brano

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

Just gonna borrow this thread to ask that how the hell are you supposed to see the fuselage fuel gauge in series 35 Peshka? Its right under those 2 yellow wing tank gauges.

 

[Retnek]

Just gonna borrow this thread to ask that how the hell are you supposed to see the fuselage fuel gauge in series 35 Peshka? Its right under those 2 yellow wing tank gauges.

 

Hihi, this is an easy one: just jump into the gunners seat, turn around your head until it hurts and then have a sharp look-out or magnify if you're not an eagle.

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

Hihi, this is an easy one: just jump into the gunners seat, turn around your head until it hurts and then have a sharp look-out or magnify if you're not an eagle.

 

Yeah figured it out soon after sending the message but thanks anyway

[ZachariasX]

Hihi, this is an easy one: just jump into the gunners seat, turn around your head until it hurts and then have a sharp look-out or magnify if you're not an eagle.

In the real Peshka, you could probably smell the amount of fuel remaining in the tanks.

[=WH=PangolinWranglin]

Interestingly the thing could be a nightmare to takeoff in real life. I've read that in female night flight squadrons, with heavily loaded Pe2s, the gunner would occasionally reach up to help the pilot pull the plane into the air because the elevator on the plane is so damn big and the controls could be very heavy. It's an interesting thing that we don't really feel with our electronic inputs.

 

Quoting wikipedia (which is quoting an interview) "While the Pe-2's flying characteristics were generally favorable once it was airborne, it took a good amount of force to pull the elevators up to rotate the plane for takeoff. Russian night bombing missions often flew with female pilots and some of the women were not strong enough to get the airplane airborne by themselves. When such a situation occurred, the procedure was to have the navigator get behind the pilot's seat and wrap her arms around the control wheel and help the pilot pull the wheel back."

How romantic. It's like that scene in the movie Ghost

Edited October 18, 2017 by =VOE=PangolinWranglin

[AndyJWest]

Just gonna borrow this thread to ask that how the hell are you supposed to see the fuselage fuel gauge in series 35 Peshka? Its right under those 2 yellow wing tank gauges.

I've set one of the number pad snap views to show it: you need to move the viewpoint back, right and down as far as it will go.