Developer Diary, Part 175 - Discussion

[Raptorattacker]

Does this mean the hardware gap is about to grow again?

 

Some of us are already at a disadvantage when it comes to resolution and monitor size. It seems like this is going to extend the advantage some have. Or will this not be the case?

Come on. You can hardy bring everyone's individual hardware into the equation, can you?. What people have and what other people have is hardly anything to do with the Devs, is it? I only have one decent eye but I wouldn't dream of saying that someone with two eyes should shut one of them when I play against them. The Devs can hardly take into account everybody's individual hardware setup, they can only state a 'minimum requirement' and that is what they do.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Come on. You can hardy bring everyone's individual hardware into the equation, can you?. What people have and what other people have is hardly anything to do with the Devs, is it? I only have one decent eye but I wouldn't dream of saying that someone with two eyes should shut one of them when I play against them. The Devs can hardly take into account everybody's individual hardware setup, they can only state a 'minimum requirement' and that is what they do.

 

I've always scoffed at the whole "I have an old computer on its last leg and haven't the wages or savings to replace it so the product should be built around my hardware limitations" thing. BOX already runs phenomenally on hardware that's significantly dated... 

 

No, the product should be designed with recent and future hardware in mind... Not holding back the latest and greatest improvements in order to pander to the RX480/780ti guys or that guy running an old ATI chip with terrible single core performance or some dude with a legacy Pentium D.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Space_Ghost

[actionhank1786]

I've always scoffed at the whole "I have an old computer on its last leg and haven't the wages or savings to replace it so the product should be built around my hardware limitations" thing. BOX already runs phenomenally on hardware that's significantly dated... 

 

No, the product should be designed with recent and future hardware in mind... Not holding back the latest and greatest improvements in order to pander to the RX480/780ti guys or that guy running an old ATI chip with terrible single core performance or some dude with a legacy Pentium D.

 

Yeah, sometimes you've got to upgrade.

 

That said, my computer is pretty damn old, and BoX still runs and looks pretty great on it. 

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Chill grognards. I'm not asking the devs to restrict development. I'm just asking a question so I know what to expect.

 

So yes.

Edited October 19, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr

[DD_Arthur]

Some of us are already at a disadvantage when it comes to resolution and monitor size. It seems like this is going to extend the advantage some have. Or will this not be the case?

 

I'm one of those guys sitting in front of a pile of old sh#te PC at 1920 x 1080.  I don't see why I'm at any sort of disadvantage to anyone.  I see contacts just the same way as anyone else.

 

 I agree with Space-Ghost,  the Team should aim to make the most of up-to-date hardware  but I'm constantly pleased and surprised that my ancient i7/gtx770 combo runs this game so well.

[Raptorattacker]

Isn't 1920 x 1080 the FUTURE??? Am I missing something?????? 

@hrafnkolbrandr

Fair play, it's all in good humour!

Edited October 19, 2017 by Raptorattacker

[FuriousMeow]

Chill grognards. I'm not asking the devs to restrict development. I'm just asking a question so I know what to expect.

 

So yes.

 

You didn't read the update then.

 

"Ofcourse, one of the main objectives was to not allow significantly FPS drop appear due to this new feature, and we succeed in this."

Edited October 19, 2017 by FuriousMeow

[Boomerang]

"Surprises"  , (among the countless ones we have had to date)

Thank you Team, ( from the heart).  

[Yogiflight]

 

 

Isn't 1920 x 1080 the FUTURE??? Am I missing something??????

More likely the present, next future might be 4k, so 4096 x 2160.

[Livai]

 

Isn't 1920 x 1080 the FUTURE??? Am I missing something?????? [ ]

More likely the present, next future might be 4k, so 4096 x 2160.

 

 

Everything beyond 1920x1080 is for Graphic designer and for Mulit-tasking people who have many programs open on the Desktop. I prefer more Polygone than higher resolution in a Game. More Polygone =  cause a lot more realistic Game Models close to real life than increasing the Resolution. And sharpness?, are you a Graphic or CAD designer.............. , the bigger the gab between you and the monitor results into better sharpness, forget the mouse monitor set-ups go for 65-inch sit back and enjoy the show. And how it looks with Game-Texture does the Resolution matter here? A single 4k Texture on a single object never ever reach the sharpness as many 4k Texture on the same object, point.

[Raptorattacker]

More likely the present, next future might be 4k, so 4096 x 2160.

I know, I was joking. I have worked in Graphics for many years (for better AND worse!!). Thing is, the physical space required for large monitors governs the simple fact that I have worked with 1920x1080 for some time. To me, for the time being, it is perfectly adequate both for gaming and for design. Of course, given the space and finance, I would LOVE a more immersive experience but for now I am a happy camper! 

[Raptorattacker]

 

Everything beyond 1920x1080 is for Graphic designer and for Mulit-tasking people who have many programs open on the Desktop. I prefer more Polygone than higher resolution in a Game. More Polygone =  cause a lot more realistic Game Models close to real life than increasing the Resolution. And sharpness?, are you a Graphic or CAD designer.............. , the bigger the gab between you and the monitor results into better sharpness, forget the mouse monitor set-ups go for 65-inch sit back and enjoy the show. And how it looks with Game-Texture does the Resolution matter here? A single 4k Texture on a single object never ever reach the sharpness as many 4k Texture on the same object, point.

Yep, polygons is definitely a more satisfying experience for sure. I totally agree. Due to only having one eye though, distance is kind of irrelevant to me personally so my set up is totally designed to be optimal to me, the user. Sharp, correct in colour profile and a great place to get away from the real world when I so desire (beautiful as the real world can be). I came to this game after watching loads of footage over many years and I have to say, it has NOT disappointed. It ticks every box for me. As long as I'm happy then my Wife is happy and as long as my Wife is happy then the world is lovely!! 

[Jade_Monkey]

Livai, I have to disagree with everything but the last part about the multiple textures.

 

Everything beyond 1920x1080 is for Graphic designer and for Mulit-tasking people who have many programs open on the Desktop.

It's not 2010 anymore. Even mid range smartphones have that resolution. It's ok if that is your preference but it's definitely not some sort of golden rule.

 

I prefer more Polygone than higher resolution in a Game. More Polygone = cause a lot more realistic Game Models close to real life than increasing the Resolution. And sharpness?, are you a Graphic or CAD designer.............. , the bigger the gab between you and the monitor results into better sharpness, forget the mouse monitor set-ups go for 65-inch sit back and enjoy the show.

Poligons and resolution are not mutually exclusive unless you assume the GPU is low-mid tier.

Also having more poligons but keeping a "low" resolution does not make the game any more realistic. What's the point of having more poligons if you can't see them on a low res monitor?

 

Finally, sitting further away from the screen doesn't increase sharpness, it blurs the pixels which is completely different.

 

1080p on a 65" tv will look much worse than on a 27" monitor. You are trading size for pixel density. It might feel more immersive but it won't look better.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Jade_Monkey

[Livai]

I have to disagree with everything but the last part about the multiple textures.

Did ever try out what happen and have you ever seen the difference between a single and many textures on the same single object?. If create a model for example a human model with seperated area for head, body, legs, arms textures. If you create now Diffuse,Specular,Colormask 4k texture for head, body, arms and legs looks 1000x times better than a single 4k texture for the whole human model, point!

 

Poligons and resolution are not mutually exclusive unless you assume the GPU is low-mid tier.

Also having more poligons but keeping a "low" resolution does not make the game any more realistic. What's the point of having more poligons if you can't see them on a low res monitor?

IL-2 CloD best example has more Polygone, 2048x2048 Texture and mutiply textue for the same object. Can I see the difference on a low-res monitor between this game? Yes, very clear. Can I see the difference on a high-res monitor between this game? Yes, very clear. 

 

Finally, sitting further away from the screen doesn't increase sharpness, it blurs the pixels which is completely different.

Are you sure? No matter what resolution you choose if you touch the monitor,tv or smartphone with your nose, tell me how sharp is that resolution? I can tell you blurry no matter what resolution you steward me.

 

1080p on a 65" tv will look much worse than on a 27" monitor. You are trading size for pixel density. It might feel more immersive but it won't look better.

1080p on a 65" tv sitting further away great to watch movie, play games, watch photo albums everything looks great and sharp but try out Desktop usage on Halloween. 2160p on a 65" tv sitting further away with the same distance as with the 1080p on a 65" tv you notice only in games everything looks much smaller and how low the FPS are now and how small the Desktop looks from this distance, point

 

 

[Jade_Monkey]

Regarding the first point you quoted, i was agreeing with you.

 

The rest, let's agree to disagree.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

For sure higher the distance more human eye is loosing details (for same picture diameter) , test shown that from some distance ppl can't tell if image is presented in SD or HD standard.

Btw What for is higher poligon count if you don't have enough space to show it. Texturing is simplification, both high res plus high poligon count make complicated object look good. Performance vs believable words. What's next real-time ray traced, voxels or hybrids...

Edited October 20, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[Raptorattacker]

WOW! It's getting real technical... Horses for courses I say. If the cake tastes good then don't change the recipe. Mine tastes great!!

[EAF_Starfire]

Yeah, sometimes you've got to upgrade.

 

That said, my computer is pretty damn old, and BoX still runs and looks pretty great on it.

Is true that the developers should not take their customers hardware into consideration, but by improving multiCore/MultiThread support in the game, FMB and the dserver, it would go a long in keeping current hardware.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I still got my old and brave i7 2660k and no OC.

My only upgrade in all those years was a 1070 vga.

 

I believe new cpu's are a scam.

Edited October 24, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[sport02]

it would be great to could chose the level of the air haze

Edited October 31, 2017 by sport02

[Gambit21]

I still got my old and brave i7 2660k and no OC.

My only upgrade in all those years was a 1070 vga.

 

I believe new cpu's are a scam.

 

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-2600-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X/620vs3915

 

Try doing a 3D render with that thing vs a Ryzen 1700.

Now BoS is that CPU intensive compared to other tasks, but to say that cpu upgrades are a scam across the board is silly beyond words.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

CPU upgrade for this game is a total waste of money. I am the living proof. If you want to use it to do something else, that's your problem. You don't impress me when you do not consider the context of my post on this specific game forum.

[Gambit21]

CPU upgrade for this game is a total waste of money.

A completely different statement.

[Gambit21]

...and by the way I could easily construct a demo mission that would bring your FPS to a stutter on your CPU.

[15/JG52_SPW]

Speaking as an il2 pilot that flies IL2 46 since it came out long long ago, a buyer of Clod, RoF and BOS series :

 

Well for me the biggest issue still remains . The limited spotting range for enemies !

 

As a fighter pilot some of your most important skills is your situational awareness and your instinct with timing. Stick pulling may be a more important ability for some other customers.....

 

HOW you can use some planes properly without a decent spotting range ?

 

It all ends on diving into unknown waters instead of a well calculated attack , making the chaserers stall just before they open fire, like it was in IL2 46.

 

ATM you can not see what is coming behind this one bogey when you decide to give up your one and only advantage to anyone that may come in higher and seconds later into visual range than this bogey!

 

The visual range is so small that the guy comes into battle within few seconds, when you already started dive and your naked.

 

You will get catched and some planes are magically immune to high airspeed in their steering reaction so in some planes you must get SLOWER for evasive actions ....

 

The limited visual spotting range makes all the super simulation marketing thingy obsolete and degrades the game to blinker fights !! And fights on a postmarket are cool for some hotshots but aircombat starts way beyond this stage.

 

Some WW2 pilots could spot enemies 5 mins before any other in their formation! In IL2 you have communism in spotting but not in planeabilities.

 

I support this game by owning bos,bom and kuban Premiums but if i knew this limitation before....well it was my fault and i dont give up hope that one day this simulationbreaker will get eliminated !

 

Ok, landscape gets rendered now far away and the most important things like planes, ships,targets not ?

 

I appreciate your efforts a lot but in IL2 46 we could find our way to camp and back home also in foggy rain full real. Just count the rivers

 

Like it is now, the game lacks an additional dimension that seperates sim from game. Stickpulling i can learn my kids pretty fast.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Spotting for people playing with no icons is definitely still an issue. I struggle with it a bit myself though I don't seem to have as many issues as others. In part this is going to be a hardware thing too... but I do hope the devs can at least take a crack at it and see if they can update visibility for some things using some sort of method. I know people hate having dots for planes after a certain range but I was never really opposed to that idea personally and thought it might be a good way to solve some issues with spotting.

 

The 1CGS guys are clever. They will figure stuff out and fix problems and I'm sure they will tackle stuff when they can. I have full confidence that they are tackling issues and upgrading features as needed - we all see things at an individual level of what our pet peeves are but they have to think about the whole product.

[FuriousMeow]

Wait until the new extended terrain view distance comes out. I have no issue spotting currently, it gets a bit difficult though when they get into the "horizon haze" and that is about to be virtually removed with the extended terrain view distance.

Edited February 10, 2018 by FuriousMeow

[Royal_Flight]

Wait until the new extended terrain view distance comes out. I have no issue spotting currently, it gets a bit difficult though when they get into the "horizon haze" and that is about to be virtually removed with the extended terrain view distance.

My only concern is that if the terrain draw distance is x4 greater than before, then it might be really obvious to have aircraft, buildings and ground objects popping in at distances well within visibility range.

[Raptorattacker]

Spotting for people playing with no icons is definitely still an issue. I struggle with it a bit myself though I don't seem to have as many issues as others. In part this is going to be a hardware thing too... but I do hope the devs can at least take a crack at it and see if they can update visibility for some things using some sort of method. I know people hate having dots for planes after a certain range but I was never really opposed to that idea personally and thought it might be a good way to solve some issues with spotting.

 

The 1CGS guys are clever. They will figure stuff out and fix problems and I'm sure they will tackle stuff when they can. I have full confidence that they are tackling issues and upgrading features as needed - we all see things at an individual level of what our pet peeves are but they have to think about the whole product.

Yeah, I for one have massive difficulty 'spotting' without markers as I have only one good eye so I will willingly knock off the markers if the graphics engine makes it a do - able thing, for sure. It makes multiplayer a much more appealing prospect for me to have a go at as I haven't really gone down that road yet.

 

@15/JG52_SPW

We all support the game in our own ways and I for one am really impressed by the work that the devs put in to enhance our experience(s). Obviously there are people who are better than others, as is the way in all walks of life and the game (I feel) adequately caters for everyone's needs as far as is reasonably practical. 'Horses for Courses' as they say? Please don't take this as a challenge to your comment(s), it is merely a reply.