When we get the coop mode

[DD_Arthur]

In December we'll be getting a coop mode added to the game.  If you're an old IL2 hand you'll know that nirvana is approaching or if you're merely sick of the squalor that is dogfight server chat then it's good news too.

 

   I've been searching for this thread for weeks now and finally found it!       If you are interested in flying, creating or hosting coops check this out;

 

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/34682-rof-single-player-coop-converter-pwcg-compatible/

 

  I've posted it here so it gets the attention it deserves and also so I don't loose it again.

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ITAF_Rani]

We need it...really !!

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

You can generate coop mission straight from ROF PWCG ,there is option in PWCG for this. But then you need to load that mission in editor and add planes for buddies. There is also possibility to adding them to PWCG board and track their achievements.

[Jade_Monkey]

How did coop work in other sims? Just a server list like regular MP? Is it also hosted with Dserver?

[von_Tom]

You can already run co-ops.  Many squads do it.

 

If you're talking a Hyperlobby system that'd be a great thing to have and even better if you had a comms system that dumped you into an available channel.

 

von Tom

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

How did coop work in other sims? Just a server list like regular MP? Is it also hosted with Dserver?

In Rof you could do it both ways, from client was more convenient as you can play and host coop missions at the same machine and game instance. Edited October 12, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[Mac_Messer]

How did coop work in other sims? Just a server list like regular MP? Is it also hosted with Dserver?

In IL2 1946 most popular was through HyperLobby client. Up to 8 rooms with different number of slots. Host jumps into slot #1 and others with rest of the slots. When slots filled the host trigerred game start though client that fired up Il2.exe and a minute later all players that filled a certain room ended up in a coop game toghether. Player was greeted by map room, then aircraft slot selection room. You customise your plane, click Fly and you`re set.

 

All players spawned on the map at the same exact moment. Was possible for different players to be spawned as parked or already airborne.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Mac_Messer

[Gambit21]

If you're talking a Hyperlobby system...

Yes - that's what just about everyone means when we say "CoOp"

 

We currently don't have co-ops in the true sense of the word. I got tired of going rounds about this some time ago.

[No601_Swallow]

Yes - that's what just about everyone means when we say "CoOp"

 

We currently don't have co-ops in the true sense of the word. I got tired of going rounds about this some time ago.

 

Of course, it's all about definitions. For me, coop is about a human "team" against AI opponents, for historical reconstructions or some sort of "narrative" designed by the mission builder. This we already have, and the flexibility of allowing players to enter the "coop" environment of the mission whenever they themselves are ready [individually] is a great step forward.

 

The power of having absolutely everything in the mission "triggered" by something else in the mission renders the coordinated start of old-style coops moot (unnecessary). In general, missions can be so much more intricate with the system we have now, compared to '46 or even the script-tastic CloD.

 

However, choice is always a good thing, and I'm really looking forward to having an HL or RoF-style lobby system.

 

Belt and braces! More is better!

Edited October 12, 2017 by No601_Swallow

[DD_Arthur]

Of course, it's all about definitions. For me, coop is about a human "team" against AI opponents,

 

Against the AI?  You're kidding

 

We currently don't have co-ops in the true sense of the word. I got tired of going rounds about this some time ago.

 

 Gambit understands

[No601_Swallow]

Against the AI?  You're kidding

 

Mission builders making  coops (well, I do) carefully plan encounters. I decide where and when players meet the AI, how many they meet, what the distractions are, when "surprise" reinforcements are added to the fight, etc. It's completely flexible. The ME even allows you to trigger a change in the AI level of AI aircraft  - given whatever criteria you want (number of player aircraft downed, number of AI aircraft downed, a certain 'x'  reaching a certain 'y', etc....) Mission editors can, to a large extent, shape the odds of any encounter. The "art" is in making it exciting and challenging without it being just stupidlly impossible! 

 

Even though the limitations of the AI system of BoX are well-known, it's not hard of a mission builder to offer up a seriously intense, thrilling and challenging experience for players. Hell, you can even decide at what point in a fight the AI (down to individual aircraft) will (more or less!) turn tail and head back to base. 

 

As I say, the mission editor gives mission builders all the tools they need to tell a story or to recreate a historical mission/experience/etc...

 

[That's not to say the AI system is great. Obviously it's not, and I hope it continues to improve, but mission builders can usually disguise the shortcomings. Go on! Join a squadron and fly an organised coop!] 

Edited October 12, 2017 by No601_Swallow

[No601_Swallow]

Against the AI?  You're kidding

 

 

[brooding...]

 

Like I said in my first post, it's all about definitions. I understand coop to be an organised "group" of players having a specific objective (defined by the mission builder) facing AI opposition.

 

I can of course envisage designing MP "missions" in which teams of players face off against each other, but with specific objectives (again, specified by the mission builder)..

 

Dunno. player vs. player seems to devolve into DF. Probably. Indeed, most of the popular MP servers host missions where each side has specific targets, etc, and yet we tend to think of them as DF servers.

 

Even so, my own squadron [on non-ops nights] tends to meet on comms, decide which server to enter, join the server all together and then fulfil some sort of "mission within the server. Sometimes one or two of us will spawn into bombers, while the others take fighters as escorts, etc. Sometimes, we'll - as a group - just enter a server in order to mess about - try and shoot down others while not succeeding in avoiding deatgh ourselves, etc...

 

Point is, I suppose, that "coops" can offer so much more than just DF servers with objectives! And they do - even with the tools we already have!¬

Edited October 13, 2017 by No601_Swallow

[DD_Arthur]

@Swallow m8; I am in absolutely no doubt you are a sh#t hot mission builder and while the inclusion of AI can certainly enhance a given scenerio there is simply no substitute for human opposition.

 

You have flown a decent IL2 1946 type coop with all the slots filled by breathers?  The RoF coop mode - which I would imagine we'll be getting - is very similar.  If they mange to fit it out with a hyperlobby type interface then so much the better.

 

The DD_ stands for DangerDogz.  We run a CLoD server but we're a coop squad at heart.

 

 http://dangerdogz.com/forums/

 

Coops are at the heart of squad flying.  If this thing works out like I hope it will I would imagine we'll be inviting your mob over for a spot of biffing in the not too distant future.

[Mac_Messer]

 

Dunno. player vs. player seems to devolve into DF. Probably. Indeed, most of the popular MP servers host missions where each side has specific targets, etc, and yet we tend to think of them as DF servers.

Organised squad coops in a dynamic war environment is a different breed altoghether. If the war is setup in a way that strategic targets matter the most, the squads, assuming they`re competitive bunch of cooperating people, will pull all sorts of tactical maneuvers that is nothing like a classic dogfight.

 

If given the right victory terms, people can be very inventive. In one online campaign I took part in, the VVS squads applied ramming to most of the german bombers with success. In other campaign destroying the transport aircraft / ground convoys was the way to win. And in another all it took to win a map was rendering a certain enemy airfield out of action. Depending on your side`s performance nothing is certain. Maybe you will have the newest planes with full tanks or maybe you will be left with Romanian Emils having to fly 110km to your target without hope of returning because of lack of fuel.

 

When people tell me that coops are just another DF server it is obvious they did not take part in organised squad vs squad flying w/ objectives.

[von_Tom]

 

Swallow has been there and done that many many times. Both types of co-ops can be amazing or mediocre depending on the scenario or personnel involved, but they operate on a different levels, neither being better or worse than the other.

 

Just saying.

 

Von Tom

[curiousGamblerr]

For all the folks pining for coop, can I ask what it gives us that we don't already have? If you fly a FNBF it sounds like exactly what you guys are describing- everyone gets organized ahead of time, starts spawning it at the same time, there's a coherent narrative from mission to mission which drives the objectives... the only two things I hear that are missing are 1) you can't host the coop from in-game and 2) the game isnt automatically started and you don't automatically spawn.

 

Seems like #1 is the only real difference since #2 is solved easily by just having the host flip the map to start, or showing a "launch aircraft" message e.g. 10min in to signal the start of the mission like Tip does for FNBF. Personally I don't see a big deal with everyone starting their own game and stuff, and teamspeak is a perfectly fine lobby.

 

So really, what am I missing? Because folks have gone on and on about the old glory days of coops so there must be something I'm not considering?

Edited October 14, 2017 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[ShamrockOneFive]

In the original IL-2 coop mode had you get into a game, assign yourself a plane, and then you fly a prearranged mission. It was so much fun as back then you couldn't include AI flights in dogfight mode but I think more importantly it was everyone having the same mission start and experience at the same time. So long as the coop missions were good you'd have a really fun time and hopefully survive to the end.

 

It was the experience of starting up a coop together more than the actual nuts and bolts that made the difference.

 

Some people like DBS run missions that are essentially like coop but that takes much more planning than just setting up a coop and making it happen. I'm hoping to fly some coops with friends once the feature comes out... assuming it works as well as I think it does.

[Mac_Messer]

So really, what am I missing? Because folks have gone on and on about the old glory days of coops so there must be something I'm not considering?

Maybe an external dynamic mission generator (mission generated depended on current - to - time fronline state, airfield resources, strenght of defense points - worked like a strategy game). Host generated mission and all was set for other players - all of them entered the game first, then were briefed. On weekends, multiple missions were generated at the same times by 6-7 different hosts. So when you enetered a generated mission, the frontline / resources status was already altered. This provided and illusion of a player being a part of war - a huge event that happened here and now, in multiple different places at the same time, largely independant of one pilot`s actions.

[Gambit21]

For all the folks pining for coop, can I ask what it gives us that we don't already have? If you fly a FNBF it sounds like exactly what you guys are describing- everyone gets organized ahead of time, starts spawning it at the same time, there's a coherent narrative from mission to mission which drives the objectives... the only two things I hear that are missing are 1) you can't host the coop from in-game and 2) the game isnt automatically started and you don't automatically spawn.

Seems like #1 is the only real difference since #2 is solved easily by just having the host flip the map to start, or showing a "launch aircraft" message e.g. 10min in to signal the start of the mission like Tip does for FNBF. Personally I don't see a big deal with everyone starting their own game and stuff, and teamspeak is a perfectly fine lobby.

So really, what am I missing? Because folks have gone on and on about the old glory days of coops so there must be something I'm not considering?

This CoOp thing isn't properly understood by those who didn't experience it in the old sim with Hyperlobby.

Most every person saying "we don't need CoOp's" or "we already have CoOps" wasn't there flying with us in Hyperlobby, and simply has no idea.

 

With Hyperlobby we simply logged on whenever we had some spare time to fly - no planning ahead required.

Someone would post a mission they'd built (often me) and anyone available and flying that night would click and join the list.

I'd wait a few minutes and when it was sufficiently populated I'd launch the mission.

We all started at the same time and flew with, and against each other.

 

We had a core group of mission oriented participants, and rarely was there any sort of problem.

There certainly wasn't any sort of "devolving" happening in any sense.

On the rare occasion when an asshat showed up, I would boot him from the mission and remember his name.

 

Then when the mission ended we'd be back in Hyperlobby and I or someone else would post another mission, maybe I'd ask in the chat "attack on Henderson sound good?" "Early Eastern Front?" Get some feedback, and launch the next mission.

Repeat.

 

Often I'd host a mission that I'd built that day - good times.

We made good use of AI - often we'd each pick a slot as flight lead so that we had AI wingmen to order around.

 

Some nights when it was slow and "the gang" wasn't around I'd end up in Zeke vs Wilcat" or a similar server.

 

The functionality and experience we have now is nothing close, and anyone who was not there in the old days frankly and simply cannot relate. That's understandable - just remember that those of us talking fondly of Hyperlobby and CoOps, know of what we speak.

We don't have anything deserving of the term when comparing to what we had.

Jason mentioned he'd like a Hyperlobby type system eventually for good reason - he was there and he gets it.

 

If it happens again - you'll see

Edited October 15, 2017 by Gambit21

[coconut]

what it gives us that we don't already have

 

Technically speaking there are things you can do in SP missions you can't do in MP, namely mixed human/AI flights, waypoints and orders to human flights, logic triggered by specific planes.

 

Then there's the UI aspects around that I think most people are asking for: lobby, mission generation and server start from within the game.

 

Regarding organizing coops, there is only one person that has managed to pull that off on a regular basis, that's Tip (OK, not really true, the French squads also get things running in their corner of the internet). Last Tuesday I tried to organize something, it flopped. Ironically enough the server actually got lots of players that night. People just don't like booking themselves one week in advance, I think there's a need for blessed tools for spontaneous, on the spot mini-events.

Edited October 15, 2017 by coconut

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

old times ......

[WWDubya]

@Gambit21

"If it happens again - you'll see :)"

 

^ This... so much, this!

 

Oh... and one of my favorite bits about surviving a Co-op was taking the time to watch the rest of the survivors get into landing pattern, and observe their landings, prior to mission close. It was always fun to raz the pilots with comments such as "no pressure," or ""recording this!" as they attempt to land a crippled aircraft, and then rouse a hearty congrats when they pulled off a perfect landing using only rudder and engine thrust. Them's was the days.  

Edited October 15, 2017 by WWDubya

[curiousGamblerr]

Thanks for the answers guys, makes sense. I hope I get to see it! I was mostly SP in the original game, hung out on screenshotart.com but never really got into the hyperlobby scene- sounds like I missed some good times!

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

Hyperlobby Coop1 and Coop2.

 

Crazy Ivan ran some good ones back then.

[katdog5]

nothing quite as fun as me and 5 other friends launching in a b25 on the carrier hornet and fly over retextured kyushu on a bombing raid...epic

 

there was a bf110 coop mission from LowLand Tiger Meet that was totally awesome It was like 20+ bf110s flying in formation through mountains attacking a working airfield.  jaw dropping 

 

not hyper lobby tho. just right from my own pc

 

coop was the greatest. can't wait

@Gambit21

"If it happens again - you'll see :)"

 

^ This... so much, this!

 

Oh... and one of my favorite bits about surviving a Co-op was taking the time to watch the rest of the survivors get into landing pattern, and observe their landings, prior to mission close. It was always fun to raz the pilots with comments such as "no pressure," or ""recording this!" as they attempt to land a crippled aircraft, and then rouse a hearty congrats when they pulled off a perfect landing using only rudder and engine thrust. Them's was the days.  

absolutely hilarious

Edited October 16, 2017 by katdog5

[Tomsk]

This CoOp thing isn't properly understood by those who didn't experience it in the old sim with Hyperlobby.

Most every person saying "we don't need CoOp's" or "we already have CoOps" wasn't there flying with us in Hyperlobby, and simply has no idea.

 

With Hyperlobby we simply logged on whenever we had some spare time to fly - no planning ahead required.

Someone would post a mission they'd built (often me) and anyone available and flying that night would click and join the list.

I'd wait a few minutes and when it was sufficiently populated I'd launch the mission.

We all started at the same time and flew with, and against each other.

 

Mini necro but I was searching for threads on co-op and found this one.

 

So I wasn't around for the Hyperlobby days, but having the ability to turn up whenever I have spare time, and fly a coop mission sounds amazing. I really hope we get to see this kind of thing again!

[Gambit21]

Jason announced it as a long term goal some time ago, with the Rof functionality first.

However development challenges being what they are, as a customer I'm not holding him to it.

Hoping though...

[katdog5]

Jason announced it as a long term goal some time ago, with the Rof functionality first.

However development challenges being what they are, as a customer I'm not holding him to it.

Hoping though...

Long time goal for coop?? no, due out w Kuban. OR you mean hyper lobby eh

Edited December 20, 2017 by katdog5

[Gambit21]

Long time goal for coop?? no, due out w Kuban. OR you mean hyper lobby eh

 

Yep - Hyperlobby-type.

That's what many of us mean when we say "CoOps"

[Brano]

Im so looking forward to coops. Im gonna buy BoK for my brother as Xmas gift so we can fly together again.

The ultimate Holy Grail would be coop ingame campaign

[Tomsk]

Yep - Hyperlobby-type.

That's what many of us mean when we say "CoOps"

 

So Hyperlobby was a third party program that worked with the original IL2. What's to stop the community developing a similar sort of thing themselves again? i.e. developing it outside of IL2 BoX?

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

So Hyperlobby was a third party program that worked with the original IL2. What's to stop the community developing a similar sort of thing themselves again? i.e. developing it outside of IL2 BoX?

The ability to launch the game and immediately join the selected server a function the old IL2 had.

[Chief_Mouser]

The other feature in the old Il-2 co-ops, that hasn't been mentioned yet, is 'Dead is dead'. If you lost your aircraft that was it; your mission was over as there was no way to join a co-op once it was launched. People crashing on take-off were out straightaway, so it paid to know your plane and how to fly it. If there were too many early exits the host would often restart, but if it was just you then you had to go and find another mission somewhere.

Occasionally it would happen in SEOW; a three-hour mission you'd been looking forward to all week and you'd foul up right at the start . I seem to remember doing one as a gunner in a 'Sunderland', and the pilot getting us stuck on the shore before we'd even got airborne. It wasn't even my doing but I was out.

Great times though - we all became better pilots and team players for it; looking forward to doing it all again.

Cheers.

[Gambit21]

The ability to launch the game and immediately join the selected server a function the old IL2 had.

Yes and Hyperlobby was a third-party app as Tomsk suggested.

[Herne]

I'm not familiar with co-op in IL2 but do you think it will be drop in drop out ? so if my friend comes online while i'm half way through a sortie, could he just seemlessly join and take control of one of the AI in my flight ? or join and pick a plane and meet us somewhere. Or is it more like we have to organise ourselves to be ready at a certain time, then start the mission together ?

 

Edit: first method might be more internet problem friendly

Edited December 20, 2017 by =11=herne

[Mac_Messer]

=11=herne, that would be interesting. If you`re asking about the classic IL2 1946 coop (different than RoF coop) model then no - you cannot jump in, jump out in a multiplayer session. You have to be present and join the coop server at the briefing phase, before the mission start.

[katdog5]

Yep - Hyperlobby-type.

That's what many of us mean when we say "CoOps"

 

Ok. i just mean coop to mean coop. coming with the kuban release

=11=herne, that would be interesting. If you`re asking about the classic IL2 1946 coop (different than RoF coop) model then no - you cannot jump in, jump out in a multiplayer session. You have to be present and join the coop server at the briefing phase, before the mission start.

thats perfect

[Tomsk]

The ability to launch the game and immediately join the selected server a function the old IL2 had.

Ah does BoX not have that capability? Yeah that does rather limit things .. still that should be easy enough for the dev team to implement ... but I do agree that is a pre-requisite.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Yes and Hyperlobby was a third-party app as Tomsk suggested.

Yes I know? You've lost me here?

 

 

Ah does BoX not have that capability? Yeah that does rather limit things .. still that should be easy enough for the dev team to implement ... but I do agree that is a pre-requisite.

No it doesn't. Developer design choice not to provide it as I don't think they want a 3rd party application like hyperlobby to be used. Hence building their own functionality is on the road map.

[Gambit21]

Yes I know? You've lost me here?

 

You've lost me with your being lost.

I was just pointing out that the functionality (or more accurately ALL of the functionality involved to be fair) was not native to IL2 per-se