Turning Engine off at Altitude to stop contrailing to conceal a dive?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

ZachariasX I was speaking about the game not real life scenario , because games introduce simplification ,there is e key to turn on/ off all systems etc.. , simple saying turn engine on/off. Diving with windmilling prop or degree of it could be used as you said to stay with Stuka whatever but for sure you can use it practically. I don't think if that would work or not (outcome). In game you can press e again with engine running fine in seconds and be at enemy 6 , how you do that does not matter. I pointed that that it's jus academic discussion (about the game not real life) or not scenario to use. Get it?

[ZachariasX]

Ok I get it. It's just if you used "e", it shouldn't work in the game, as you also shut down the rest. I guess the gamers turn off the magnetos to get rid of the contrail and you can do as you said.

 

My point was, if braking effect by windmilling prop was modelled to a degree it acts in real life, no gamer would even think of cutting their magnetos. It would equal deploying dive brakes. This is why we see this odd behavior in the sim.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Ok I get it. It's just if you used "e", it shouldn't work in the game, as you also shut down the rest. I guess the gamers turn off the magnetos to get rid of the contrail and you can do as you said.

 

My point was, if braking effect by windmilling prop was modelled to a degree it acts in real life, no gamer would even think of cutting their magnetos. It would equal deploying dive brakes. This is why we see this odd behavior in the sim.

Yes you are right, that and other areas need work for sake of whole simulation authenticity and to avoid exploiting the game to gain unfair advantages. Edited October 12, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[curiousGamblerr]

Ok I get it. It's just if you used "e", it shouldn't work in the game, as you also shut down the rest. I guess the gamers turn off the magnetos to get rid of the contrail and you can do as you said.

 

My point was, if braking effect by windmilling prop was modelled to a degree it acts in real life, no gamer would even think of cutting their magnetos. It would equal deploying dive brakes. This is why we see this odd behavior in the sim.

I don't think anyone is thinking about doing it in the sim. Cymao already said this thread is talking about him and he did it by accident trying to type in chat.

[ZachariasX]

Yes you are right, that and other areas need work for sake of whole simulation authenticity and to avoid exploiting the game to gain unfair advantages.

So far I can live with the issue mentioned, as it is definitely NOT the reason I get wasted right away when logging ion on WoL.

[ITAF_Cymao]

 

 

unfair advantages

Why unfair?

It isn't unfair because everyone can do it, the use of flaps in certain cases can be unfair because not everyone can do the same thing, etc. etc. etc.

In H111 I broke both engines when I restarted them, the Focke is so slow to resume rpm that doing such a thing is just useless and damaging.

 

However if I didn't turn off my engine Haza wouldn't come back to base healthy and safe, the distraction to restart the engine cost me the engagement.

In fact, shortly after without turning off the engine I have shot down two russian fighters.

 

S!

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Why unfair?

It isn't unfair because everyone can do it, the use of flaps in certain cases can be unfair because not everyone can do the same thing, etc. etc. etc.

In H111 I broke both engines when I restarted them, the Focke is so slow to resume rpm that doing such a thing is just useless and damaging.

 

However if I didn't turn off my engine Haza wouldn't come back to base healthy and safe, the distraction to restart the engine cost me the engagement.

In fact, shortly after without turning off the engine I have shot down two russian fighters.

 

S!

I'm concerned about realistic simulation for example contrails should not be off because you press e key if in real life there are other factors ,(some simplification is necessary do cpu cycles) but exhaust gas temperature and humidity plus other is enough to simulate it properly in most cases. To me it's unfair because someone is doing it only to gain advantage, to fool enemies and get kill not for sake of simulation autencitity. It's just how you approach this genre. To you information autencitity on PC has to be reasonable (not in expense of ergonomic and fun). Edited October 12, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[Aap]

I personally think it is advantageous to have an engine running during a fight, rather than fighting in a glider.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I personally think it is advantageous to have an engine running during a fight, rather than fighting in a glider.

I think the same

[Guest deleted@50488]

Let them add GLIDERS to the fleet !!!!

We need GLIDERS !!!!

[ITAF_Cymao]

Is the essence of the air duel attacking without being seen.

It happened to me to be attacked by a plane that didn't make contrails and I haven't found it unfair. After all, everyone can do it!

It isn't usefull, that's all.

Anyway, I didn't understand if for you it is also unfair to use flaps in some cases, or to go with the cockpit open at 8\9 km altitude to see better at him 6?

All things that can not be made by everyone.

 

S!

Edited October 12, 2017 by ITAF_Cymao

[Barnacles]

As far as I can recall, if you go 0% throttle the contrail stops sometimes. Maybe they just did this rather than swithcing the engine off.

[von-Luck]

So one guy noticed this once and the offending party declared it was an accident. What's the big deal? There seems to be an awful lot of crying for a one time coincidence. If nobody is doing this consistently why are we complaining about it?

 

von Luck

[Flitgun]

So one guy noticed this once and the offending party declared it was an accident. What's the big deal? There seems to be an awful lot of crying for a one time coincidence. If nobody is doing this consistently why are we complaining about it?

 

von Luck

 

There were technical matters to clarify.

 

[curiousGamblerr]

So one guy noticed this once and the offending party declared it was an accident. What's the big deal? There seems to be an awful lot of crying for a one time coincidence. If nobody is doing this consistently why are we complaining about it?

 

von Luck

Welcome to the forums!

[Willy__]

 

 

So one guy noticed this once and the offending party declared it was an accident. What's the big deal? There seems to be an awful lot of crying for a one time coincidence. If nobody is doing this consistently why are we complaining about it? von Luck

 

Its the VVS, the Very Victimized Society whining. 

[Haza]

Its the VVS, the Very Victimized Society whining. 

 

Staiger,

 

As a players who needs the JG prefix and rarely plays VVS in WOL, yet throughout the various forums continually complains about the Pe2, the OP ammo and the Russian Bias from both developers and server hosts, yet accuses others of whining, I perhaps should have expected this from you!  However, I'm not sure how my forum question differs from yours?

 

In deed, if we are both striving for the same thing regarding realism within this sim, perhaps we should stop with the silly name calling or accusations of whinng!?

 

     As you put it!!!

 

 

So one guy noticed this once and the offending party declared it was an accident. What's the big deal? There seems to be an awful lot of crying for a one time coincidence. If nobody is doing this consistently why are we complaining about it?

 

von Luck

 

Von_luck,

 

I will address this myself with you as it would appear that your reference to "one guy" perhaps is in reference to me as I initiated the post. 

 

I'm sure if you had taken the time to slowly read my post, you will see from the 2nd paragraph, which is not a complaint and certainly no "crying" as you put it, but a question asking what in RL if anything, turning the engine off would have regarding contrails and the engine/aircraft performance.  As a young Apprentice, I learnt Piston engine theory and later gas-turbine theory and how propellers (Flight fine pitch stops etc etc) in a dive can cause braking effects and in-deed damage an engine.  Therefore, the thrust of the post was to see if any of this was modeled within the game!  Being old and lazy, I couldn't be bothered to try and dig through my old Apprentice notes and was hoping that some "experts" would be able to give guidance. 

 

Therefore, I'm not sure how you have put 2 and 2 together to come up with 5 and accusing others of complaining, when actually the "Big Deal" as you put it for me, is the realism of this sim, rather than perhaps the arcade attitude that others may or may not have.

 

In addition, I was certainly well aware of the individual that attacked me as I can check stats and had no intention of trying to name and shame an intentional event or not, however, in this same forum, Gridiron has acknowledged that it has happened to him a few times, therefore, perhaps not a "one time coincidence" as you are quick to point out. 

 

Therefore, just to sum up, I couldn't give a "rat's arse" about what the other player did, I however would like to understand and know the RL consequences of doing such a thing!

 

Regards

Edited October 13, 2017 by Haza

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

@Haza well said.

[ITAF_Cymao]

You talk about realism but only about what you want.

But when someone asks for more realism about things you care about, you aren't longer lovers of realism!

And you say that they are just whiners!

Nobody in this discussion said that's all right.

Maybe it was enough to say that if the engine is off, the plane can continue to make contrails for another minute or two minutes or as much as you want (I don't think it's hard to do such a thing)!

But none of you, lovers of realism, when we talk about some aircraft admits that maybe some things are unrealistic, very unrealistic!

This strabismus is not good!

 

S!

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

@Cymao are you speaking about me? Because throwing accusations like this and using "you that and you that" has to be addressed ...

[xvii-Dietrich]

Maybe it was enough to say that if the engine is off, the plane can continue to make contrails for another minute or two minutes or as much as you want (I don't think it's hard to do such a thing)!

No.

 

When the engine is off, the combustion reaction ceases. There is no longer water being produced and the production of contrails ceases immediately.

[Haza]

You talk about realism but only about what you want.

But when someone asks for more realism about things you care about, you aren't longer lovers of realism!

And you say that they are just whiners!

Nobody in this discussion said that's all right.

Maybe it was enough to say that if the engine is off, the plane can continue to make contrails for another minute or two minutes or as much as you want (I don't think it's hard to do such a thing)!

But none of you, lovers of realism, when we talk about some aircraft admits that maybe some things are unrealistic, very unrealistic!

This strabismus is not good!

 

S!

 

Cymao,

 

If you are referring to me, then please save your breath as although I'm happy to take the personal hit, I'm happy to dish as well, but not sure it will be received in the same manner . 

 

Realism is realism and has nothing to do we what I want here, however, understanding what would happen in real life perhaps differs from what others want or demand in game!  If you are trying to be subtle and referring to what I want without going over your gripes about the Pe2 (as I have raised my own concerns regarding a certain server appearing to allow the AI gunner to be OTT, also), ammo and all of the other things that you have mentioned before, then yes, I agree things need to be a realistic as possible.  Therefore please do not infer that I care little about what you want or others may demand, as there are other servers that are available that I'm sure might fulfill players requests/desires, up to a point, but everybody should be able to accommodate this, surely? 

 

However, ironically or selfishly,  I would like to think that my question was/is above what is on a server and perhaps more about what would or does happen in real life and what this sim/game has actually modeled in its core software/programming to simulate a possible RL event.  Therefore, lets agree to disagree and stick to the discussion at hand regarding what in the real world would happen regarding contrails and everything else mentioned would bring.  If it were to be modeled, great, if it can't, then fine, or if it is accurate even better, but at least I know what should happen.  I guess having the ability to inadvertently turn an engine off in flight while trying to chat to "your" mates from a historical view point, is unrealistic, very unrealistic, yet it happens, hey, so I for one am certainly not trying to take the moral high ground on this one but merely trying to understand the effects/impacts on a real life situation from a technical view point.

 

Therefore, I would request that you do not try and derail this thread and lets stop the "He said, I said, sh*t fight!  This is a simple question that I asked, that certainly does not need to become silly!

 

Regards

Edited October 13, 2017 by Haza

[Aap]

Overall, at least this thread has been useful, as many of us got to learn new things about contrails from Dietrich. While I was aware of the basics that water vapour is causing the contrails, it is always nice to get more detailed explanation of such things. Just like learning from SoW forums, when Dietrich explained, why an engine gets damaged, if you shut it off immediately after landing, without cooling it down. That is how we get wiser 

Edited October 13, 2017 by II./JG77_Kemp

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Overall, at least this thread has been useful, as many of us got to learn new things about contrails from Dietrich. While I was aware of the basics that water vapour is causing the contrails, it is always nice to get more detailed explanation of such things. Just like learning from SoW forums, when Dietrich explained, why an engine gets damaged, if you shut it off immediately after landing, without cooling it down. That is how we get wiser

True ,have that implement in BOX would be nice too.