A very very simple solution for adding numbers to planes?

[56RAF_Roblex]

Am I missing something?  Is there any reason why this is not a trivial update? 

 

 

 If they can attach 'damage' decals to a plane mid battle then surely attaching two numbers to an unnumbered skin from spawn onwards must be possible. Instead of 'This plane has been hit in the wing by a cannon shell so add a decal of a hole in the wing in this place that everyone can see from now onwards', you say at spawn time 'The player has requested that this plane be number 12 so add a decal of a 12 in these two places that everyone can see from now onwards'. No radical change to the code or graphics is needed. Just copy and re-purpose the existing damage code. You don't really even need to copy and adapt the damage code, just keep the existing damage code and add a new set of decals and say 'When this plane spawns it is immediately hit in these two places by a hidden 'Mk.12 Splat Gun' and the damage decal for a Mk.12 splat gun looks like a '12' :-)

 

This would enable large squads to keep track of which of their squad members they are looking at ,  forming up one etc.  as they can do in CLoD.     Currently I am having to make 12 skins for each aircraft my squad flies and even that won't work in Winter maps as the default skin everyone else sees is bright green.

[Feathered_IV]

Nothing seems to be simple in this game compared to how the ancients did it. It sure would be nice though!

[Jade_Monkey]

Coming up with the idea is very simple. Implementing it not so much. It always sounds easy when you dont have to do all the work.

 

Also, they are a bit behind schedule for BOK so im sure they wont have time for this for a while.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Jade_Monkey

[OrLoK]

I too would like the feature but it's probably a lot more complex than OP hopes.

 

Game design is an odd thing and something that one assumes would be "easy" is often so tied into other part of the game that its not "worth" it results vs cost.

 

I believe the ability to add insignia etc as in CloD has been brought up before but isnt currently simple to implement. (dont quote me on that though)

[PatrickAWlson]

Not sure.  Other games have implemented decals on certain spots (FPS it is often blood, bullet holes and burn marks, etc.).  I am not a graphics guy so I do not know the technique, but it seems that it should be transferable to airplanes in a flight sim.

 

I certainly get the part about elaborate paint schemes not being implementable this way, but if we are talking a number or a chevron always in the same location, that doesn't seem unreasonable. 

[56RAF_Roblex]

My point is that they already have code to add a cannon hole in your wing.  This means they have code that says 'IF (cannon shell hits X) THEN add Cannon_Damage_Graphic at position_Y.' so they can duplicate that working subroutine/process whatever and simplify the logic test to instead say 'If (Just_Spawned)' and replace 'Cannon_Damage_Graphic' with 'Number12_Graphic' and 'position_Y' with 'position_FuselageNumber'

 

Yes I know the hole does not necessarily match the impact spot exactly but that is OK because it could mean that it has a table of fixed locations that the Hole graphic will be placed at if a shot hits in a certain area. The new routine just needs two locations, the co-ordinates of the blank space where the numbers should be put on either side of the fuselage.

 

I am not saying 'This *must* be as simple as I think and *must* be done now.'  I am just saying that with this technique the job may be easier than they first thought and could be re-considered at some point in the future.  Previous official objections to the request for custom numbers have been based on 'The code has been inherited from the RoF code and was not designed for custom codes and it would be extremely difficult & impractical to completely rewrite all the code just for this feature.'   

 

ps Before taking early retirement I did once get an obscene salary for designing and coding complex software suites so while I may not know this particular genre or specific code I do have a better idea than a complete novice about how software works and yes I do know that sometimes what looks simple turns out to be almost impossible :-)

Edited September 30, 2017 by 56RAF_Roblex

[sniperton]

I can see through those bullet holes, so probably the damage is not added as an additional paint layer which could be (partially) replaced by a decal. Instead, it seems to be applied directly to the underlying 3D structure. Damage doesn't seem to be a simple layer blended onto the surface/texture via an alpha channel (as was the case in Il-2 1946 where decals posed no problems therefore).

[Yogiflight]

The cannon holes are the wrong example, as you, indeed can look through the big holes. What Roblex is talking about are the bullet holes, and no, you can't see through them, exept you push a nail through your screen and pull it out again.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Seeing through the holes doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a decal. In the old Il-2 for example it would add a fully transparent decal the size and shape of a cannon round which would show some part of the 3D model that is modelled internally.

[curiousGamblerr]

I think this is very clever, as I said in the other thread last night. It could just be something the devs haven't thought of- doubtful, but you never know. In any case, there's no sense in us conversing in circles about it. We have no idea.

 

So, I think this should be posted in the Suggestions subforum or something. Maybe Han or someone will response.

 

And Lucas already said the other thing I was gonna say while I was typing this, basically. Based on what I've seen of transparent skins, I would guess the opaque bullet holes and transparent bigger holes are done in the same way. One is just a transparent decal or whatever you want to call it. I'm not a skinning expert but I'm pretty sure you could make a skin with a big ol' hole in the wing if you wanted to. You can't make the wing spars etc. transparent, but neither does battle damage in game.

[56RAF_Roblex]

I have just checked with a track that included a plane with both cannon and bullet holes (unless the smaller ones are shrapnel holes) and they really have changed the external skin as if you get the angle right you can see the ground through the matching holes on the underside of the wing. I could also see daylight through some of the smaller holes  Pretty impresssive!   

 

 

OK not as simple as a 'decal' but I suppose that if they are able to replace sections of metal/fabric with physical 3D holes they can replace parts of the fuselage with undamaged parts that have a number on.

Edited September 30, 2017 by 56RAF_Roblex

[Pict]

To add numbers the way it was done in the original IL2, each place a number was required would need a 3d plane added in the model as a reference point to attach a texture...

 

Plus all the textures representing different numbers, & the GUI interface needed to manipulate them

 

It would be a fair few man hours to produce something that meets the high standard they have set for everything else

Edited September 30, 2017 by Pict

[sniperton]

Fine, I didn't claim I know how it is. Those were only my impressions and conclusions based on what I do see in-game. Related to bullet holes, not cannon holes. Let's have the devs have their word.

Edited September 30, 2017 by sniperton

[Gambit21]

I can see through those bullet holes, so probably the damage is not added as an additional paint layer which could be (partially) replaced by a decal. Instead, it seems to be applied directly to the underlying 3D structure. 

 

No - simple shape in the alpha channel of the texture.

I don't have time to explain 3D/texture workflow here, but suffice to say the damage/hole has nothing to do with the polygons and vertexes of the 3D model.

[56RAF_Roblex]

No - simple shape in the alpha channel of the texture.

I don't have time to explain 3D/texture workflow here, but suffice to say the damage/hole has nothing to do with the polygons and vertexes of the 3D model.

 So basically made the texture transparent in places?

[Gambit21]

 So basically made the texture transparent in places?

 

Makes the 3D mesh transparent in places, and along with it the texture in that spot as well.

However doesn't actually change the underlying 3D structure.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Gambit21

[sniperton]

Thanks, Gambit, for the clarification. Still I can't see how the same transparency layer could be used for overlay decals without affecting damage display.

[56RAF_Roblex]

Thanks, Gambit, for the clarification. Still I can't see how the same transparency layer could be used for overlay decals without affecting damage display.

 

I don't think Gambit was saying that. I think he was saying that because damage graphics are done using the alpha layer then it is probably *not* feasible to use the same system to also add numbers to the fuselage as I had initially thought.

 

That was why I started this post; to see if I had missed an important point. It just seemed too easy :-)

Edited October 1, 2017 by 56RAF_Roblex

[unreasonable]

What happens if you get hit on the decal?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

What happens if you get hit on the decal?

They'd need a damage image that applies to all numbers and matches all planes, with the varied positions of numbers and such. Somewhere between impractical and impossible.

[unreasonable]

Sounds about right. I used to use the 1946 decal system in my SP DCG campaigns: until I decided that they looked horrible, (fake and stuck on),  and putting my squadron into individually numbered home made custom skins looked way better, since DCG allowed for that. 

 

For SP purposes it would be preferable if the new Career allowed you to skin your wingmen in this way - RoF did not IIRC, but got a default skin for each squadron.  TBH when actually playing it is not so important, since you are rarely close enough to see the markings clearly, but if you are using a career track for filming it makes for a better picture. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by unreasonable

[Yogiflight]

 

 

TBH when actually playing it is not so important, since you are rarely close enough to see the markings clearly

I find it quite interesting when flying. Not so much when I am the flightleader, but as a wingman, I definitely would like to know, if I am following the right aircraft, or if I have to leave a gap for another wingman, so he doesn't ram into my aircraft, when he tries to take his position in the formation. The aircraft numbers are one of the things I am missing the most in BOX.

[sniperton]

putting my squadron into individually numbered home made custom skins looked way better, since DCG allowed for that. 

Yep, but those were only 1 MB files, while a BoX skin file is much bigger, and having 12 files for a squad (5.5 MB each) is what the OP, quite understandably, wished to avoid.

 

They'd need a damage image that applies to all numbers and matches all planes, with the varied positions of numbers and such. Somewhere between impractical and impossible.

Theoretically it wouldn't be impossible, but some code change would be certainly needed. Each skin should be accompanied by another two files, one image file containing all the decals/numbers from #1 to #12 as a tiled pattern, the other being a small data file containing the mapping info for the decals/numbers (the exact position where the tiles should be blended onto the skin as an overlay once the skin is loaded). I'd call it parametrized loading of 'compound' skins, where first the general skin is loaded into memory (for each plane in the same squad), then individual tiles are put on top of that at the given position (for each plane separately). It would be the skinner's responsibility to provide the numbers and the mapping info, and everything could be checked in the aircraft viewer. Applying damage would work the same way as before. Dunno whether it would be a solution memory-wise.