Let's talk about the G6

[von-Luck]

Really? I would say the Bredas do have more Punch Shot per Shot. 

 

 

I imagine the AP will be worst for the 131 - however AP should be a minority of the load out.  we'll see how this pan's out in game . . . explosive damage isnt treated the best in IL2.  

 

It probably was a typo, meaning 10mm at 100m, then 7.8mm at 300m

that sounds much more likely

 

von Luck

Edited October 16, 2017 by von-Luck

[von-Luck]

Here's an interesting extrapolation of power for MG's/Cannons in WWII.  The 131 isn't treated the kindest here however it should give you an indication of it's performance.  

 

http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

 

von Luck

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

He's trying to generalize a kind of nationalism.  The answer is anyone whom is a fervent believer of nationalism is capable of filling that roll.  America is in a strange place right now and there are a lot of nationalists however America isn't alone in that - all across the world (yes even the western world) nationalism has been on the rise.  Framing American's in this is simply short sighted - you needn't look hard to find a similar mindset in even your own country. 

 

 

Any form of mass collectivism has its problems.The control of MSM, entertainment and academia (in the west) by an almost Marxist style ideology has more or less created its own foes. From an outsider looking in the (establishment) in Germany is living in a perpetual state of guilt over what happened in WWII and doesn’t seem to care that their cultural and heritage is being eroded. It’s not just Germany either, Europe is not in a good place now and has as many and if not more complex issues than the USA 

 

Many people are just getting fed up with intersectional, collectivist, identity politics, where you will have certain groups of people clutching at their pearls (or in the case of Antifa beating people to a pulp) if you have a view that is slightly right of Lenin.

 

 

 

  I do not like to see America the way it is right now. I know there is something worthwhile underneath it all, but the way things are going now, nothing is going to get any better. 

 

I feel the same about Europe.

 

Anyway, back to topic with a video.

 

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Lots people are very excited about the MG131, but I am not so optimistic, just try the He111H16 's dorsal turret, you will know how bad the MG131 trajectory is. I am afraid that it will hard to score a hit when do deflection shot in dogfight.

[DB605]

Well at least IRL pilots welcomed warmly the additional firepower of G6s compared to G2, they now felt they weren't toothless anymore if cannon got jammed or run out of ammo etc.

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Psychology, on both Ends. 

 

Imagine the 109G-2 Pilot, out of Cannon Rounds. He's firing at the enemy, especially a wooden one, and there is very little visual impact. 

The Pilot in the Il-2 being fired at, he feels and hears virtually nothing of it. 

 

Now take the G-6 Pilot. He fires the 131s and there are many destructive flashes whereever he hits. 

And the Il-2 Pilot will also rethink his Place in the World, but more so his place in the Il-2, and be convinced more easily to leave his plane while flying. Becaue he notices all the flashes around him as well. 

 

Now, wether the actual destructive effect in a given timeframe or round count is actually increased doesn't really matter at that point. 

 

I'm not saying that  the MG131 may or may not have been more destructive, but I think the Psycholigcal Effect of HE-I Rounds shouldn't be underestimated as well. 

 

It's that whole Placebo/Self-Deception thing again. 

[[TWB]dillon_biz]

Jesus what a rollercoaster of a thread.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

[Irgendjemand]

Lots people are very excited about the MG131, but I am not so optimistic, just try the He111H16 's dorsal turret, you will know how bad the MG131 trajectory is. I am afraid that it will hard to score a hit when do deflection shot in dogfight.

 

if it behaves like the german 20mm it will do not much more than black smokepuffs i fear.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[MrNoice]

if it behaves like the german 20mm it will do not much more than black smokepuffs i fear.

indeee ^^ but everyone is telling to aim better instead of yes its not correct XD

[Irgendjemand]

I dare to say I am (not the best) but a pretty decent shot. Sometimes it takes more than 10 full hits (from a focke - so 2x20mm each) to a spitfire for it to have anything fall apart. Lots and lots of black smokepuffs but not much else. Sure there are occasions where it goes faster. Not saying its every single time like that. But its feels^TM like too many occasions.
I hope for you 109 jockeys the 30mm will change that. For me the 109 has become porked since the last patch because it practically doesnt react on elevator anymore at high speeds. And its capability of high speed attacks were the only thing that made it worthwhile flying for me. I really dont like to get involved in low level furballs since thats the VVS playground. If I do I always get shot down:P
190 is very capable and responsive during highspeed attacks. Thats why I love it.

[Asgar]

if it behaves like the german 20mm it will do not much more than black smokepuffs i fear.

 

indeee ^^ but everyone is telling to aim better instead of yes its not correct XD

you guys are starting to get on my nerves, shut up and git gud, ever since the buff the 20mm are more than capable at taking out any target

[Irgendjemand]

you guys are starting to get on my nerves

Why should i care?

Your opinion is yours and mine is mine. 

And its not the question if its capable of destroying an enemy plane. The question is if its capable enough if compared to other guns. That is what I doubt but surely cannot prove. I a just expressing my opinion here. If you have aproblem with that may I suggest the /ignore function?

Edited October 16, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[DB605]

 For me the 109 has become porked since the last patch because it practically doesnt react on elevator anymore at high speeds. And its capability of high speed attacks were the only thing that made it worthwhile flying for me. I really dont like to get involved in low level furballs since thats the VVS playground. If I do I always get shot down:P

190 is very capable and responsive during highspeed attacks. Thats why I love it.

 

It does react just fine, at high speeds you just must learn to use elevator trim at same time - just like in real life.

 

FM patch in my opinion was best thing ever happened to this game. It finally became the sim i've waited since BoS early access. Of course many areas still needs some work.

[Tuesday]

Jesus what a rollercoaster of a thread.

 

It has truly been a wild ride of useful info and useless bigotry.

[Irgendjemand]

It does react just fine, at high speeds you just must learn to use elevator trim at same time - just like in real life.

 

FM patch in my opinion was best thing ever happened to this game. It finally became the sim i've waited since BoS early access. Of course many areas still needs some work.

 

Good. I am happy you like it! Ill stick to my 190. Got little time to play anyways. Cant even master the 190 properly. Wouldnt be wise to try and also squeeze the 109 in:)

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Well if Jesus can't save the thread maybe Tenacious D can?

 

 

 

 

 

Lots and lots of black smokepuffs but not much else.

 

 

The 20mm are fine after the patch, I don't know why so many people are getting excited about the possibilities of having the 108 in the G6. Just look at this footage of a 262 against the mighty P-51. Pathetic penetration and damage!

 

 

 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Man, that really opened my eyes to the supremacy of the .50 BMG

[Mac_Messer]

The trick here, BMW801, is that the G6 will have a similar performance package to the G4 - we all know the G4 isn't a slouch in game so I would say you get the addition of the MG 131's, hopefully the MK 108, in a package that already performs in a familiar way.  If your the turn & burn 109 pilot then you may not appreciate this but for bounces it should be wonderful.  I hope the 108 makes it in and I pray it will be the 1 hit KO it deserves.  that darned shell had as much explosive in it as a 40mm Bofors.  

 

von Luck

I don`t know about that. Correct me if I`m wrong, but I seem to remember the new IL2 having the same problems with modelling HE rounds as the 1946. Meaning it explodes immediately on impact, doing little damage to the surface it hit. And even if that, I wonder how it acts against wood and how against metal surfaces.

[Finkeren]

I don`t know about that. Correct me if I`m wrong, but I seem to remember the new IL2 having the same problems with modelling HE rounds as the 1946. Meaning it explodes immediately on impact, doing little damage to the surface it hit. And even if that, I wonder how it acts against wood and how against metal surfaces.

Oh yeah, I remember that. The MK 108 was completely worthless in IL2-1946... ...oh wait, it wasn't. It was a 1-shot wonderweapon.

[[TWB]80hd]

Oh yeah, I remember that. The MK 108 was completely worthless in IL2-1946... ...oh wait, it wasn't. It was a 1-shot wonderweapon.

 

Right?!

 

Even if it DOES explode on contact, it's hitting an airframe... it will devastate whatever it hits.

 

[von-Luck]

Sorry for my contributions to the crazy side of this thread. As for the MK108 I have fingers crossed - 37mm HE was demonstrated prior to the rework and it was less impressive than AP. I should climb into a 110G2 load up some HE belts and shoot some stuff. If it swats fighters then I imagine the MK108 will be in a good place. I hope for 1-2 hits to kill single engine aircraft 1-4 to kill twin engine bomber types.

 

von Luck

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Authentic Luftwaffe Facegear according to Redtails

 

 

 

And the Hanna Reitsch Edition

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[Barnacles]

In the setup screen for the G4 it says the top speed reduction for 2 x mg151/20 gunpods is 12km/h. It would seem odd to me, no matter how bulgey the G6 is, if it was more than 12km/h slower without gunpods than the G4 with gunpods.

 

Or maybe areodynamics are just counter intuitive.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

In the setup screen for the G4 it says the top speed reduction for 2 x mg151/20 gunpods is 12km/h. It would seem odd to me, no matter how bulgey the G6 is, if it was more than 12km/h slower without gunpods than the G4 with gunpods.

 

Or maybe areodynamics are just counter intuitive.

A clean G-6 will be 8-9kph slower than a clean G-4. 

[Finkeren]

The thing is: The G6 was by no means a dog and it was only marginally inferior in performance to the G2. However, the G6 represented a marginal downgrade in performance at a crucial time, when the opposing fighter designs were starting to catch up to the 109's performance. As such is was kind of a turning point, along with the Fw 190A8 some months later, where German fighter design started lagging behind the competition in terms of performance.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Finkeren

[=RvE=Windmills]

Wasn't it also significantly too heavy in 1946 vanilla?

[Finkeren]

Wasn't it also significantly too heavy in 1946 vanilla?

Probably. In any case it was completely porked for whatever reason.

 

I have no doubt, that this G6 will be no more different from the G4 than the G4 is from the G2.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

 

 

I have no doubt, that this G6 will be no more different from the G4 than the G4 is from the G2.

That probably sums it up the best.  

[Gambit21]

Oh yeah, I remember that. The MK 108 was completely worthless in IL2-1946... ...oh wait, it wasn't. It was a 1-shot wonderweapon.

 

I have a fond memory of exploding Pedro's hot pink Spitfire in a vertical, downward dive with that thing.

[MrNoice]

Well if Jesus can't save the thread maybe Tenacious D can?

 

 

 

 

The 20mm are fine after the patch, I don't know why so many people are getting excited about the possibilities of having the 108 in the G6. Just look at this footage of a 262 against the mighty P-51. Pathetic penetration and damage!

 

 

 

omg that made my day ^^

 

it could be made in il2 ... german 20mm vs russian planes ^^

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

That time your 20mm hits created so much black smoke that you couldn't see the target anymore; and he sprung a fuel leak.

[[TWB]80hd]

Sorry for my contributions to the crazy side of this thread. As for the MK108 I have fingers crossed - 37mm HE was demonstrated prior to the rework and it was less impressive than AP. I should climb into a 110G2 load up some HE belts and shoot some stuff. If it swats fighters then I imagine the MK108 will be in a good place. I hope for 1-2 hits to kill single engine aircraft 1-4 to kill twin engine bomber types.

 

von Luck

 

110G2 has the BK37, which annihilates fighters regardless of shell used.

 

The Hs129B has the MK101 and the MK103, which also decimate, but they also have a much higher muzzle velocity than the MK108.

 

I do not believe the MK108 is in game yet, but I do fly shnokered a lot, so who knows.

 

Hitting something with an MK108 might be tough, but I will lay green money down on a single hit ending a fighter's sortie more times than not.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

110G2 has the BK37, which annihilates fighters regardless of shell used.

 

The Hs129B has the MK101 and the MK103, which also decimate, but they also have a much higher muzzle velocity than the MK108.

 

I do not believe the MK108 is in game yet, but I do fly shnokered a lot, so who knows.

 

Hitting something with an MK108 might be tough, but I will lay green money down on a single hit ending a fighter's sortie more times than not.

MK 108 Ammo, Gutless and Slow

 

 

 

Mk 103 Ammo: Very Strong and fast. It's like comparing a Pistol and a Rifle Round of the same Caliber

 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[ACG_KaiLae]

I'm sure that getting hit with a 30mm Mk 108 round will be a bad idea™. However, hitting someone with a weapon with a muzzle velocity that low will not be easy. Try shooting down a rapidly maneuvering fighter target with the LaGG-3 with the SH-37; that weapon has a higher muzzle velocity, so the 108 is even worse. It's not an easy thing to do, unless you're close. 

[von-Luck]

I was thinking the payload of the BK37 would be similar to the MK108. My though being the BK37 HE could be used as an indicator to the MK108. Not a great comparison admittedly but one I knew I could test.

 

This wouldn't be a great test but my (admittedly flawed) logic was if BK37 rounds had good affect the MK108 would share similar results on target. I understand the cannons are very different and muzzle velocity would be vastly different. I don't know what calculus the game uses to model damage or whether the superior velocity will play a roll in the total damage numbers specifically for HE rounds. As I said rather flawed logic but what can I say

 

 

von Luck

Edited October 16, 2017 by von-Luck

[Mac_Messer]

Oh yeah, I remember that. The MK 108 was completely worthless in IL2-1946... ...oh wait, it wasn't. It was a 1-shot wonderweapon.

Quite surprised reading such a troll post from you. It wasn`t a one shot weapon for most aircraft in the sim. To be sure you had to put at least two or three clean hits in for an enemy crate to go down. That is why online pilots didn`t spit those out one by one but in bursts of three - five shells at a time at point blank range. It did slice off wings with a good degrees deflect shot hit but targeting the fuselage was often without result. Most bombers such as Pe2 and mudmovers such as IL2 withstood at least a few hits before showing any sign of damage. The real life MK108 was not known for crippling an aircraft`s ability to fly, it was known to tear it apart.

I couldn`t count how many times I went in, got a burst and after a huge puff of smoke plane was still flying. With those types of planes hit I figured it was probably bad netcode. Though when a fighter like LaGG, Yak, La that got hit with it still flew and engaged me...something must have gone wrong there.

 

The only case in which I`d agree with you would have been a direct hit on the engine resulting in a big explosion 9,5 out of 10 times.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Mac_Messer

[Finkeren]

Quite surprised reading such a troll post from you. It wasn`t a one shot weapon for most aircraft in the sim. To be sure you had to put at least two or three clean hits in for an enemy crate to go down. That is why online pilots didn`t spit those out one by one but in bursts of three - five shells at a time at point blank range. It did slice off wings with a good degrees deflect shot hit but targeting the fuselage was often without result. Most bombers such as Pe2 and mudmovers such as IL2 withstood at least a few hits before showing any sign of damage. The real life MK108 was not known for crippling an aircraft`s ability to fly, it was known to tear it apart.

I couldn`t count how many times I went in, got a burst and after a huge puff of smoke plane was still flying. With those types of planes hit I figured it was probably bad netcode. Though when a fighter like LaGG, Yak, La that got hit with it still flew and engaged me...something must have gone wrong there.

 

The only case in which I`d agree with you would have been a direct hit on the engine resulting in a big explosion 9,5 out of 10 times.

Not trolling at all. My online experience with the MK 108 was very different from what you describe. Even heavy bombers fell after 1-2 hits from that weapon. Going up against one head on was sheer suicide.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

I'm with Finkeren, the MK108 was a wonder weapon in 1946. I used to take a G-6 With them for fun in those airquake servers (Skies of Fire or something). A single hit would absolutely end whatever was on the of it, that was an easy kill machine.

[LukeFF]

 

 

it could be made in il2 ... german 20mm vs russian planes ^^

 

For goodness sake, give it a rest already.  You don't have to like the way the German 20 mm cannon may be modeled, but you don't need to spam every other topic with a comment about it.  

 

 

Probably. In any case it was completely bad for whatever reason.

 

IIRC it was eventually discovered that the it was based on a G-6 flight-tested with gunpods.