Auto level on planes that never had it

[Herne]

In MP auto level is useful in all aircraft when you check the map. Because the map covers the whole screen and you have no physical feeling of the aircraft moving I find it quite easy to start drifting one way or another without knowing it. I figure in real life through a combination of knees, peripheral vision and physical sensation this wouldn't happen. It can be disastrous if you are in close formation or flying low and drift just a few degrees.

 

If you're lost it can require quite a lot of map time to find yourself, particularly near Moscow!

 

I'm not bothered if people want to run away on it, I'm generally not interested in destroying them at that point, the objective has been achieved (in a sense).

 

And if some one is chasing me I figure they're normally close enough that flying straight for them just lets then train their aim on me, and, there's probably 10 other things I should worry about before auto level anyway.

 

Not forgetting if you want to jump into a gunner position as well of course.

 

In VR it doesn't quite fill your vision, and you can still turn your head to look left and right, while the map stays where it was covering the gun sight view. Does that work the same with TrackIR ?

 

I ask, because in VR at least, it's relatively easy to fly manually and map read at the same time

Edited September 28, 2017 by =11=herne

[LLv34_Temuri]

Does that work the same with TrackIR ?

No.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

In the end, this is just a game. Anyone who expects a game to not have at least a few game features is delusional.

[216th_Peterla]

Real aircraft didn't have keyboards either, or small plastic sticks that could be deflected with a single finger...or push button startup, or cozy soft office chairs...shall I go on?

I agree with the above statement. It's a feature that helps the gamer and doesn't take any advantage. You flight faster without autolevel and a properly trimmed aircraft.

[LukeFF]

Oh my god.

 

If you didn't get him by the time he felt safe enough to throw on auto-level; you weren't going to get him anyways.

 

Get the F outta here. :D

Exactly

[dburne]

Dang after reading this thread I am going to have to assign auto-level to my stick and give it a try lol...

[PatrickAWlson]

Playing SP I use it all the time with time compression.  Sometimes I don't have or don't want to take 40 minutes to fly a mission.  If it is somehow a big advantage in MP then find a way to disable it on expert servers.  I always thought that fly straight and level put the plane in cruise, so it seems to me it would only get you killed.

[curiousGamblerr]

More difficult does not mean more realistic.

 

"But if the planes didn't have it, it's not realistic!" - Wrong. Real pilots can feel movement, they can check a map and fly level at the same time without a problem. With auto level, so can we, so it actually makes the game more realistic in a roundabout way.

 

Besides the fact that sometimes I forget to refill my whiskey glass before taking off...

 

All these benefits for no unfrair advantage? Yeah, I'd be pissed if they removed it. But they won't, so I'm not worried.

[Talisman]

I would rather not see auto pilot available in the most difficult (full real ?) settings for aircraft that did not have it historically.  To me, it seems a bit strange (two faced) for people to be seeking high levels of flight model and historical accuracy and then wanting to use unrealistic, not accurate and not historical auto pilot.  I think it is a nice crutch for noob fighter pilots in lower realistic settings and can see why some people might like it, but for full real competitive flying on MP I would rather not see it available, unless historically accurate for the aircraft type.

For example, would I want rudder trim on the Yak, when in real life it did not have rudder trim?  No, I would not.  So I would not want auto pilot on an aircraft that did not have it.  Simple as that IMHO.

I agree the navigation map is not easy to use in full real mode, but I don't use that as an excuse to use auto pilot when flying aircraft that do/did not have auto pilot in real life.  I have trained myself to use the map and chat bar without using auto pilot; in fact, I totally ignore the auto pilot for aircraft that did not have it.  Happy to see none historical auto pilot available for those that need it, but would rather not see it available at the highest realistic setting (full real).

As for the map covering the screen, I thing we should be able to size the map smaller if we want by dragging the edges in and out with the mouse.

 

P.S.  Off line, do want we want, auto pilot or even pause the game with the pause button.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited September 29, 2017 by 56RAF_Talisman

[Stig]

 

 

Besides the fact that sometimes I forget to refill my whiskey glass before taking off...

 

You could just drink from the bottle. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I remember my team mate plunge into ground from 4k whole time studied map because he was sure he did turn on auto pilot LOL

[BraveSirRobin]

I think it is a nice crutch for noob fighter pilots in lower realistic settings and can see why some people might like it, but for full real competitive flying on MP I would rather not see it available

So all these years I spent practicing tactics and gunnery I really should have worked on making sure I took off with enough beer to last the flight and suppressing the need to pee?

[Talisman]

So all these years I spent practicing tactics and gunnery I really should have worked on making sure I took off with enough beer to last the flight and suppressing the need to pee?

Drinking and flying sounds like one of those life-style choices to me, LOL.  Just drinking tea stresses my bladder, especially at my age.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

[Jade_Monkey]

Pee in your teacup, and get a boost in immersion. Win-win!!

[Talisman]

Pee in your teacup, and get a boost in immersion. Win-win!!

A tea cup in the cockpit would not be historically realistic, LOL.  Besides, I drink tea beforehand, not during flying. 

I would need auto level/pilot to go and get a tea cup, so that would be absolutely out of the question, hehe.

 

Come on you pilots, auto level/pilot is just not hard core; in your heart you know its a bit soft, LOL.  You can cope without it.  Hold your water like a real pilot.

And remember that old saying, prior planning prevents piss-poor performance.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

[Talisman]

Not everyone who likes to fly on the Expert servers is 'full real competitive', some of us still have to stop the baby biting the dog, pick the trackIR clip up off the floor, answer the door, get the bread out the oven, get a beer, speak to the wife etc. or just simply fly for fun and not feel everything is spoilt by 10 seconds of auto level, or that if someone somehow did manage to escape by using it, it isn't the end of the world.

 

Good for you if you've trained yourself to be able to chat/use the map and fly level, but there are some aircraft that I simply can't let go of the stick no matter how I trim them without the risk of rolling slowly into the ground or similar.

 

(NB. I'm talking about auto-level not auto-pilot, I don't think I even have the latter mapped.)

Might be a good reason for allowing the server owner to be able to make the choice whether or not to activate historically unrealistic auto level/pilot.

 

Just to draw a comparison.  RPK-10 is historically correct and accurate, but do you know of any MP servers that activate it on their maps?  I have yet to find a MP server that replicates RPK-10, which was used in real life, but we have historically incorrect auto level/pilot on all MP servers.  Some things in life appear to me to be the wrong way around, or as the saying goes, 'arse about face', LOL.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited September 29, 2017 by 56RAF_Talisman

[216th_Peterla]

Removing auto level will contribute to upset people and will add nothing but trouble to the devs. Could be not hard core as some said but you are in a computer anyway. To set up as server related option doesn't sounda bad idea but I still prefer it untouched.

Regards

[FuriousMeow]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen suggested for computer software that people play in their spare time with other real life things going on around them that may need their immediate attention.

[dburne]

I am glad I saw this thread, assigned auto-level to a button on my stick, find it coming in handy for some of those long ingress and egress portions of my PWCG campaign flights. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by dburne

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

I have auto level assigned to a button on the throttle portion of my hotas.

 

Removing auto level is insane, some of us have kids, girlfriends, wives, friends, jobs we work at from home, pets, and countless other distractions that require us to step away from the sometimes hour long flights we engage in online and offline.

 

Historically, the pilots flying these missions didn't have a hungry kid that needed feeding halfway to their objective, in real life many of us do.

 

If you want to go full real and not use auto level, that's your prerogative. Most of us don't have the luxury of spending hours in front of our computers, distraction free and so auto level is not just an important feature but a necessity.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Y-29.Sulaco

[Sokol1]

 

 

...not using autolevel in any aircraft let alone aircraft that didn't historically have it

 

I guess that real Pe-2 don't have any kind of autopilot or autolevel.

 

Thing is that made level bombing without this aid is not impossible, but highly frustranting = CloD Blenheim pre TF patches.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Sokol1

[busdriver]

To me, it seems a bit strange (two faced) for people to be seeking high levels of flight model and historical accuracy and then wanting to use unrealistic, not accurate and not historical auto pilot.  I think it is a nice crutch for noob fighter pilots in lower realistic settings and can see why some people might like it...

 

This former RL fighter pilot loves the auto-level feature whilst sitting in a comfy chair at 1G in front of a monitor. Don't get me started on my love affair with the Pause feature...to die for! 

[II./JG77_Spaz]

There is something thats getting overlooked here. And again, this is just something to mention. Don't want to trigger anyone. One of the bigger issues with it is when your flying with your squadron. I'll give an example for me personally. A squad mate and I were in 109's flying a CAP mission. My squad mate was flying lead and as we were on a full real server, he was going back and forth a lot to his map and was engaging auto level for a big portion of the flight. This mission was a very quiet one, nothing happened, but as we were flying back I was startled when my squad mate called out his fuel and said he had over 100 liters while I looked down to see I had about 30-40 liters. I should add that we keep our throttles the same for the entire flight. We call out ATA for climbing, cruise, etc. So the only thing I could contribute that difference to was auto level. Each time you move the stick up or down your increasing your flight time/length to your destination. (BTW, don't quote me on the exact numbers for fuel differences but you get the idea, it was enough to make a big difference)

 

This is by no means anything to start a flame fest over, or even be demeaning towards it. The whole point of having a forum is to discuss and post. And it was never about removing the feature entirely. It was about maybe limiting it to single player and or planes that had it. Just a thought and suggestion. For those of you that disagree thats your prerogative. And that's cool. But it doesn't mean it can't be mentioned. Possibly this could be something implemented in the distant future.

 

The notion of needing to get up and leave the game to come back while playing multiplayer is a little silly to me. I totally get having kids, or stuff you need to leave to do but the notion that you should be able to leave and come back with everything the way you left it is ludicrous. This is multiplayer, online, there is no pause.

 

Thanks for the constructive input.

Edited September 30, 2017 by RavN_c4nucK

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Wingmen always spend more fuel, that's basic mission planning since formation flying is finnicky.

[II./JG77_Spaz]

This is very true. Dead on, but throwing auto level into the mix with that increases it more than most realize. Also we don't formation fly. At least not close. We use a very loose "formation", which cuts down on the trouble of throwing your throttle back and forth and all that jazz that comes with trying to fly close.

Edited September 30, 2017 by RavN_c4nucK

[BraveSirRobin]

but throwing auto level into the mix with that increases it more than most realize.

Or flying wing uses more fuel than you realize. Do you have any evidence at all that the fuel situation would be any different if your lead never used auto level?

 

Also, you probably should not have a noob flying lead.

[curiousGamblerr]

...

 

Also, you probably should not have a noob flying lead.

 

?

[BraveSirRobin]

?

 

 

I think it is a nice crutch for noob fighter pilots in lower realistic settings and can see why some people might like it,

56RAF_Talisman

[Lusekofte]

This simulator is the best in everything except from control interfaces and such things. The Auto level has always annoyed me, in this COD is much better. May not be historical accurate, but it at least simulate a primitive autopilot. And the simplified bomb aimer interface.

 

But when it comes to control interface, then it all must be very authentic. Ending up with 3 times more settings than needed. If you set mixture on HS 129 it interfere with the mixture settings on PE 2, rendering you to make new settings for every plane every time you want to fly them.

Apart from this this game is the best 

[BraveSirRobin]

The Auto level has always annoyed me, in this COD is much better.

 

Does CoD have a form of auto-level now?

[Lusekofte]

It have Autopilot on some planes, The Blenheim got a German type autopilot modded into it. JU 88 , BF 110 , HE 111, Blenheim got it, the rest is hands on flying. Some sort of aid should be considered in multicrew planes, since the workload for all crew is on one pilot and AI gunners

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

Does CoD have a form of auto-level now? 0 Quote MultiQuote

It has an auto rudder feature. 

[Talisman]

This thread has certainly served to alert me and perhaps others, to this auto level/pilot lark.  Other combat flight sims I fly don't have it, apart from historical accuracy, dependant on aircraft type; so I had totally ignored this feature in BoX as an aid for the noob or single player off-line PC pilot, like the pause button. (please don't read this as an insult, as this is sincerely how I viewed it). 

Tonight, I flew a Pe2 on MP and even though I was using the same engine and aircraft settings as my lead, in level flight on the same heading, he pulls away from me if he puts this auto level/pilot thingy on.  The wingman always uses more fuel and has to manoeuvre etc, but if the leader uses this auto level/pilot thing the wingman is at even more of a disadvantage.  I think I can now see how this auto level/pilot thing could be used by turning it on and off to meet the situation as a speed exploit in the competitive combat MP environment, including with fighters (extending etc).

 

Clearly the OP has made a good point in raising this issue and I am grateful for that.  There would appear to be perhaps unintended consequences to this crutch, flight aid or app thing named auto level in the game.  I shall sill not use it, but I thank the OP for raising the issue and alerting me to what is going on around me with some other PC pilots in the on-line competitive MP environment. 

 

From my perspective, I am now even more convinced that this auto level/pilot feature for all aircraft types should have no place in the expert highest level on-line competitive MP servers.  However, I can see that I will just have to put up with it if I want to continue with BoX, even though in my eyes the integrity of this flight sim has just dropped a notch and this issue is always going to be a niggle in the back of my mind; particularly when comparing quality of flight sim immersion and realism with other flight sim products. 

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

Perhaps I take my flight simulation a bit too seriously, but I think this auto level pilot feature is in danger of making a mockery in terms of the expert setting.  Are we sure that this feature can't be turned off at the discretion of the on-line server operator, particularly server side?

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Perhaps I take my flight simulation a bit too seriously, but I think this auto level pilot feature is in danger of making a mockery in terms of the expert setting.  Are we sure that this feature can't be turned off at the discretion of the on-line server operator, particularly server side?

I honestly don't see how having auto level in a high intensity combat situation can conceivably help you gain any real advantage, if you are flying level you are just as likely to get shot down. 

 

One further point to make on multi crew aircraft, If you didn't have an auto level function it would be pointless to fly bombers.       

Edited September 30, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Pardon the expletive but the competitive multiplayer mentality wanks off itself to an unbelievably degree.

 

The vast majority of online players are just regular people trying to get a good time, yet there's always that half a dozen who feel that either they're entitled to disable a useful feature for others to make sure their imaginary arena is EXPERT enough to their tastes or use these features to get some kind of competitive advantage.

 

There is no reason to remove a useful feature that almost all players use just to address the self-indulging minority. Some people will game the game, but they're such an insignificant portion that user friendliness shan't be compromised over small groups of people. What a useless debate this is.

[Gambit21]

Perhaps I take my flight simulation a bit too seriously, but I think this auto level pilot feature is in danger of making a mockery in terms of the expert setting.  Are we sure that this feature can't be turned off at the discretion of the on-line server operator, particularly server side?

 

With respect - get over it.

Real pilots didn't have to deal with their baby waking up, the doorbell ringing, the kids fighting, a phone call, the wife or girlfriend interrupting with (insert one of a thousand reasons the lady will interrupt)

realizing you forgot to feed the dog...and on...and on.

 

We are grown men (for the most part) sitting at a computer with real life going on around us.

[Sokol1]

Does CoD have a form of auto-level now?

 

German planes came with that "Kurssteureung"  autopilot with 2 modes. 

 

1 - Autopilot take control of rudder and keep the heading diffined in Course Setter - allow pilot keep controlling aileron/elevator for climb or set trim for this.

 

2 - Autopilot take control of rudder and keep elevator and aileron for level flight - this mode allow do bombing run.

This mode is somewhat bugged with a up/down oscillation if plane is not perfectly balanced on trim, flaps, RPM before engaged this mode.

Allow bombardier/pilot do lateral corrections for drop bombs (like in BoS autolevel).

 

Blenheim and Br.20 don't have IRL any kind of autopilot, but since Blenheim refuse fly straight (has only rudder and elevator trim) due CloD "peculiarities" became extreme difficult for average pilots do level bombing with this plane.

TF adapt as workaround the German Kurssteureung functions - minus the pre-definition of course in Course Setter - in Blenheim and Br.20, this have a issue with the Avio Compressori Garelli RE ( air compressor) needed to keep their Slave Compass stabilized, turn ON this compressor shake the plane in excessive way.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Sokol1

[Guest deleted@30725]

I though the bombers went straight and level when you went to the bomb sight

[Plurp]

Br 20 slaved compass now runs off an engine, it no longer needs the compressor.

 

German planes came with that "Kurssteureung" autopilot with 2 modes.

 

1 - Autopilot take control of rudder and keep the heading diffined in Course Setter - allow pilot keep controlling aileron/elevator for climb or set trim for this.

 

2 - Autopilot take control of rudder and keep elevator and aileron for level flight - this mode allow do bombing run.

This mode is somewhat bugged with a up/down oscillation if plane is not perfectly balanced on trim, flaps, RPM before engaged this mode.

Allow bombardier/pilot do lateral corrections for drop bombs (like in BoS autolevel).

 

Blenheim and Br.20 don't have IRL any kind of autopilot, but since Blenheim refuse fly straight (has only rudder and elevator trim) due CloD "peculiarities" became extreme difficult for average pilots do level bombing with this plane.

TF adapt as workaround the German Kurssteureung functions - minus the pre-definition of course in Course Setter - in Blenheim and Br.20, this have a issue with the Avio Compressori Garelli RE ( air compressor) needed to keep their Slave Compass stabilized, turn ON this compressor shake the plane in excessive way.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Beedo

[II./JG77_Spaz]

For those that have contributed respectfully without any nudge towards skill (or lack there of) it has been much appreciated. I enjoy the back and forth banter of a discussion regarding this feature. And this was ALL it was meant to be people. Some of us want the sim as real as possible. Some of us just want a good time with moderate realism. Thats cool. Differences is what makes us great. But don't bash others for politely speaking out what they feel about it.

 

To be completely honest, I can think of a scenario or two where the auto level feature can give you a competitive edge in a fight. Especially when your running. But I see other's point that if it comes down to an auto level feature that wins a fight you did much more wrong long before it got to that point.

 

The devs have done a great job. Pre v2.012c FM/DM fixes had me to the point of never wanting to play the sim again tbh. But when 2.012 dropped I was so excited. The devs really stepped up and made a lot of things right. I just want to get that out there. Again, would be nice if this could be an option for multiplayer servers for hardcore full real events sometime down the line. Like wayyy down the line. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by RavN_c4nucK