Auto level on planes that never had it

[II./JG77_Spaz]

Just as the title says. I understand that is a nice feature that was implemented; I imagine it was meant for single player. But when we play online I have noticed and know of players that use auto level too often. Normally I would consider this a preference thing and not bat an eye. But at the end of the day if you have an enemy running away from you and they throw on auto level, they start to pull away from you because they are truly flying a straight line. Any way this can be disabled?

[Jade_Monkey]

I get your point but if someone gets away from you by using autolevel you are doing something wrong.

[ShamrockOneFive]

This is the one "gamey" feature I'd like left alone. I use auto level a fair bit to cover long distances (and read on my iPad if its really long!).

 

I can't say its ever been helpful to use it to get away in level flight... it leaves you far too vulnerable. Any aircraft even at the extreme end of gun range flying that straight and that level is asking to be hit.

[unreasonable]

Just as the title says. I understand that is a nice feature that was implemented; I imagine it was meant for single player. But when we play online I have noticed and know of players that use auto level too often. Normally I would consider this a preference thing and not bat an eye. But at the end of the day if you have an enemy running away from you and they throw on auto level, they start to pull away from you because they are truly flying a straight line. Any way this can be disabled?

 

Not sure why you would even want it disabled in this case, an auto leveled plane is the easiest possible target.

 

Auto-level is essential in SP, not just in play, but also for flight testing and sometimes filming purposes. So if it is to be disabled, it would have to be some kind of server option for MP only.

[BraveSirRobin]

 if you have an enemy running away from you and they throw on auto level, they start to pull away from you because they are truly flying a straight line. 

 

There is an easy solution to this problem.  Use auto-level to catch them.

[Boaty-McBoatface]

One of the best features of this sim. No way it can go; it adds to so many facets of the experience.

 

If one can't win a fight because of auto level then they need to rethink the fight.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Boaty_McBoatFace

[JaffaCake]

I'd uninstall this game pretty much on the spot if my fav aircraft did not have auto-level and was forced to do without.

 

I am not even going to try to imagine all of the cramps the LW pilots would get from having to rudder the 109 constantly (and oh god the yaw twist sticks must suck during the climb too)

[Herne]

when I'm at the stick, I will use trim over auto level all the time. However, if I need to go AFK for real world reasons auto level is the obvious solution, especially in multiplayer environments

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Level bombing without auto level would be difficult

[IRRE_Centx]

Remove auto-level from MP?

Then fly a He111/Ju88/Pe2 and try a level-bombing run without auto-level.

 

Have fun!

[JtD]

These aircraft had auto-level. If you read the topic headline (is that really too much to ask?), you'll see that this never was the question.

 

I think since it is both a question of realism and gameplay helping it would best be implemented as a difficulty option. Not as a given under all circumstances. Personally I need it for testing, but not for playing. I don't really fly straight and level in fighters when I play.

[Finkeren]

For planes that had no system like this I'd like to see this feature removed from expert difficulty.

 

For "normal" I think it's a great tool.

[pilotpierre]

For planes that had no system like this I'd like to see this feature removed from expert difficulty.

For "normal" I think it's a great tool.

For the first time in the many years we have both been on these forums, I vehemently disagree with you on this one. If people don't like it just don't bloody well use it.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Some "futures" could work only in SP like time scale why no auto level in mp use trimms instead - no piss during flight) Auto level primary was invented for lessen hand stress of WW1 Rise of Flight era aeroplanes where to level flight you have to push joystick constantly forward (no trimms on most)and because in two seaters planes only pilot could use bomb sight. I would like to have climbing auto pilot if that mechanical tools vere used in some WW2 era planes. Level auto pilot is just rubber chock simulator

Edited September 27, 2017 by 307_Tomcat

[JaffaCake]

Actually in hindsight... if Auto-level is ever removed I'll just end up scripting an auto-trim for the JS. Click the button - remember the current JS values - zero JS for 1 second forcefully (letting the pilot zero the JS after clicking the button), resume to feed JS coordinates + offset that you remembered. War thunder has this feature in the game even.

 

If the devs decide to implement some way to prevent me from doing it I'll just do it in hardware - raspberry pi can act as a JS proxy to read and feed the values with minimal delay (if not r-pi with RTOS then a mcu to do the same)...

 

Just depends on how much effort the game is worth spending

Edited September 27, 2017 by JaffaCake

[IRRE_Centx]

These aircraft had auto-level. If you read the topic headline (is that really too much to ask?), you'll see that this never was the question.

 

Oh right, read too fast and forgot about the headline. My bad on this one.

[Jade_Monkey]

If people don't like it just don't bloody well use it.

Agreed! If you really want immersion then dont use these features.

Some people have to go to the bathroom, take a call or get a coffee. Thats why its a game/sim and not a real plane.

 

You could argue that pausing the game in SP is also unrealistic... Are we going to remove that feature as well?

 

I dont mind if they make it optional for hardcore servers, but i probably wont visit them much.

[Pict]

 

I dont mind if they make it optional for hardcore servers

 

I think this makes sense, otherwise they can hardly be called hardcore

[Retrofly]

Have fun reading the map without it.

 

Navigating is already hard enough on expert, but now you want me to wrestle with the plane at the same time? No thanks.

 

IRL you could glance a map and fly at the same time, hell you could have your face in the map and still "feel" that you are still level.

 

Maybe if they provided some kind of indicator while you were looking at your map, but to me the cons for removing it far outweigh the pro's.

[BraveSirRobin]

For planes that had no system like this I'd like to see this feature removed from expert difficulty.

For "normal" I think it's a great tool.

It's an even better tool if you have to go to the bathroom. Any server that got rid of auto level (if that option were available) would quickly empty.

[Finkeren]

It's an even better tool if you have to go to the bathroom. Any server that got rid of auto level (if that option were available) would quickly empty.

Just make yourself a nice "relief tube" like in the A-20C

[BraveSirRobin]

I suspect the A-20 driver still turned auto-level on while using the pee tube...

[sniperton]

Maybe if they provided some kind of indicator while you were looking at your map, but to me the cons for removing it far outweigh the pro's.

Honestly, I don't see the pro's. Whoever flies with auto level on is a sitting duck IMHO, there's no advantage gained from it in a combat situation, so I think it's pointless to remove a feature which provides some comfort on the price of putting its user into disadvantage. Anyone finding it unrealistic to use auto level on his long way to the combat area is at liberties not to switch it on. WWII pilots didn't fly combat in a family house with wife and children and telephone calls and whatever we have to deal with when sitting in the living room with a funny thing on our head.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

In a MP combat situation, what possible advantage could a player have over anyone else by hitting auto level? 

[Rolling_Thunder]

I had no idea about this. I thought it was just a gamey feature at the start of a qmb. I had no idea it was controlable. That's awesome. I need to assign a button asap

[unreasonable]

I had no idea about this. I thought it was just a gamey feature at the start of a qmb. I had no idea it was controlable. That's awesome. I need to assign a button asap

 

There is a default (forgotten what), but try assigning the same button that you use for your briefing map in addition. The you call up the map and turn on auto-level at the same time, and press again to turn off map and auto level.  It works, provided you are roughly straight and level when you press the button.

 

Auto level also helpful in SP for air starts, since you have a lot to do - adjust trim, radiators, prop, throttle - all while trying to stay in formation.  One reason I do not much like air starts, but sometimes they have to be done.

[Finkeren]

In a MP combat situation, what possible advantage could a player have over anyone else by hitting auto level?

Exactly precise level flight which allows for higher speed in a pursuit situation.

 

Mostly it's a benefit for level bombers though.

[AndyJWest]

In a MP combat situation, what possible advantage could a player have over anyone else by hitting auto level? 

 

From the OP:

 

... they throw on auto level, they start to pull away from you because they are truly flying a straight line...

 

Well yes, there may well be a marginal speed advantage over using auto level to fly dead straight and level rather than trying to do it yourself. Except that flying dead straight and level in combat would seem about as sensible as towing a banner saying 'shoot me'. The assumption seems to me to be that the advantage you gain through precise flying is going to negate the risks. But will it? Unless you are totally daft, you will ensure you are well out of range before engaging auto level, and at that point, any differences between aircraft performance and between energy states are going to be what matters in practice. At least, that's the way I see it, unless there is something seriously wrong with the way the flight model works in auto level mode. It would be possible to test this I suppose: on a MP map (icons on), two players form up in line astern formation, matching power settings, and then the front one engages auto level. In theory, the rear one is going to fall behind, but I'd be very surprised if the loss of speed was enough to matter in the context of combat between dissimilar aircraft. And all this assumes that flying level, rather than diving or climbing away is the best escape option. 

[Pict]

WWII pilots didn't fly combat in a family house with wife and children and telephone calls and whatever we have to deal with when sitting in the living room with a funny thing on our head.

 

Now that is hardcore

 

You well and truly need the auto leveler such an environment, you made me smile too as I can see myself in a similar setting, thanks

 

May need to change it's name from -auto leveler- to -online pause button if you dare-

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Pedantry, equivalent to the people advocating to do away with the so-called HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator). We're just grown ups with a bit of money to spare pretending to be aces in pixel world, not actual virtual badasses that defy death. We're by definition a silly bunch so these silly solutions like auto-level and HUD are fitting of our reality.

 

Auto-level is extremely important since we unlike actual pilots might need to leave our pretend cockpits for a moment, and even when inside it we can't just trap the stick between our knees to make it easy on the hands while fiddling with the map or flying a long route.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Auto level to escape, hmm but for sure not when distances are below good snap shot btw running on auto level you can still roll by CTR +Z an X. Personally I never did try to escape on auto so how big difference it would have I don't know.

[[CPT]CptJackSparrow]

Doesn't auto stab put her into a slightly uncoordinated state?

[Gambit21]

Real aircraft didn't have keyboards either, or small plastic sticks that could be deflected with a single finger...or push button startup, or cozy soft office chairs...shall I go on?

[Pict]

equivalent to the people advocating to do away with the so-called HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator).

 

I think that's a slightly different story, while I don't think either of them should be "done away with" I don't see them as the same

 

What anyone does offline is up to them.

 

From an online point of view the auto wing leveler is a necessary temporary feature that can be used like an online pause button for instance

 

For me, the so-called HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator) should be off in any "full real" or "hardcore" online environment as it's not necessary. We have beautiful functional cockpits that render it unnecessary. And those who use this HUD have better situational awareness than those who don't

 

Anyhow the so-called HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator) does not properly translate to the gauges in the pit so it's not so good.

 

I've yet to find a server without this so-called HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator), but I'd like too

[sniperton]

For me, the so-called HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator) should be off in any "full real" or "hardcore" online environment as it's not necessary. We have beautiful functional cockpits that render it unnecessary. And those who use this HUD have better situational awareness than those who don't

Sure, but in some planes it's too easy to cook the engine if you don't have the technochat info. Similarly, if you use buttons instead of a slider for RPM control and the like, you can go completely lost with your settings without some visual feedback. It's a bit like the gear shift in a car, in RL it's palpable and you don't need to look at it at all, but in a computer simulation game you have to see somehow what you cannot feel with your body. I, too, dislike the HUD, but I wish it could be made customizable as suggested in another thread.

[Pict]

Sure, but in some planes it's too easy to cook the engine if you don't have the technochat info. Similarly, if you use buttons instead of a slider for RPM control and the like, you can go completely lost with your settings without some visual feedback.

 

So cook your engine a few times offline till you get the hang of it...that's what I did and I use buttons instead of slider for RPM control too...

 

The pit gauges and levers are visual feedback, no? But they don't paint a big thermometer sign in the sky warning of pending engine overheat, do they

 

Or just fly on a server that allows the HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator)...there is no shortage of them, in fact if you can find one that doesn't let me know

 

I find it far more rewarding to use the pit for everything, including bomb / rocket selection & ripple. The dev team put a whole lot of effort in to make it available and they did a great job too, why not at least give it a try?, it's not that difficult

 

Anyhow I just didn't think the auto leveler and the HUD (aka lever percentage and compass indicator) should be thrown in the same bag and from what you say there is another topic where it can be discussed 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Pict

[Livai]

What, the auto level thing on planes that never had it before? Yeah, the auto level thing. Yeah, it happens. Well some having a hard time concentrating without the auto level thing on planes over the three decades. In fact, it's for them. And no, you can't escape from it.

[II./JG77_Spaz]

Wow this thread blew up. Just meant to bring up a discussion. Not a flame fest or question of skill. Just something to think of and bring about a discussion. As it has succeeded.

 

I was not suggesting that we remove auto level completely. I was more bringing it up as an issue because its implemented as an overall key bind to be used universally rather than if the plane actually had it or not. I'm also very well aware that if an opponent escapes you using auto level your doing something wrong. Bang on right with that one. It was only brought up to mention the "stack" of an advantage that could potentially happen. Air combat is about being aware of your opponents mistakes and stacking up the right BFM on your part. I prefer and choose not to use it in planes that never had it. So bombers/transports only. But when I fly with others there are times when your spending twice as much fuel trying to keep up because your not flying as straight and level as a computer could so your powering through using throttle. Anyway, obviously the simple solution would be to just have the people tell you if they have engaged auto level. 

 

I guess at the end of the day everyone is looking for a different levels of realism. There is no universal standard for it. Some of us what an experience as real as possible while others are willing to sacrifice realism for other compromises. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by RavN_c4nucK

[DD_Perfesser]

German fighters are faster than Soviet planes at almost every altitude. Start at an equal energy state, get the trim right and they should just walk away (slowly). Pilots, with their skilled (or lack of) inputs can make the difference.

Auto level is handy for testing as you have a "constant" without pilot input variables. Nice for checking the effect of ordinance, rads, fuel burn and the like.

 

In multiplayer, if it didn't have an autopilot IRL, it shouldn't have one here either.

Edited September 27, 2017 by DD_Perfesser

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Oh my god.

 

If you didn't get him by the time he felt safe enough to throw on auto-level; you weren't going to get him anyways.

 

Get the F outta here. :D

Edited September 27, 2017 by hrafnkolbrandr