Discussion: How to improve the HUD?

[Jantzen]

Hello folks,

 

I have one question: are you happy with the current UI or are things that you'd like to be changed?

 

For example, I would like to have only Techical Messages about anything I change, for example Radiator or Throttle. I would like them to be similar to RoF or Cliffs, where they represent little levers.

 

I do not really like the notification "Engine damaged" or "Temperature too hot". They take away the need to actually check out what is happening with your plane and to discover certain hits on your plane yourself, like a blown off trim or such.

 

Anyway, that was my input. What is yours?

 

Cheers

J

[Beazil]

Personally I find the impact of the hud to be most dramatic in vr. It more than halves my frame rate. When in non vr triple screen hud on or off makes little difference

Edited September 15, 2017 by Beazil

[dburne]

I have gotten to where I rarely use the HUD, primarily because I fly VR now and just too big a hit on performance.

[19//Moach]

I find that given the current arcade-style engine models, it is very much impractical to fly without technochat enabled....

 

this is very unsatisfactory, as I would much rather not have to rely on non-cockpit cues to fly my airplane. 

 

 

but as long as engine instruments such as fuel/oil pressure are merely cosmetic props, technochat has be enabled to prevent the very real possibility of exceeding engine self-destruction timers just from having the throttle a hair past maximum continuous...  

 

 

*sigh*  the inadequacy of this implementation never fails to befuddle me... in such an attentively crafted simulation series, that engine behavior should be so grossly derelicted is a lapse most difficult to ignore

 

 

 

 

 

anyways, I would very much like being able to select a less verbose level for technochat - one that omits trivia such as exact axis percentages, but still displays critical information such as "engine modes" (until a better model comes along) and bomb/rocket settings and such...

 

also, it would be tremendously beneficial to have an option for a smaller font for the HUD... the current size is much too large and makes for an unnecessary amount of clutter on the screen

 

 

 

I also strongly believe that the HUD compass should NOT be displayed in expert mode, as there is no reason why heading should be "magically known" while altitude and airspeed require checking instruments - this feature should be toggled together with the rest of the readouts according to difficulty settings

 

 

another desirable feature -- on planes such as the IL2, MiG and P40, where fuel mixture is not directly controlled by the pilot, it would be more useful to have technochat display messages such as "mix: auto-rich" and "mix: auto-lean" instead of raw% 

Edited September 15, 2017 by 19//Moach

[Guest deleted@30725]

Press H - Solves everything.

 

You can use the temp gauges to work out if the engine is going to overheat and after a time you remember if you set your rads open or closed and by how much. The map will retain target markers, but you will have to learn to navigate the maps by landmarks and location. Most of the other gauges do stuff like speed and alt. Fuel level seems to work, but I've yet to run out of fuel in a mission and I can't re-fuel in this game so not as much an issue.

 

The last thing I want to see when playing the game is some message that my engine is running at 50% throttle or my flaps are down because I can look at the markers on the wings or the dial in the pit or feel the plane is wrong. Can't see any reason why I want to press H to turn the hud on. If I want the game in easy mode I'm not in the mood so I don't play and do something else.

Edited September 15, 2017 by deleted@30725

[OrLoK]

I have gotten to where I rarely use the HUD, primarily because I fly VR now and just too big a hit on performance.

Ditto but i do peek at it when messages ping.

[Beazil]

Press H - Solves everything.

 

 

Orly?  

 

Because German or Russian are not native tounges for me, I like having the chat enabled to a degree - ie: so I have a clue who's talking and what about - also useful for multiplayer.  I find myself constantly switching on and off HUD for this reason, and have it mapped to a handy toggle switch for VR flying.  But this is not ideal.

 

Like you, I prefer to have it off, but sometimes I find it necessary.  I'd love to see some community mods where, for example, accented English could be used instead of the native language, but right now we have no such mods available.  I also like knowing when I'm at a certain throttle threshold (particularly valuable in the FW) to get the most out of my engine without over heating.  Likewise, I like knowing where my flaps are, radiators, etc.

 

But you make some good points, and I'm sure many of the hardcore guys do it as you do.  But with VR being what it is (not quite perfect) I like having some information available to me on the fly.  Pardon the pun.  S!

[19//Moach]

Press H - Solves everything.

 

You can use the temp gauges to work out if the engine is going to overheat and after a time you remember if you set your rads open or closed and by how much. The map will retain target markers, but you will have to learn to navigate the maps by landmarks and location. Most of the other gauges do stuff like speed and alt. Fuel level seems to work, but I've yet to run out of fuel in a mission and I can't re-fuel in this game so not as much an issue.

 

The last thing I want to see when playing the game is some message that my engine is running at 50% throttle or my flaps are down because I can look at the markers on the wings or the dial in the pit or feel the plane is wrong. Can't see any reason why I want to press H to turn the hud on. If I want the game in easy mode I'm not in the mood so I don't play and do something else.

 

 

unfortunately, temperatures do not tell you that your engine is running dangerously hard, nor will there be any signs of trouble as any other cues (no noise, no shaking) before your engine spontaneously start gushing a thick plume of black and brown

 

there are timers in place, see... these are very crude implementations of engine limits, and these timers are ticking whenever an "engine mode" icon is shown.  they will slowly rewind when running at "continuous mode" but their effect has no relation to engine temperatures (overheat causes damage, but independently of this)

 

 

alas, there is no cue besides technochat to determine exactly when the death-clock is ticking.... I have seen many occasions when players with huds disabled inadvertently killed their own engines by running them only 1~2% above maximum continuous setting, misled by the lo-fi nature of WW2 "steam gauges" and by the small variations in engine power with airspeed

 

one particular case most recently, this happened to a player flying a spitfire.  his hud was off, and after a while flying with settings he judged safe, his engine suddenly burst and failed. and he was forced down - he then announced over TS, that he had been running at max continuous, or so he thought, for he had unknowingly entered "combat mode" by a very small amount, and this set the infamous timer against his engine

 

in planes like the P40, where damage occurs even more abruptly, and overheating is vastly mis-modelled, this kind of issue is all the more likely....

 

 

the cockpit also does not provide sufficient clues as to determine bomb and rocket settings without HUD messages.  these are largely abstracted implementations in most planes (cleverly done, really) but this makes it very impractical to fly without the hud, such that many wish there were a middle setting so that only these important items would show

 

 

my ideal technochat setting would have no hints and no axis percentages (throttle, rpm, whatnot) - but would display the usual engine warnings (sadly necessary) as well as bomb and rocket mode selections.

 

 

 

and I would very much like that to be in a smaller font

Edited September 16, 2017 by 19//Moach

[blitze]

With chat or comms text, it would be nice in mp to be able to turn off mp server connection notices.

 

They tend to clutter the screen when on busier servers. People saying hi is enough to know who is online.  There is also the server board screen if one wants to see who is flying.

 

Is is also a pity engine damage is not tied in to actual guages in cockpit. One day.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Well put Moach.

 

Until the gauges actually work properly (P40 temps, I'm talking about you), and the silly engine timer is dealt it's long needed messy death, the techno chat is a sad necessity.

 

Being able to configure it differently would be a big help.

[Beazil]

Not to mention the hud's abysmal effect on fps under vr.... Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

At least we have vr. Still the best SIM ever imho.

[unreasonable]

The obvious solution is simply to have every individual item separately checkable - on one screen. There should be under Settings a line saying Configure HUD. When you go to it you get the hud on screen, with a box next to every item. That box can be ticked on/off, or for those items with a variety of implementation choices, have a list of options for on/off next to the item on the screen that is being changed.  When you uncheck the box the HUD element on screen disappears to that you can see what your HUD will look like.  

 

(I should not have to go into the forum to find out that multiplayer messages actually means radio transmissions).  

 

Press Accept and you now have your HUD configuration - which nothing in the game should be able to change until the player himself changes these settings.

 

I try to use HUD off - but for some people this is simply not a viable way to play.

[Thad]

Unreasonable, that is a very reasonable and sensible suggestion. I agree, we should be able to configure our HUD display output to some degree.

[NETSCAPE]

As a AMD FX8350 Plebeian I can confirm that the HUD has a YUGE impact on performance. For example I might have 45 frames steady with a lot of stuff going on but if I turn off hud it's steady 60.

 

What's unfortunate is that for quality single player content HUD is essential. 

 

Sometimes I forget entirely that we have the feature to turn it off. And when I do it is so smooth I can imagine what it must be like to have an intel i9,000,000. 

[Herne]

unfortunately, temperatures do not tell you that your engine is running dangerously hard, nor will there be any signs of trouble as any other cues (no noise, no shaking) before your engine spontaneously start gushing a thick plume of black and brown

 

there are timers in place, see... these are very crude implementations of engine limits, and these timers are ticking whenever an "engine mode" icon is shown.  they will slowly rewind when running at "continuous mode" but their effect has no relation to engine temperatures (overheat causes damage, but independently of this)

 

 

alas, there is no cue besides technochat to determine exactly when the death-clock is ticking.... I have seen many occasions when players with huds disabled inadvertently killed their own engines by running them only 1~2% above maximum continuous setting, misled by the lo-fi nature of WW2 "steam gauges" and by the small variations in engine power with airspeed

 

one particular case most recently, this happened to a player flying a spitfire.  his hud was off, and after a while flying with settings he judged safe, his engine suddenly burst and failed. and he was forced down - he then announced over TS, that he had been running at max continuous, or so he thought, for he had unknowingly entered "combat mode" by a very small amount, and this set the infamous timer against his engine

 

in planes like the P40, where damage occurs even more abruptly, and overheating is vastly mis-modelled, this kind of issue is all the more likely....

 

 

the cockpit also does not provide sufficient clues as to determine bomb and rocket settings without HUD messages.  these are largely abstracted implementations in most planes (cleverly done, really) but this makes it very impractical to fly without the hud, such that many wish there were a middle setting so that only these important items would show

 

 

my ideal technochat setting would have no hints and no axis percentages (throttle, rpm, whatnot) - but would display the usual engine warnings (sadly necessary) as well as bomb and rocket mode selections.

 

 

 

and I would very much like that to be in a smaller font

 

 

I fly technochat off. Always check the the specification tab on the map briefing, for max continuous, max combat, and emergency settings. You don't need a visible queue other than your instruments.

 

In my experience if you go by the specification tab for the spit. and stick to 2600 rpm, and + 9 boost, it will fly like that all day. Technochat however may tell you that it is already in combat mode. 

 

You have to make a conscious decision to go with combat power or emergency settings. A quick look at your rpm or boost settings is your visual reminder.

Edited September 18, 2017 by =11=herne

[Mad_Mikhael]

Hello folks,

 

I have one question: are you happy with the current UI or are things that you'd like to be changed?

 

For example, I would like to have only Techical Messages about anything I change, for example Radiator or Throttle. I would like them to be similar to RoF or Cliffs, where they represent little levers.

 

I do not really like the notification "Engine damaged" or "Temperature too hot". They take away the need to actually check out what is happening with your plane and to discover certain hits on your plane yourself, like a blown off trim or such.

 

Anyway, that was my input. What is yours?

 

Cheers

J

Agree.

With technochat, BO is like flying WT   

 

 

I fly technochat off. Always check the the specification tab on the map briefing, for max continuous, max combat, and emergency settings (and water/oil temperature - Mad Mikhael). You don't need a visible queue other than your instruments.

 

In my experience if you go by the specification tab for the spit. and stick to 2600 rpm, and + 9 boost, it will fly like that all day. Technochat however may tell you that it is already in combat mode. 

 

You have to make a conscious decision to go with combat power or emergency settings. A quick look at your rpm or boost settings is your visual reminder.

Same.

[Herne]

Agree.

With technochat, BO is like flying WT   

 

 

Same.

Oh Hello !! 

 

You shot me down on TAW last night, I watched the replay of my poor IL2 wing falling off from a quick burst from your F4. My poor virtual pilot was captured.

 

Nicely done

[216th_Jordan]

The time limits are not as static as they may seem. The limits are the shortest time the engine can run at the maximum settings for the given mode. Example: Lets say P-40 39.5" at 3000 rpm max for combat mode will give you 5 minutes. If you run at 37" and 2600 rpm you will still be on combat mode (dont nail me to it, I dont got the correct settings in mind right now) you will have something like 10 minutes on average in that mode instead of 5 minutes. This applies to all planes. I honestly think the timers are not as bad as they are talked, I just think the engines are missing cues to correctly judge what is happening and that the engines just fail if you go over a certain setting.

 

 

Regarding HUD for me:

- MP chat history is very important

- something like a chat tab that is draggable and disconnected from the "... destroyed" messages would be very nice

- I would love to have the hud optimized to have a less severe effect on performace, even if that means to sacrifice some of its looks. 

- maptools would be great (I heard at least basic implementation is planned)

 

Apart from that I like unreasonables ideas.

[unreasonable]

As a AMD FX8350 Plebeian I can confirm that the HUD has a YUGE impact on performance. For example I might have 45 frames steady with a lot of stuff going on but if I turn off hud it's steady 60.

 

What's unfortunate is that for quality single player content HUD is essential.  

 

Sometimes I forget entirely that we have the feature to turn it off. And when I do it is so smooth I can imagine what it must be like to have an intel i9,000,000. 

 

I have to say I disagree strongly with that.  If the briefing screens are clear there is no need for any HUD messages. If creators want to put stuff in I have no problem,  or if players find it helpful, but the missions should be playable without HUD. The whole of the RoF career mode, could be played HUDless - as indeed could 1946's DCG campaigns.

 

The only exceptions I make personally, depending on language, is having an English language subtitle for radio transmissions.  But I have no problem with anyone else having any combination they wish.

Edited September 18, 2017 by unreasonable

[Herne]

I have to say I disagree strongly with that.  If the briefing screens are clear there is no need for any HUD messages. If creators want to put stuff in I have no problem,  or if players find it helpful, but the missions should be playable without HUD. The whole of the RoF career mode, could be played HUDless - as indeed could 1946's DCG campaigns.

 

The only exceptions I make personally, depending on language, is having an English language subtitle for radio transmissions.  But I have no problem with anyone else having any combination they wish.

you can have the hud on so that it only displays chat. This is how mine is configured at the moment.

[NETSCAPE]

I have to say I disagree strongly with that.  If the briefing screens are clear there is no need for any HUD messages. If creators want to put stuff in I have no problem,  or if players find it helpful, but the missions should be playable without HUD. The whole of the RoF career mode, could be played HUDless - as indeed could 1946's DCG campaigns.

 

The only exceptions I make personally, depending on language, is having an English language subtitle for radio transmissions.  But I have no problem with anyone else having any combination they wish.

 

A lot of the time Radio messages, or lack there of, lies the problem. So we are forced to make text on the screen. 

 

I am sure plenty of people could read my descriptions in the briefing and get by. But the average player? probably not. So big yellow messages appear to prompt the player to RTB or land ect. Also these let the player know when it is ok to hit esc and continue. To accomplish the mission I require detection of a stationary player at home field. When the player is detected as "Landed" a message pops up saying "You have landed. Come to a full stop to continue" then "Hit Esc to continue" message appears once the player has stopped.

 

For example testers all agreed I needed some sort of text to confirm/tell the player "hey you can land bro" ... because there are a total of 12 stukas all requesting to land at once...just one small example. 

 

I definitely think that in "expert mode" all the damage notifications shouldn't be there with the HUD enabled. 

[Scheintot]

Hey Community and Developers!

 

I would highly recommend a dedicated menu to customize the HUD to user preferences like it has been done in Arma 3. If someone wants an example in form of screenshots I can deliver it. Just let me know.

 

I also would make the default HUD as useful, most readable and simple (to read) as possible to satisfy lazy people who don't want to customize anything at all. 

 

In this way you can satisfy all people and it makes a good impression about the product itself.

 

To even make it more flexible I would implement an export function of the current hud setting so other people can share their huds. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Scheintot

[Yogiflight]

The only things, I would like to have, are informations, the pilot had, but are not modelled in the game, bombs armed/unarmed, which bombs are selected for drop. I would like to have this informations without the HUD turned on.

 

 

A lot of the time Radio messages, or lack there of, lies the problem. So we are forced to make text on the screen. I am sure plenty of people could read my descriptions in the briefing and get by. But the average player? probably not. So big yellow messages appear to prompt the player to RTB or land ect. Also these let the player know when it is ok to hit esc and continue. To accomplish the mission I require detection of a stationary player at home field. When the player is detected as "Landed" a message pops up saying "You have landed. Come to a full stop to continue" then "Hit Esc to continue" message appears once the player has stopped. For example testers all agreed I needed some sort of text to confirm/tell the player "hey you can land bro" ... because there are a total of 12 stukas all requesting to land at once...just one small example. I definitely think that in "expert mode" all the damage notifications shouldn't be there with the HUD enabled.

I was flying the first three missions without HUD, it is not really necessary, as long as you are not the flightleader, as you simply do, what he does. But I have to admit, I am a quite experienced player, so I know what to look for.

And I have to admit, I 'cheated' when landing, I simply landed on the runway, that was not used by the AI.

[NETSCAPE]

The only things, I would like to have, are informations, the pilot had, but are not modelled in the game, bombs armed/unarmed, which bombs are selected for drop. I would like to have this informations without the HUD turned on.

 

 

I was flying the first three missions without HUD, it is not really necessary, as long as you are not the flightleader, as you simply do, what he does. But I have to admit, I am a quite experienced player, so I know what to look for.

And I have to admit, I 'cheated' when landing, I simply landed on the runway, that was not used by the AI.

 

Yes being flight lead or not is an important variable. In my 110 missions I'm working on they are so speedy that within a very short time you can lose sight of your flight lead when he RTBs. The Stukas are so slow you can see them for days before it is too late haha.

[Yogiflight]

Yes there is surely a big difference between the Stuka and a 110, however 110 might still be ok, as it is quite big, it gets really an issue with fighters. But you are absolutely right, it is quite easy with the Stuka, especially as there was noone else flying between us.

[Mad_Mikhael]

The only things, I would like to have, are informations, the pilot had, but are not modelled in the game, bombs armed/unarmed, which bombs are selected for drop. I would like to have this informations without the HUD turned on.

(...)

But this is modelled. I'm 100% sure for Pe-2, IL-2, BF-110, not sure for Ju-87, Ju-88 and He-111 since I flew it long time ago.

Edited September 18, 2017 by =L/R=Mad_Mikhael

[unreasonable]

The only things, I would like to have, are informations, the pilot had, but are not modelled in the game, bombs armed/unarmed, which bombs are selected for drop. I would like to have this informations without the HUD turned on.

 

 

I was flying the first three missions without HUD, it is not really necessary, as long as you are not the flightleader, as you simply do, what he does. But I have to admit, I am a quite experienced player, so I know what to look for.

And I have to admit, I 'cheated' when landing, I simply landed on the runway, that was not used by the AI.

 

You might but I would not. It is absolutely vital that there is an option such that when the HUD is turned off, there is nothing whatever on the screen except the cockpit.  TBH, if that was not the case, I would never buy another product.

 

We have been talking about On and Off but in effect these are just two settings, A and B, which you toggle between. Further to my idea of a configurable HUD, why not configure A and B?

 

For some A might be everything and B a few things - for you perhaps bomb selection etc, which I agree would be useful as an option.  For me A might be nothing at all, and B just the plane indicators, so that I can find other planes when I am messing about filming from a track.

 

The key is options; without the game, the developers or other players dictating what we each have on screen.

[Yogiflight]

 

 

But this is modelled. I'm 100% sure for Pe-2, IL-2, BF-110, not sure for Ju-87, Ju-88 and He-111 since I flew it long time ago.

Sorry, Iwas not clear about that. I was not talking about bombers, where you can see it in bombsight mode. But you can not see it in the Ju87 and Bf110, exept you turn the HUD on.

But I agree with unreasonable, when you make a big list, where every player can select, what he wants, this would be the best solution.

[BM357_TinMan]

For me, I don't mind the Techno-Chat.  I do wish that you could control the information it gives so that I could limit the information to lever/flap positions.  In my opinion, in a real situation, you would have tactile feedback to let you know just how far you have the radiator lever open, or what position you have the flaps or trim at, etc.  For this reason, I have no problem using the techno-chat as a crutch to give me a quick heads up as to where those things are.

I just wish you could tell those things to stay on.  These two things, information control and having lever potions stay on (Something similar to CLoD) are things I would like to see but really am fine without them.

The two things that I feel are absolutely needed are:

1.  Being able to resize and move the information on the screen, including the techno-chat.
2.  Having an independent enable/disable button for the little HUD thing in the lower left hand corner.  As it is, it is tied to ?icons? I think.  You can't turn it, and only it, off.  I wish you could.

Edited September 18, 2017 by BM357_TinMan

[Sokol1]

Technochat has unnecessary messages for obvious things, Canopy open or close, like lights ON/OFF, Landing Gear up/or down (cockpit has monitoring lights)... Is more easy see if canopy is open or closed looking at then that in a icon message. Things like this should be at least optional, allowing see only what is really necessary, like the engine "timers".

[Mad_Mikhael]

Sorry, Iwas not clear about that. I was not talking about bombers, where you can see it in bombsight mode. But you can not see it in the Ju87 and Bf110, exept you turn the HUD on.

But I agree with unreasonable, when you make a big list, where every player can select, what he wants, this would be the best solution.

But I'm telling you, you can see which bombs are selected for drop without HUD in BF110. And I just checked, in Ju87 there is a panel for it too. Same with Pe-2 and IL-2, those two got even rocket selection panel.

 

Made screenshots for you.

Ju87: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1138409499

 

BF-110: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1138409533

 

 

Rectangle with white hatch is for bombs. Above BF-110 panel is switch for Flugel (wing) and Rumpf (fuselage). Little black squares are switching to white, which means that bomb is selected.

Edited September 18, 2017 by =L/R=Mad_Mikhael

[EAF19_Swoop]

In expert settings servers, compass is available. Would it be possible to add an option to enable the minimap especially for VR users? Thanks.

[EisenWaffel]

There should be an option next to the "Show multiplayer messages" that lets you uncheck "Show server messages" to hide the messages for players joining and leaving the server and ping warnings and kicks, it can be a constant flow of messages that I have no interest in at all. In fact a lot of games seem to force you to see all the join/leave messages I don't get it I don't really need to know about it...

[DDoutel]

In expert settings servers, compass is available. Would it be possible to add an option to enable the minimap especially for VR users? Thanks.

 

+1

 

We all need this, not just the VR users. The issue though, is that it needs to be move-able, scroll-able, and zoom-able, in the same fashion as the full-screen map.

 

edit: forgot size-able.

Edited September 29, 2017 by DDoutel