Best way to survive a bombing run in an IL-2?

[56RAF_Roblex]

I am finding attacking defended targets in an IL-2 a very dodgy prospect as even if I don't get killed I am often forced to crash land soon after. In other games, my squad has usually stuck to the principal of 'Go with several aircraft,  make one pass and get out' yet I often see messages popping up showing single people destroying targets in repeated passes and living.    I have not watched anyone do it so maybe they are level bombing from a few thousand feet or maybe they are just very good at jinking on the way down but still taking out AA in a single burst of cannon as they pass so they can come back with bombs and not have to dodge AA.  

 

Is there a secret for the lone IL-2 with bombs?  Is it better to dive bomb in a curve or is it more survivable to level bomb from 300m?  I must admit I have not attempted level bombing with AA shooting up at me as I feel I am presenting too steady a target but maybe they don't do well against a target doing 350K at 300m?  Maybe treetops at 350 works better?   Do the guns have a 'wake up' delay so appearing over the trees catches them by surprise or do they silently track you even before they see you and are just waiting for you to appear in their sights?  My first attempt on this server went really well, I only got a few inaccurate light guns shooting at me (it was a depot) and I was in & out without a scratch but since then I keep getting close air bursts from heavy guns and very accurate MGs.

 

Please don't post any smug 'Test it yourself' replies.  I want to know peoples opinions & experiences.

Edited September 12, 2017 by 56RAF_Roblex

[=ARTOA=Bombenleger]

What server are we talking about?
Ive seen you a few times on the finnish virtual pilots server, so I will give you tips how to attack AA there. (if you can do it there you can do it anywhere)

Attacking AA alone is near suicide in planes that are good for it and complete suicide in planes that are not good for it.
Planes that are good at attacking AA alone and how to do it:

Fw190: Approach from 1.5-2km of altitude, do a steep dive (40-60°) on the AA, open fire when 1.5-2km out and start turning away from the AA when you are 1km away. rinse and repeat.
Same for Bf110.
Pe2: Approach from at least 2km altitude, deploy airbrakes, enter a very steep dive (70-90°) drop your two 500kg bombs near the AA guns, pull out of the dive at 1-1.5km of altitude fly home and repeat until AA is taken care of.
LaGG3: Put in the 37mm gun with HE ammo (orange) and do the same as in the Fw190. You can also use the 20 or 23mm cannons but the 37mm is extremely effective at it with some practice.

How to take out AA with a very high chance of not receiving damage:

Take 2 fast planes that are somewhat maneuverable (single engined fighters, bf110s, pe2s) can carry bombs and have a good frontal armament.
Plane #1 is the "Flak-rider" he flies in first to get the attention of the AA, he should be around 1.5km high and circle the target close enough so that the AA never stops shooting at him.
At the same time he has to evade the AA, so the faster and more maneuverable the better.
Second plane comes in to take out the AA while it is distracted, should the AA switch targets the roles of the two planes switch as well, so that the free pilot is always engaging the AA.

Small tip for pulling out of AA fire: stay very close to the ground and very fast, dont turn a lot but switch direction every 3-5 seconds, do shallow long turns with a lot of rudder usage to stay low and throw of the aim of the AA. 
As soon as you are out of range you can start climbing again, under no circumstances think you can run away from AA by climbing, it will eat you alive when you do that.
You are never safe from light/medium AA below 2.5km.
When changing altitude to avoid AA always loose altitude, never build up altitude while under fire.
 

Edited September 12, 2017 by =ARTOA=Bombenleger

[Willy__]

Best way of surviving is not taking an IL2 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just joking ofc

[56RAF_Roblex]

OK Thanks.   I only have BoK at the moment so that means I can only fly the IL-2 or the Spitfire until I get another game (it is a shame you cannot buy the PE-2 separately)    Maybe the Yak-7 or P-39 will work well once BoK is complete but then I will just drop a bay full of bombs on the depot from my A20 :-)

[[TWB]80hd]

Alone in an IL-2, I would say your objective is to thin out the AA... for road targets, it's not terrible... it's a little tougher for area targets. 

 

Couple of options here, you can take the biggest bombs possible, or go balls out and take the ROFS-132s + the 6 totally FAB 50s.  I think you only have the IL2-1943, right?  I don't know much about it, so the PTABs might work too, but I think you have to drop them low?

(The IL2-1941 is a lot easier to run strikes like this in, because it's lighter; no gunner)

 

Anyway, big bomb attack... assuming you make it to the target, you're at about 2K, and it's tanks or trucks in a line on the road:

 

 

There are several key things here to give you the best chance of survival (notice I didn't say guarantee survival, you're flying an IL-2 solo, you've already thrown caution to the wind)

 

• You need to stay fast.  Real, real fast.  Figure out at what speed you shed parts in your flavor of Stumovik, and stay just south of that.
• You need to vary your altitude, and to a lesser degree, your heading.
• You need to get your bombs close to the self-propelled AAA
• You need to make like a shepherd and get the flock out of there ASAP

 

First tries at this, I would highly recommend JUST dropping the bombs and scooting.  If it's a full-up convoy of trucks or tanks on TAW, for example, you're gonna be facing more than just those 3 SPAAGs listed in that cocktail napkin sketch.

 

Pick your egress in advance.  You want to be heading toward home on your pull-out.

 

If there are more AAA down the line, once you drop, turn (KEEP bobbing your plane up and down... not jerking your stick, think of sticking your hand out the window as a kid, flow with it) but stay in a steady dive.  The AAA will keep tossing rounds at you for an impressive distance... keep going until after you're sure it's done.

 

If you do this right, you'll kill at least two of the AA, and be outbound with minimal damage.

 

If this all makes sense and is eazy-pizi, the best way to run a tank convoy is (again, working off the 1941 here, your mileage may vary) to take the 6x50kg, 8 ROFS-132s, and the AP belt.  Make the run the same as above, but you carpet bomb with the 50s... with practice you can paste several of the SPAAGs on that first pass.  Then come back and rocket the rest of them, being careful as outlined.

 

With even ONE other person, this whole thing gets much, much easier.  You have one guy fly in and draw AA, but he does nothing else.  He can even orbit in a turn at a higher alt to dodge it and keep it on him.  You roll in and take your time.  With a 2 man IL2 team, one guy takes 6x50, 8x132s, and the AP belt (he's the bait) and the other guy takes the same loadout but switches the AP for mixed or even HE.  While the AA is occupado, HE guy comes in and lays a hurt down.  One burst of 23mm HE/Mix will brew an SDKFz. 

 

Good luck, it ain't easy, but it's entirely doable.

[19//Moach]

dodge and weave... dodge and weave

 

 

I have a trick for picking out a target such as a column with AAA along the length of it - it is rather dangerous, and ideally you never wanna be alone out there to begin with...

 

but, if you are alone, and absolutely must press on the attack (or don't give any shits if you die) here's what you do.

 

 

basically, you wanna take out AAA first - and afterwards, you're free to shoot at other things that are not as intent upon killing you

 

 

to start:  find the furthest out quick-shooter in the target (if it's a column, that's either the first or the last of them) - do not bother with the "big boomers" (the ones that make the black puffs) - if you stay below 500m, they will have a very hard time hitting anywhere close to you, as their traverse rate is dismal slow. - the quick-shooters are the main concern, because they turn fast and shoot even faster.

 

 

once you've identified the furthest out MG-type gun (which I call "quick-shooters") - move yourself so that you approach it perpendicular to all the others, that is:  every other gun in the target area should be to one side of you, and only the one you're targeting should be ahead

 

the goal is to attack each gun individually as much as possible, giving the others the least amount of chance of hitting you while you do that

 

 

 

that means, setup your run so that your approach line crosses the target at a right angle to the general direction of the others, i.e: all guns which you haven't killed will be at your 9 or 3 o' clock as you fly over the one you do kill.

 

 

move in quick, dodging and weaving, kill it dead, and smoothly turn away in the direction where the other guns aren't -- do not turn too hard, as you never want to give them your tail - a good escape trajectory is some 30~45° into the safe side 

 

start turning as soon as you manage to kill it, the further away you do that, the least risk you'll take -- but make sure you DO kill it, or it will make your escape very unpleasant if you don't

 

 

 

as you pull out, stay low - never climb away from AAA, especially when it's right behind you -- you always want to keep yourself moving in their line of sight, which is why you don't turn straight away from them, but keep an angle so that they'll always have to turn their guns to track you. (if you fly straight away, you're as good as stationary in their sights)

 

and as you pull away back to safety, make yourself the most uncooperative bitch of a target you can possibly manage - that means:  dodge and weave like crazy.  but avoid losing too much speed tossing around - if you see tracers getting close, dodge harder, else keep your speed as much as you can

 

 

once you're back in the safety of distance - repeat the process until all the guns have been taken out.  leave the big-boomers for last

 

and only after all AAA is dead, start blasting at anything else

 

 

 

 

as for weapons,  bombs are not good for AAA, they are too inaccurate dropped from any non-suicidal distance and by the time they explode, so have you.

 

rockets are very good against them on the other hand - if you're not confident about aiming those, fire them in pairs - the big ones are the best for this, since even a near-miss will take out a gun

 

but most of the time, AAA gets taken out with guns. the ShVak or the YV-23 are exceptionally good for it.  set them to converge at 400~500 meters, and come in guns-first - sometimes you can scare off the crew with your smaller caliber MGs, spraying furiously from a generous distance, then finish off the gun itself when you're in range, with the gunners soiling their breeches well away from it

 

 

 

for extra heavy AAA locations, you may prefer doing this with a fighter beforehand - the P40 is the most indicated type for it, with copious amounts of firepower and excellent diving speed and stability (thank new FMs for that)

 

otherwise, most WoL locations have only three or four quick-shooters, and a pair of big-boomers for dessert, so the IL2 should be certainly able to manage them....

 

 

...if no enemy fighters show up

Edited September 13, 2017 by 19//Moach

[LLv34_Temuri]

Never fly directly towards the AAA piece. When I'm doing gun runs on AAA, I always fly in an ascending or descending curve towards the AAA piece. Only when I'm about to fire, I pull the AAA piece into the crosshair, give a burst and turn away.

[56RAF_Roblex]

Thanks guys. Good advice.  I was being lazy and hoping to just make a single pass, drop two 250s on the buildings, avoid being shot and run away without going for the guns but I think you are all right; I need to take out the guns before bombing.  A tank depot or airfield has too many guns for me to attempt alone but a normal depot only has 3 emplacements.  I also liked the advice about making sure the approach run only has one of the guns head-on and the others having to traverse. That makes sense (though at the start of your run the angle is quite small so *all* the guns are almost head-on :-) )

 

One last question.   Does anyone know if the guns have any sort of 'wake-up' time ie if your *first* approach to the target area is out of sight of the guns will they still be 100% ready and trained on your invisible plane when you appear or will they all be discussing last nights conquests and take a few seconds to man the guns and start traversing?

Edited September 13, 2017 by 56RAF_Roblex

[Finkeren]

Can only repeat what others have said: If at all possible avoid flying directly towards an AAA emplacement - even if you're not going for the AAA itself but another nearby target. Keep your target to one side as you approach and only turn in for your attack run at the last moment. On the way out, do the same thing, get an angle towards the AAA as fast as possible.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Finkeren

[Feathered_IV]

Every time I roll in on a target, I think of Dart and his gospel tutorials from the olden days. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDEnVCX20iU

[Finkeren]

That video makes me hungry for a 1941 Yak.

[hames123]

Roblex, the Soviet tanks are usually T-34s which can take out the depot in the Finnish virtual pilots, if you get them started. I would advise to just use a PE-2 or any other Soviet bomber and just dump your bombs from out of AA range. If you are in an Il-2, I find that coming in extremely low, setting the bomb fuses to about a minute, ir as long as you can, fly in, strafe an AA gun, and drop a bomb on it if you miss. Keep going until out of their AA range, then return and do it again.

[Royal_Flight]

You can totally wreck face in a Peshka with a wingman and 10x FAB-100s.

Tear in at 200m as fast as you can in a curving shallow dive, keep an eye on any AA you see and either curve into it and give it a burst from the guns or overfly and drop a bomb with a 3+ second fuse. Your wingman should be doing the same but in the opposite direction and you should be able to clean up the AA before taking hits.

 

I find bombs to be good because you don't need a direct hit to put the guns out of commission and you can release two or three if you're not confident in your aim and really need to be sure.

You put yourself at risk on the approach but flying directly over the guns is safe as they can't track you over 180 degrees, they have to rotate around their axis once you're past them so jink and dance on approach, straighten up, release and then get out of the way. Nice explosion and scratch one gun.