Glick manoeuvers and the Spit

[indiaciki]

Flick manoeuvers of course.

 

Does anybody know why they were forbidden flying the VA,VB,& VC versions? 

 

Original manual for those types:

Edited September 10, 2017 by indiaciki

[AndyJWest]

To avoid overstressing the airframe, I suspect. The RAF had a war to fight, and despite all appearances to the contrary weren't operating a flying club for gentlemen not otherwise gainfully employed. 

[Willy__]

Wth is a "flick manoeuver" ?

[AndyJWest]

Wth is a "flick manoeuver" ?

 

https://www.aerobatics.org.uk/judging/topics/flick-rolls

[Willy__]

Oh! Snap rolls! Never heard the term "flick" for them though. Thx for the info anyways! 

[AndyJWest]

Yup. 'Snap roll'/'flick roll', same thing. Though apparently earlier Spitfire pilots notes also described something rather different:

 

 

The high speed variety of flick roll or flick half roll must ON NO ACCOUNT be done. It is liable to cause severe strain, is clumsy and uncomfortable, and, being extremely easy, has no training or other value of any kind. But a flick roll at low speed, and low RPM done very gently, is a useful exercise in timing and control at low speeds, and prevention of spin. It is done by throttling well back, slowing down to about 140 mph ASI, and then very gently easing the stick back and, at the same time, applying rudder. The nose will rise and yaw, and, as the control angles are steadily increased, the aeroplane will suddenly start to “auto rotate”, or flick. If the stick is kept back the aircraft would then spin, but, as soon as the aeroplane approaches an even keel (at about the moment when the wings are vertical) the stick is put forward, and, as the flick ceases, the controls used to steady the aeroplane until the roll is completed. If this is done too late the aeroplane will continue to flick, until it does part of a turn of a spin; if done too soon the flick will stop, and the rest of the roll must be done by aileron control, in the normal way.

 

ON NO ACCOUNT CARRY OUT FLICK MANOEUVRES EXCEPT AT LOW SPEEDS, but remember that low speed makes spinning more likely if the controls are mishandled. Ample height should be allowed.

 

That is from Pilot’s Notes Spitfire IIA and IIB, as quoted in a Pprune thread on Spit snap rolls (http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/514959-snap-roll-spit.html#post7850312) To my mind though, the 'low speed flick roll' described isn't a flick manoeuvre at all, just a normal approach to a spin. In both cases the aircraft autorotates, but a high speed 'flick' involves much higher G forces. 

 

As the Pprune thread notes, Pilots Notes weren't always adhered to, and Spitfires certainly were flick rolled on occasion. 

[ZachariasX]

From what I have seen, basically all aircraft of the era were not cleared for "flicking" maneuvers. As pointed out above, flicking it to make it enter a spin is not part of that. If you are that slow, you 're fine. But doing a flick roll at the speed you would fly a normal roll could result in structural overload. These planes are no Extra 300. And the faster you go, the higher the resulting loads. And the Spitfire is a fast aircraft.

 

To illustrate this, the Tiger Moth also is forbidden to flick. When Pierre Closterann learned to fly on a Bücker Jungmann back in Brazil (with a German instructor), He learned the maneuver. You can do it with a Bücker. When he cam to Britain and hevhad to go through flight school again, he was sent to basic training. Explaining that he had a Pilots license already, the instuctor wanted to see how he did in the Moth. The instructor took the front seat, up they went and Pierre gave the plane a real workout. He did rolling, looping, spinning. After flick rolling, the instructor would wave around indictating that he should land at once. Upon landing, the instuctor yelled at him that he was supposed to kill Germans and not instructors and sent him to advaned courses (that he would finish 'above average').

[AndyJWest]

i think its more due to the danger of the manouber, if you pull the stick just a bit farher you stall and lose a plane and pilot, not easy manouber specially in real life with just one live

 

A flick roll involves stalling by definition. See the link in post #4.