Having much trouble with the LaGG, none with 109

[leitmotiv]

I thought A2A FSX single-engine fighters were a handful on takeoff, but the LaGG beats all.The 109 is manageable, but I cannot get the LaGG (in its latest permutation---the original, non-firing, I could get off the ground) to stop swinging. The tail wheel is locked, so that is not the problem. If I apply a bit of left rudder it tries to turn, compensating with right rudder just sends it swinging to the right. Since it does not have toe brakes on the pedals, I can't get any help here. Even simple ground handling is very hard. The trouble with my LaGG is lag. The response is not immediate. I have to abort every takeoff attempt. As it stands now, I am a 109 user (I hate the head armor!).

[Matt]

The tail wheel is locked, so that is not the problem.

Nope, you can't lock the tail wheel on the LaGG, which might explain you having more trouble with it than with the 109.

 

Only advice i can give, is set RPM to full and then very gently throttle up. The runway is long enough, so you don't have to speed up that quickly to be able to take-off.

[Finkeren]

The LaGG is a handful on the ground (even more so than in the air) but once you get used to her, she's not all bad.

 

Using the brake is absolutely essential for ground handling. Keep in mind that it has no toe brakes so you need to assign a special key, you can't just use the same as the 109.

 

If you experience yaw that you can't seem to counter on take off, my guess is that you're slamming the throttle too hard. Going from idle to full throttle too fast causes the revs to go ballistic causing a massive pull to the right which results in a ground loop that you can't counter because you have no rudder authority = not enough airflow past the tail.

 

Instead try to ease the throttle open over a couple of seconds gradually adding rudder input as necessary. Once you start picking up speed, you will start to gain rudder authority and can apply full throttle for the take off.

[303_Kwiatek]

Truly speaking FSX engine is really poor regarding flight model area. It is just too simplicated.  Try P-51 from A2A then try DCS P-51 you will take huge difference in planes handling both in the ground and in the air.

 

BOS has also good immersion  regarding ground handling of planes. Pity that i can say that about planes handling in the air.

[=38=Tatarenko]

The prop acceleration causes the biggest swing. Make sure revs set to max ("pitch" full forward underneath the throttle) before advancing the throttle then use left foot down on the runway.

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

the lagg really is a pain in the but to taxi and take off. i always go full flaps on takeoff, nose down to get the plane horizontal. once i see speed reach about 100 to 125, i ease off the rudder and ease off the nose down and she lifts off the ground relativly straight. but with flaps down it has a terrible tendance to bank left heavily, so after lift off, i immidiatly go to half flaps...this seems to stabailze the aircraft and makes it much more manageable

[=38=Tatarenko]

For take off generally 20 deg flaps is recommended. And (in the LaGG) a slight right hand down to compensate for the right wing lifting earlier.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

The key point for me is that you can't force the tail up.  It doesn't matter if you stay tail wheel low until the plane wants to go flying - that works. I also  raise by viewpint and back out my field of view so when things are not progressing in an orderly fashion I can see it sooner.

 

Also, there is no correct rudder position - it is a constant series of adjustments.

[Sim]

No problems here on the "Expert" difficulty: mixture "100%", pitch/rpm "100%", flaps 20, throttle up and you are off (rudder input depends on how fast you throttle up and if you lift your tail early on).

[unreasonable]

I just had the same trouble with the Lagg then I realized I had not set difficulty to expert: it is actually harder in normal!

 

Also found that it was easier to takeoff with no flaps at all as per Spitfire technique - runway is plenty long enough and a/c seems to speed up more smoothly.

[BeastyBaiter]

I must be the only one that finds the LaGG-3 much easier to handle on the ground than the 109.

[senseispcc]

I just had the same trouble with the Lagg then I realized I had not set difficulty to expert: it is actually harder in normal!

 

Also found that it was easier to takeoff with no flaps at all as per Spitfire technique - runway is plenty long enough and a/c seems to speed up more smoothly.

True it is harder to take off and to land in "normal mode" than in the "expert mode", this  because you have more control of more things in "expert mode".

And like I did write somewhere else the engine sound is different also.

COD was a great training game for this one!

[Finkeren]

I must be the only one that finds the LaGG-3 much easier to handle on the ground than the 109.

I think you are. Although I must say, that once you learn and understand its quirks the LaGG isn't that bad.

 

The Bf 109 on the other hand handles very easily on the tarmac. The only thing to watch out for is proper rudder input during take offs and landings and also showing respect for its powerful engine and don't use too much power in taxiing.

[Matt]

I must be the only one that finds the LaGG-3 much easier to handle on the ground than the 109.

Can't say i notice that much of a difference difficulty-wise. You just need to get used to how the planes handle.

 

The 109 has the advantage of the locked tail wheel and i find it easier to land. But that's pretty much it. Of course the LaGG has the advantage of the wider undercarriage, so incase you side slip too much during take-off or landing, you're less likely to tilt to one side.

 

As for flaps on the LaGG, i use a maximum of 20 degrees during take off, but i also have no trouble taking off without using flaps at all. Now if the runway would be shorter, it might be a bit more tricky.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Matt

[Georgio]

Personally I don't have any problems with the LaGG. I just make sure that any throttle input is as smooooooth as silk. Just ease her open a tad to get moving, gradually ease in more power until you're upto 70 or so, then give her the balls out treatment until she lifts off and just be ready to catch the torque twist which can bury a wing.

U/c and flaps up, fly straight to build up speed and hope that there's no maurading 109's waiting to bounce a low and slow LaGG... :D

[Dutch]

 i always go full flaps on takeoff,

 

 

 found that it was easier to takeoff with no flaps at all .

 

[BraveSirRobin]

I use 1/2 flaps...

[DD_bongodriver]

unless trying to operate from a very short field there should be no need for any flap on take off.

[Fifi]

unless trying to operate from a very short field there should be no need for any flap on take off.

 

Exactely.Perfect take off without flaps even on Lapino.

 

But i suspect real planes should require some flaps though...

Edited December 16, 2013 by Fifi

[DD_bongodriver]

But i suspect real planes should require some flaps though...

 

Some do, powerful single engine fighters shouldn't need any

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

T/O without flaps..easy 

Landing..well.....

 

Look I hit so hard gear up... I busted the glass..(this was before we got guns.)

I can fly it, I just can't land it, or shoot anything with it!

Like I could ever land!

Edited December 16, 2013 by Blackwolf

[Fifi]

 

 

Like I could ever land!

 

You know, some real famous pilots had really troubles with landings...like Guynemer at first year 

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

landing is for chumps, thats why they made parachutes

Edited December 16, 2013 by -MG-Cacti4-6

[leitmotiv]

I had no trouble at all with the original version without detailed engine controls. I thought it would be easier yet with the engine controls. I don't suddenly throw the throttle forward; I gently accelerate. The primary problem is that the blasted thing cannot be stopped from swinging to the left or right. Even a nudge of rudder causes it to swing off the runway, and I abort the takeoff. I taxi (with great difficulty) back to the runway, and try again. Same over and over---it swings so much I cannot get it to stay on the runway. I have never experienced an airplane which oscillates even on the full throttle takeoff run. I tried a snow takeoff! The snow, at least, stopped it from swinging, but it prevented me from getting up enough speed to come unstuck.

 

I mentioned A2A's aircraft for FSX because they were 100 times harder to manage for takeoffs than the old IL-2, but I could learn how to takeoff with them. I am absolutely stumped by the LaGG. The A2A Fw 190A's were the hardest aircraft to control on a takeoff I had experienced prior to the laggardly LaGG.

 

I will try without flaps, but I don't see how that will stop the oscillation.

 

I am useless with rotary engines in ROF. i might be useless in the LaGG-3. It's funny because all the LaGG-3's were among my favorite original IL-2 aircraft.

[andyw248]

I can't consistently get the rotaries in ROF down either... but all the other ones, with the inline engines, still require a certain level of technique, and that's what makes it so much fun

[FlatSpinMan]

That's interesting, Leit. I can handle it okay now (always on normal settings so far), but had just what you described in the first version. I think it took me over ten attempts to get airborne, and that was after veering off gaily across the countryside.

Have you looked at the prop controller thing?

I recall that was set low so people lacked power.

 

I agree that the 109 is easier to handle. I like the solidity of the LaGG in the air. It feels like it has some real weight.

Can't fly it for peanuts, of course.

[piper]

~S~

 

Leitmotiv, Hi.

 

I had the exact experience as you describe on my first three attempts in the LaGG, I became frustrated  and decided to watch the auto pilot...voila, I was suffering from the 'reverse controls' bug.  I had my prop lever fully forwards, but it was not recognized in game.

 

Now every time I start a new game I wiggle all my levers to re-set them so to speak, prop, mixture etc  If I forget, then the LaGG does exactly as you describe, it will never attain take off speed or hold a straight line as rudder inputs are useless...

 

Worth a look see?  I don't have any issues with take off or ground handling, flaps- 0~20, early rudder inputs to keep on top of the straight line and progressive full throttle.

 

It has to be something simple you may have overlooked, if you can pilot all those other Sims the LaGG should be no contest.

 

Hope it helps?

 

piper.

[Matt]

But i suspect real planes should require some flaps though...

With bombs and/or rockets and on a shorter runway, they might become necessary.

[=AH=_Sid_]

The only tip I would add to what's been said already is to try holding the elevator full back when you initially set power, control any swing and only then relax the back pressure on the stick when you've got the takeoff run under control and going straight.

 

I was having a big problems keeping the LaGG on the runway with the crosswind from the right (instead of the default left in the mission), but this method has helped with that greatly.

 

The other thing to try is not just pushing the throttle all the way up to full WEP power, initially just use the full normal power 'gate' (marked on the throttle quadrant or '8' on the manifold pressure) and only apply full WEP power if needed once your above 100-150kph.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htLwR66vyS8

 

Ops, you'll have to excuse the lack of sound in the intro, this is my first attempt with Sony Vegas

[Bearcat]

I thought A2A FSX single-engine fighters were a handful on takeoff, but the LaGG beats all.The 109 is manageable, but I cannot get the LaGG (in its latest permutation---the original, non-firing, I could get off the ground) to stop swinging. The tail wheel is locked, so that is not the problem. If I apply a bit of left rudder it tries to turn, compensating with right rudder just sends it swinging to the right. Since it does not have toe brakes on the pedals, I can't get any help here. Even simple ground handling is very hard. The trouble with my LaGG is lag. The response is not immediate. I have to abort every takeoff attempt. As it stands now, I am a 109 user (I hate the head armor!).

 

 

Nope, you can't lock the tail wheel on the LaGG, which might explain you having more trouble with it than with the 109.

 

Only advice i can give, is set RPM to full and then very gently throttle up. The runway is long enough, so you don't have to speed up that quickly to be able to take-off.

 

That is the key in the Lagg..  full RPM and gently throttling up... I never use flaps at all in the Lagg for take off.. or I should say I don't have to..

[Crow]

It sounded like the OP was having problems with directional control on the ground. My suggestion is instead of applying RIGHT rudder when the nose starts to go too far left, just apply less LEFT rudder. Try taking off without ever moving the rudder to the right. If you need for the aircraft to go right, return the pedals to the neutral position and the right-turning tendencies will yaw the plane for you.

 

Other than that, it's pretty easy. Some other tips already mentioned:

 

1. Throttle up very slowly. I would say let the aircraft roll at a low power setting, then throttle up slowly to half power. Verify you have complete control, once you have full control continue to throttle up to full SLOWLY. The LaGG doesn't need much runway and you have a ton. Be gentle.

 

2. Allow the tail to rise on it's own. Only pull back on the stick when the nose has come down to the horizon of it's own accord.

 

I think I've tried every combination of flaps settings and found it made no difference in the difficulty of the takeoff (only the performance). The configuration of the airplane doesn't matter too much, but I would try it with between 0-20 degrees flaps.

[Zoring]

If your LaGG is swinging around on the ground it's because of your prop pitch thingie. Swing that forward and you'll power off.

[Crow]

Just messed with the LaGG some more. Try this OP:

 

Hold the rudder FULL left as you start to roll. As you build speed slowly let off pressure. NEVER input right rudder. If you need to go right, let off a slight amount of left rudder. I took off without any directional control problems doing this.

[Karost]

I was faced same experience  like  leitmotive when first time try LaGG

same as above friends point out  ->  push RPM full forward  then throttle up with more left ladder   

[dkoor]

Nope, you can't lock the tail wheel on the LaGG, which might explain you having more trouble with it than with the 109.

 

Only advice i can give, is set RPM to full and then very gently throttle up. The runway is long enough, so you don't have to speed up that quickly to be able to take-off.

Aye, good advice.

 

In BoS I generally gradually apply throttle it really works for me.

Once aircraft is rolling straight at small speed you can apply more throttle.

[15/JG52_Genie]

zero issues.

 

just fly it like you would fly a woman...

[leitmotiv]

Thanks everybody. It is not abrupt acceleration because I slowly accelerate. I'll try the other tips. This is pretty embarrassing!

[TheBlackPenguin]

Thanks everybody. It is not abrupt acceleration because I slowly accelerate. I'll try the other tips. This is pretty embarrassing!

 

Don't be, took awhile to get it in the air, just make sure you're using full forward prop pitch (fine) and counter any torgue. Plus, plenty of people are still breaking planes on landing, even after making 3 or 4 successful ones the 5th still ends in the odd bit or two breaking off lol.

[Fifi]

When starting directly on runway with Lagg, even the prop pitch fine, when you accelerate the Prop gauge needles are turning and setting the right pitch. This gives lot a torque on rolling if starting right away.

Try to slowly accelerate with both brakes on, till the needles are really set to prop pitch fine. Then you're ready to go and roll without too much torque 

[Mogster]

I think a lot of people may have their controls reversed. Auto prop pitch seems to make the Lagg swing as well so go for manual, a bit like an auto gearbox in a car changing gears mid corner when you'd rather it didn't. Set prop pitch full forward for takeoff.

 

Auto radiator and mixture are fine.

 

Advance the throttle cautiously applying left rudder to correct the right swinging. Mashing the throttle will drag you off the runway to the right, you wont have enough rudder authority to bring it back.

 

I don't use flaps on takeoff.