Netcode

[Herne]

Really impressed overall with the performance in MP, and was wondering if anybody knew how the netcode is handled in dogfights. I'm assuming there must be an element of Peer to Peer, because a pure Server / Client setup would introduce too much latency ?

I find this stuff interesting and was just curious, does anyone know ?

[Max_Damage]

Hit detection is client based. it is a very good netcode im loving it and i have no problem with it. You have to sacrifice something always if you have 100ms+ latency. The one which we have does this with minimal harm.

[Irgendjemand]

Isnt everything that is client based subject to be manipulated by cheaters?

If so wouldnt hitdetection be THE one worst choice to have client based?

 

I have no clue about network programming or programming at all. Just my thoughts.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[FTC_Riksen]

I rarely have problems with it unless Im in wings of liberty. The high ping there some times make people hit you when their nose is not even aimed at you or you get damaged from a headon pass like 10 seconds after the event has happened.

[JaffaCake]

Yeah, everything is client-based. Several times I had seen an enemy plane explode mid-air because his client through he rammed me, while on my client I managed to evade the collision! (yey to high pings!).

 

This does also mean that client-side cheating is possible and cheaters were / are present. There are youtube videos showing people being invulnerable and having unlimited ammo / bombs.

 

The major benefit is that YOUR flying is perfect. Major drawback is what your client thinks has happened to the enemy has nothing to do with what the enemy thinks has happened to it - so you could have a ton of "hits" on someone while that someone would ignore them because on his side the hits did nothing.

Edited September 5, 2017 by JaffaCake

[curiousGamblerr]

Just because something is client based does not mean it's totally vulnerable to cheating. This isn't a browser based app where the client side JavaScript is easily manipulated. I would guess those YouTube videos are all from before they implemented some cheat detection tech about a year ago.

 

That's not to say it's impossible, but the overlap between people willing to cheat and those that are technically able to figure it out is likely very small.

[Max_Damage]

All modern shooters use client based. All modern games id say use client based. Some mix it up with server based like war thunder. But then you get complaints about "omg my mk108 gives sparkles and zero damage when i hit".

[JaffaCake]

Just because something is client based does not mean it's totally vulnerable to cheating. This isn't a browser based app where the client side JavaScript is easily manipulated. I would guess those YouTube videos are all from before they implemented some cheat detection tech about a year ago.

 

That's not to say it's impossible, but the overlap between people willing to cheat and those that are technically able to figure it out is likely very small.

 

Anything client-side is by definition totally vulnerable to cheating - the developers have 0 control over what happens on the client! The only control they have is what user decides to let them have.

 

This is an old old argument of "we are too small to see people cheat in the game!"

 

Please realise that the game is also too small to afford proper anti-cheat measures, making it a much weaker target in comparison to Steam or individual games (which also get cheats released on regular basis).

 

I am happy though that the devs took some measures to prevent the blatant cheating that is shown in the videos. I wouldn't hold any hope to actually be certain that there are no cheaters in the game. The opaqueness of the enemy's perspective and the client-sidedness of the implementation means that a cheater that wishes to stay hidden, gain 5-10% performance everywhere and skip a bullet or two if they weren't a direct hit will stay undetected forever. Oh and he gets to choose if he wants GPS, markers, and all of the other assortment of helpful features expert mode doesn't get.

[coconut]

It's possible to have client side detection followed by verification and confirmation by the server. Client-side is not synonymous to vulnerable to cheating.

[Jade_Monkey]

Other kinds of cheaters: people pressing the screenshot button when they are in your sights.

 

It creates a fake lag that helps evade the shot.

 

It's pathetic.

 

I hope they can develop a server side lock for the screenshots the same way other things are disabled (VR head movement) for MP if the owner wants.

[Herne]

hmm after reading some of your responses, I don't think there is a comprehensive solution. 

I mean I remember years ago playing WoW with my son which is obviously client server based. We sat next to each other on a LAN, but there would be an almost 3 second delay between me moving forward on my screen, to me moving forward on his. Far too long a delay for a combat FS

the more checks and balances you have to overcome cheating, it seems to me that the more latency you introduce, and I guess in this case I favor performance, which in general is really pretty solid. Very occasionally I might see a little rubber banding, but compared with other games i've played and how the shots are tracked through our AC to determine damage states. I'm quite impressed.

Only exploit I was aware of before reading this thread today, if you can call it that, would be occasionally  on some servers I might see AC disappear, usually if they attacked, but then lost the advantage which I assumed to be an alt - f4 action.

 

[JaffaCake]

It's possible to have client side detection followed by verification and confirmation by the server. Client-side is not synonymous to vulnerable to cheating.

 

 

I refer you to failed attempts at doing so :

PunkBuster

Steam Guard

 

And pretty much any other DRM scheme out there. You can slow down a determined cheater and make it not worth it, but it takes a lot of effort and development time to do it properly.

 

The only "real" solution so far was with consoles, such as xbox or PS4, as hacking hardware chips is significantly more difficult than running a debugger on a "debugger-proof" piece of executable. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by JaffaCake

[Venturi]

Interesting. I've had some shady experiences on Berloga before.

 

I think from here on out, I'm just going to fly on a server which limits planes for each pilot. I would bet you that the cheater types stay away from those zones. Too much patience required.