Does AI go dumb after being hit?

[Uriah]

I'm flying the dog fight in the 109 and after hitting the lagg and making him smoke he goes pretty easy.  No more fancy flying.  Is that just the state of the AI for now?  Is it realistic?

[dburne]

I'm flying the dog fight in the 109 and after hitting the lagg and making him smoke he goes pretty easy.  No more fancy flying.  Is that just the state of the AI for now?  Is it realistic?

 

Yes, sometimes after one good hit, sometimes after a couple.

I have noticed this as well, seems very similar to ROF in that regard.

[SKG51_robtek]

Maybe the pilot is wounded and more or less disabled, or the controls of the plane.

[Foobar]

isn't it the goal of shooting him to stop fancy flying?

[-MG-Cacti4-6]

Maybe the pilot is wounded and more or less disabled, or the controls of the plane.

this is my thought. 

 

when ever i get popped by ai, since i get wounded 99.9% of the time i cant see squat cuz of all the blood. so perhaps since the ai cant see, he just goes full idiot and flys straight and level. 

[Matt]

I think that "blind spot" feature has something to do with it. The AI simply ignores you, when it lost you out of its sight. When you're right on the tail or below it, you're in the blind spot and it will just ignore you, regardless of weather or not he's getting shot at.

[dburne]

In ROF when the AI gets hit severely and the plane is damaged, especially the engine I think, the AI tries to get back home - or at least to friendly territory, usually flying low and slow.

This seems very similar to that behavior.

[Finkeren]

I actually like the way it is, and I'm pretty sure it has to with one thing:

 

The AI flies exactly the same FM, that we do with all the quirks and limitations. Therefore, when the LaGG - which is already overloaded and underpowered - loses either engine power or lift (due to the airfoil being damaged) it very much narrows the flight envelope and the LaGG pretty much becomes a sitting duck at that point. Try it for yourself: Just how much maneuvering can you really do in the LaGG, once your engine starts to go south?

 

The Bf 109 on the other hand has enough of a horsepower surplus, that it fights almost as well on a smoking engine, though it can't take too many hits to the wing before it starts spassing out. 

 

My problem with the AI is, that it really doesn't fly the LaGG too well, when it's not damaged. It burns a lot of energy on the first turn and spends the rest of the fight oscillating pitch and doing nothing. I'm sure with some tweaking the AI will become better at handling the LaGG though.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Finkeren

[Mags]

Maybe the AI also is struggling with the non-existant trim as we do when flying the Lagg-3.

And when he gets hit, he just tries to survive. Think of it, being hit severly and maybe wounded, must be quite a shock in reality.

But I don't know if the AI is programmed to act that way. :-)

 

Have a good one!

[Fifi]

I also like the way AI is flying so far in BOS.

I even could manage a kind of team fight VS pair of ennemies!...well, it seemed!

Was running out of ammos, and my AI mate came to help me 

 

What's good, is AI isn't going into crazy wings flapping manoeuvres when you get into his 6 (remember first CloD AI?)

I like the way AI is reacting when damaged. But sometimes he is STILL fighting when a firing opportunity is open!

It seems also we can surprise them coming from 6 low. Very good point to me.

I like the way AI try to reduce speed at moments, and try to perform scissors.

 

What needs to be adjusted IMO, is the different AI skill levels rendering.

Meaning difference between novice and veteran/ace shouldn't be ONLY shooting deadly accuracy!

So far, the AI ace seems to fly same kind of manoeuvres as novices...but i'm hopping devs could add more "special" manoeuvres for high skills (like vertical dives, steeper climbs etc)

 

And of course, as in ROF, i hope AIs won't be able to see through clouds!

Edited December 16, 2013 by Fifi

[OBT-Psycho]

I really like the way AI behaves once damaged, it feels really plausible. It tends to take into account damaged endured and adapt his way of flying  to avoid making it worse.

 

and as described Fifi, the way it will still try to shoot you if you happen to cross his line of fire if it has the opportunity. And just admit it... we all have been in this situation when struggling with the stick to keep this now piece of junk in the air, and your opponent kind of show of around you waiting for your death and passes close to your nose. Then you smash the stick to pull the "one last" regain of energy and spit a desperate cloud of lead, hoping it wil ends his flight into the smile of the guy who thought he had bagged a kill.

 

Maybe you're right about the difference between  novice and ace, but I have not encountered enough of those experten to be really helpfull on this topic.

 

Now let's wait the moment we will be able to see multipleplanes in a air combat. this could be interresting, considering how it works right now

[dkoor]

 

So far, the AI ace seems to fly same kind of manoeuvres as novices...but i'm hopping devs could add more "special" manoeuvres for high skills (like vertical dives, steeper climbs etc)

 

 

Yeah I met one of those "Aces" when outta ammo, but I just kept easy circling until my Novice wingie came and blast the "Ace" away.

For just that one encounter Ace AI is nothing to write home about.

[J4SCrisZeri]

I've noticed it, but it happened in CloD too: I have seen top AI aces turning into sluggish sheeps after a first pass and a god hit.

Looked like some strange suicidal attitude, but probably their plane was programmed to simulate a serious failure, or they were severly hit

Edited December 17, 2013 by J4Scriszeri

[Fifi]

For BOS, i wish differencies between different AI skill levels could be like in CloD actually.

Just had a fight with a Spitfire ace level (supposed to be, cause noting can highlight it ingame) and this damned guy was incredibly good at flying, but not deadly accurate at first burst.

He managed few nice hits in my 109, and sticked to my 6 like a damned glue...scissors, loops, dives and climbs, even black screen G...he was still around!

Though, was able to avoid some of his other burst too, and that's what i find nice. Awesome flying but not dead accurate at shooting.

It gives the player a very enjoyable intense moment! Not 5 seconds and bingo, either killed or wing lost...

Devs tend to give AI a better shooting accuracy before a better flying accuracy when it comes to climb the skill level steps.

We can see it in ROF as well. AI aces are fantastic shooters...that's about it.

[Finkeren]

I share your hopes Fifi, but building AI for BoS/RoF is just a lot different, when you don't use a simplified AI.

[OBT-Psycho]

I'm glad AI can shoot pretty well. One of the things that bothered me in old Il-2 was inability of AI to pull a delfection shoot. If you wanted to be safe, you just had to keep circling around, no bullet would fly near you.

 

Here is a total change. They shoot pretty well, or at least decently well. This is great new as they put a lot of effort on the offline side, AI is important to immersion. And they did a great job so far. A bit of polishing here and there, and we are good to go

[Fifi]

I share your hopes Fifi, but building AI for BoS/RoF is just a lot different, when you don't use a simplified AI.

 

Well, if simplified AI can give better AI...i'm all for simplified AI! 

 

 

I'm glad AI can shoot pretty well.

 

 

 

Me too! 

But not that dead well in it comes to ace level.

I still have in mind ROF AI aces... 99% of time, you were badly wounded at first burst.

 

You know, i'm only offliner due mainly to my internet here, and i always have high hopes on how the AIs are modelized...

So far, i like CloD AIs (not novice/normal but higher) and DCS too. I gave up with ROF ones...and hope BOS won't follow ROF steps.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Fifi

[Rivet]

The only thing different that I noticed about the Ace AI is that they come in at a higher altitude. Pretty much the same after that.

[Finkeren]

Well, if simplified AI can give better AI...i'm all for simplified AI!

 

LOL

 

I actually meant to write "simplified FM" not "simplified AI", but I think you got that.

[smink1701]

I think the AI is a work in progress and will be improved.  It's pretty good at present but one thing I hope they address is the unrealistic "fluttering" motion they sometime exhibit.

[Lusekofte]

I don't know how it works in BOS. But in IL 2 you could see the difference in AI only planes and those meant to fly. 

If you made a AI only plane flying you had a plane almost impossible to take off or land if you did nothing to the FM.

 

I am not sure of this but the FM for AI and the FM for us is two different things, I might be wrong about this. But that was the way it worked in IL 2. Witch by the way got far better AI pilots than DCS and CLOD. 

I get that the AI we got here are giving me hope, to me it seems like the AI in 109 take advantage of its climb and in the LAGG they know climbing is the worst thing to do.

Flying dogfight with 109 in a LAgg I saw it vital to just fly on after the first head on pass and force the opponent to make another head on attack. Because you can not get him by turning in and follow.

It is too early to deem anything but I actually got very optimistic about this after my first test last Sunday

[Fifi]

The developers have specifically stated that the AI uses the same FM as the player.

 

That's very nice, but has counterpart...we won't see big flights (as in ROF) because of perf limitations when too many planes involved due to same FM as player.

In Clod for example, i can have 100 planes flying on map together actually. It will not be possible in BOS.

[SKG51_robtek]

That's very nice, but has counterpart...we won't see big flights (as in ROF) because of perf limitations when too many planes involved due to same FM as player.

In Clod for example, i can have 100 planes flying on map together actually. It will not be possible in BOS.

100 planes with the same FM, to be shure, as they all could be human piloted. 

[Fifi]

Wait for multiplayer...and see how it will run.

[dkoor]

I just hope they can create cheatless Ai that no man can beat.

 

Name that one Pokryshkin or Barkhorn.

 

That would be alpha Ai, just like that mean MF from Battlestar Galactica enriched with experience of thousand reincarnations, 

 

 

This we can call a good start of a long lasting complicated relationship between us (devs) and belowed masohistically hard AI that only some chosen ones can defeat on even ground.

 

A good or superb flying Ai will surely give you far more headache than sharpshooter one that is shovel dumb otherwise.

Unlike humans... superb sharpshooter will always be more dangerous than Red Bull air racer than can't find his own leg with Colt 1911.

 

In fact it would be surreal, revelation kinda experience to fly vs that good AI... not to mention that this would solely really make a whole another game within.

 

Many, me included would probably spend numerous hours just flying in QMB vs such virtual ace(s).

 

Also more scalability from the superb to the novice would be great. Maybe even separate that to some kind of arcade screen:

-awareness scale 1-10

-shooting scale 1-10

-flying scale 1-10

-etc.

 

Maybe I just dream on open here but being every bit offline player as I'm online I'd very much love to see something like this.