Key Mapping Question, Please?

[DDoutel]

Can someone please tell me the difference between the following:

 

- Pitch Trim

- Adjustable Stabilizer Axis

- FW190 Adjustible Stabilizer

 

I've flown IL2 sims since the original IL2 Sturmovik, through Forgotten Battles/1946 and CLoD, as well as having flown actual aircraft; from a sim perspective, I'm not seeing the difference controller-wise, between the above, and why one would work for the 109 but not for the 190 and vice versa.

 

Thanks, guys!

3./JG51_Baldur

 

[LukeFF]

Number 2 is for the 109 and MC202. Number 3 is for... well...the 190. Number 1 is for all other planes with adjustable trim surfaces.

 

As for why it was set up this way - no one really knows.

Edited August 31, 2017 by LukeFF

[DDoutel]

it seems kinda senseless, since the game doesn't provide a mechanism for per-plane profiles, doesn't it? I think I'd give my left nut and half my right for per-plane profiles...! 

[curiousGamblerr]

Well, an adjustable stabilizer is not the same as trim. No current plane has both, but that's the reason for two bindings I guess, because technically they're different things.

 

Then 109, MC202, ju52 and 190 have adjustable stabilizers and use binding number 2 except the 190 is special because it has electric controls and uses two buttons, as opposed to a wheel like the first three. So we have the third binding for the 190 because it can't be bound to a rotary like the others.

[busdriver]

Can someone please tell me the difference between the following:

 

- Pitch Trim

- Adjustable Stabilizer Axis

- FW190 Adjustible Stabilizer

 

I've flown IL2 sims since the original IL2 Sturmovik, through Forgotten Battles/1946 and CLoD, as well as having flown actual aircraft; from a sim perspective, I'm not seeing the difference controller-wise, between the above, and why one would work for the 109 but not for the 190 and vice versa.

 

Thanks, guys!

3./JG51_Baldur

 

I see Luke replied with what I was going to say...from a RL pilot's perspective applying three descriptions for the same purpose requiring three distinct controller key-binding assignments is superfluous. 

[dburne]

it seems kinda senseless, since the game doesn't provide a mechanism for per-plane profiles, doesn't it? I think I'd give my left nut and half my right for per-plane profiles...! 

 

That feature would be so nice, especially as more and more planes get added to the sim.

[busdriver]

Well, an adjustable stabilizer is not the same as trim. No current plane has both, but that's the reason for two bindings I guess, because technically they're different things.

 

 

Au contraire mon ami!

 

In the Phantom and the Viper we trimmed the stab, and called it Stab Trim. Having a trim tab on an elevator and having an adjustable stabilizer are indeed "different things" but they serve the same purpose, and for simmers programming controllers Occam's razor should work. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by busdriver

[Sokol1]

Can someone please tell me the difference between the following:

 

- Pitch Trim

- Adjustable Stabilizer Axis

- FW190 Adjustible Stabilizer

 

Just different names for the same thing:make the plane nose "heavy" of not, and you can map all in the same two keys/buttons (one for up, other for down), plus the first in axis.

 

Example:

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Sokol1

[Hoss]

it seems kinda senseless, since the game doesn't provide a mechanism for per-plane profiles, doesn't it? I think I'd give my left nut and half my right for per-plane profiles...! 

No thanks.............. I'd have to quit the game and go out and change my TARGET profile for each kind of plane with different controls............  I only have one profile now and I can switch around to any plane in the game right now and I like it that way............. 

 

Control I use for everything but the 190's

Pitch_Trim_Up                                 RCTL KBDOWN

Pitch_Trim_Down                             RCTL KBUP   These  are on trim hat forward/aft in the "O" out function

 

Commands for 190..

Adjustable_Stabiliser_Up                RSHF KBUP

Adjustable_Stabiliser_Down           RSHF KBDOWN  These are on the trim hat F/A in the "I" In function.  they are opposites from the ones above too, up does not mean nose up.....

 

 

Rudder_Trim_Left                              LCTL z

Rudder_Trim_Right                            LCTL x  these are on Trim hat L/R in "O" out function

 

Roll_Trim_Left                                RCTL KBLEFT

Roll_Trim_Right                              RCTL KBRIGHT  these are on trim hat L/R in "I" in Function

 

These will control all axis in all the planes we have at the moment.

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

Edited August 31, 2017 by 1./JG54_Hoss

[curiousGamblerr]

Au contraire mon ami!

 

In the Phantom and the Viper we trimmed the stab, and called it Stab Trim. Having a trim tab on an elevator and having an adjustable stabilizer are indeed "different things" but they serve the same purpose, and for simmers programming controllers Occam's razor should work. 

 

Yeah I agree with all that for sure, and thats a cool tidbit about the Phantom and Viper. I didn't mean to defend the current setup so much as explain that it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

 

On the other hand, you could apply the same logic to e.g. water radiators and engine cowls. Afaik no plane has both, and they both serve the same purpose of cooling the engine, but I'm still glad they didn't combine them.

 

To prove your point though, I have the FW stab mapped to the same buttons I use for pitch trim on every other aircraft, so ultimately there is no difference.

 

Either way it doesn't matter once you learn they're all there! I didn't know about the FW stab for the longest time, you can imagine how silly I felt when someone told me about it.

[DDoutel]

Hmmm... putting all these perspectives together is giving me some ideas. I want "trim" or "stabilization" on the same controller buttons/axis for any plane. And ultimately, I'd really only want to have one controller profile to maintain. I should be able to achieve all this using the scripting capability of the CH Control Manager. 

 

Thanks, guys! Good stuff!

[busdriver]

Yeah I agree with all that for sure, and thats a cool tidbit about the Phantom and Viper. I didn't mean to defend the current setup so much as explain that it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

 

On the other hand, you could apply the same logic to e.g. water radiators and engine cowls. Afaik no plane has both, and they both serve the same purpose of cooling the engine, but I'm still glad they didn't combine them.

 

To prove your point though, I have the FW stab mapped to the same buttons I use for pitch trim on every other aircraft, so ultimately there is no difference.

 

Either way it doesn't matter once you learn they're all there! I didn't know about the FW stab for the longest time, you can imagine how silly I felt when someone told me about it.

 

To clarify about trim in the F-16, the FBW essentially trimmed for 1G. But when dropping bombs (dumb bombs not PGMs) we could/would roll a thumbwheel on the left console forward a notch to prevent a "banana" pass. The steeper the dive angle the more forward trim you would roll. With the trim set to neutral the jet would otherwise trim for 1G and as it accelerated whilst diving at the ground the nose would come up (think like a Bf-109 in an accelerating dive). Once you finished bombing the trim wheel was reset to neutral. The F-4...most guys trimmed slightly nose down so that the jet would accelerate quicker...but I digress.

 

WRT to water radiators and cowl flaps...brother I'm in total agreement. Same button/switch binding for both. I have one simulated cockpit and a finite number of brain bytes I want to spend on key bindings. Fortunately this sim lets you gang load keys.

[DDoutel]

To clarify about trim in the F-16, the FBW essentially trimmed for 1G. But when dropping bombs (dumb bombs not PGMs) we could/would roll a thumbwheel on the left console forward a notch to prevent a "banana" pass. The steeper the dive angle the more forward trim you would roll. With the trim set to neutral the jet would otherwise trim for 1G and as it accelerated whilst diving at the ground the nose would come up (think like a Bf-109 in an accelerating dive). Once you finished bombing the trim wheel was reset to neutral. The F-4...most guys trimmed slightly nose down so that the jet would accelerate quicker...but I digress.

 

WRT to water radiators and cowl flaps...brother I'm in total agreement. Same button/switch binding for both. I have one simulated cockpit and a finite number of brain bytes I want to spend on key bindings. Fortunately this sim lets you gang load keys.

 

Yup; the gang loading feature is huge. 

[some1]

Honestly, this is the only sim that makes such a mess of trim assignments, the only sim in which I can't map my trim to axis in most aircraft, even though those aircraft did have trim on an axis in real life. Even War Thunder does it better. 

 

And it's been like this for years...