New FM

[indiaciki]

The A/C gained weight if I am not mistaken. Landings fot easier for that matter. More realistc. What do you think?

[SCG_motoadve]

Excellent, real pilot here and finally it feels like flying an airplane, before they felt like ultralights.

[Dfwtd]

Same feeling here, they are not ultralights anymore, aircraft feel heavier

[JG27*Kornezov]

The 109 f4
The 109 is hard (close to impossible) to trim at medium to higher speeds. The trim for the 109 became completely strange. The high speed rolls are slower. However the slow speed rolls are better, allowing for faster vertical re-positions than before. Actually I have to completely rethink how to fly the plane, as some things are not working now, for example the snap rolls are not crisp but sluggish.

The FW 190 A3. I feel much better than before, allowing even some dogfight capabilities. You need to apply rudder in turn to stay coordinated. Before the patch the rudder was not needed in turns (strange).

It appeared to me yesterday that russian planes were loosing much more energy than before in maneuvers. I think the reason is that the new FM requires much more rudder to stay coordinated, something that was optional . So until people get used to it..., the red crowd was not able to maintain energy yesterday on the EU official Server. Before 2 FWs were bound to be defensive after 2 attacks. 

Last but not least the super flaps of the Yaks appear not to work in the same way.  

 

Despite the rudder fix I miss the crisp response of the old 109 f4. The fw 190 is more interesting now to fly.  
I reduced the sensitivity of the curves to 0 for pitch in the 109 in order to remedy somehow the sluggish pitch. Before I had it to 60%.                 

Edited August 30, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Air combat looks and feels more real now - no more jerking, throwing planes like they were kites. (early impression).

[JG27*Kornezov]

I do not know what real should look like, if I had to sustain for real the Gs I am constantly pulling .

Indeed the air combat is great, nevertheless it was not bad before. I enjoy meeting outstanding pilots online.

Just when you fly a plane for a year and that plane is not there anymore you miss it, I am talking about the old bf109 f4. I am not talking if it is bad or good or right or wrong FM.

Just a feeling of loss. Let's see if I will make friends with the new 109 f4.

RIP my old friend bf 109 f4.

Born Version 1.003 died Version 2.012

Edited August 30, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[Dr_Molem]

I do not know what real should look like, if I had to sustain for real the Gs I am constantly pulling .

Indeed the air combat is great, nevertheless it was not bad before. I enjoy meeting outstanding pilots online.

 

Just when you fly a plane for a year and that plane is not there anymore you miss it, I am talking about the old bf109 f4. I am not talking if it is bad or good or right or wrong FM.

Just a feeling of loss. Let's see if I will make friends with the new 109 f4.

 

RIP my old friend bf 109 f4.

Born Version 1.003 died Version 2.012

 

Old 109s were impostors. 

[JG27*Kornezov]

Still I loved that FM, it is time to say good bye but it will not be forgotten. I am happy to have some youtube videos that will preserve the memory .

Edited August 30, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[150GCT_Veltro]

Wobbling was terrible before on the 109. We just need to work a bit more on the trim setting i think, but as said above "air combat looks and feels more real now".

 

Some more pilots will come to the FW side, and this is not bad.

Edited August 30, 2017 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Venturi]

Don't forget, it saved the P-40 from being a complete waste of $20.

I would now say the opposite (since I'm a fan).

[JG27*Kornezov]

LOL, indeed for LW, being shot by p 40 was like for VVS being shot by a Stuka: a complete sense of humiliation and proof of doing something completely wrong.

P-40 deserved some uplift, because it was impossible to be as bad in real life.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

LOL, indeed for LW, being shot by p 40 was like for VVS being shot by a Stuka: a complete sense of humiliation and proof of doing something completely wrong.

P-40 deserved some uplift, because it was impossible to be as bad in real life.

Old P40 was exceptional in hands of Bender - he had several dozen kill streak in it and if I remember correctly he ended in first place in WOL score board.

[JG27*Kornezov]

Maybe you forget that where you meet Bender you meet Vachik too (another exceptional pilot) and they fly as a team using sound energy tactics. The old p 40 had nothing exceptional per se. If you fly 1 versus 1 against Bender and you have the Yak 1b the situation will be different, do not underestimate yourself.

Edited August 30, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Maybe you forget that where you meet Bender you meet Vachik too and they fly as a team using sound energy tactics. The old p 40 had nothing exceptional. If you fly 1 versus 1 against Bender and you have the Yak 1b the situation will be different, do not underestimate yourself.

Yes they do team up. It's just plane fact that they top, many guys team up in better planes and do not get even close. Old p40 was useless for many. I'm casual player just have fan shooting and been shot to and do not underestimate anyone.

[Max_Damage]

The wobble is still there. Is this realistic? Sure it is less pronounced now but it is still there.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Max_Damage

[9./JG27MAD-MM]

Is it possible to bring the Trim Position for Stab back to Zero somewhere? now you start every flight with nose Heavy Plane with about -77 % Trim it is a  little bit anoying? Edit 109F4

Edited August 30, 2017 by 9./JG27MAD-MM

[FTC_Riksen]

Well, after trying the 109 yesterday, I must say I love the new 109 FM and behavior. Feels like the plane has some weight into it and has become way more stable. What is concerning me, however, is that fact that some russian planes appear not have been affected by any increase load in controls at high speed (with the exception of maybe the yak). I had two LaGG3s and La5s pull insane Gs in front of me a like 500-600km/h like they were in i16s. In addition, the spitfire seems to be rolling better than the 109 at medium to high speeds. I do not have any numbers, documentation or even tests to support any claims here, I'm just giving my impressions and would like to know yours. Any one else got this impression?

 

Note, this is not a complain and I love the new FM

[ITAF_Rani]

I do not know what real should look like, if I had to sustain for real the Gs I am constantly pulling .

Indeed the air combat is great, nevertheless it was not bad before. I enjoy meeting outstanding pilots online.

Just when you fly a plane for a year and that plane is not there anymore you miss it, I am talking about the old bf109 f4. I am not talking if it is bad or good or right or wrong FM.

Just a feeling of loss. Let's see if I will make friends with the new 109 f4.

RIP my old friend bf 109 f4.

Born Version 1.003 died Version 2.012

I feel 109 more heavy and cannot perform aerobatic manouvre so easily like before..expecially barrell rolls..and outmanouvre during evading situation Edited August 30, 2017 by ITAF_Rani

[Herne]

Well, after trying the 109 yesterday, I must say I love the new 109 FM and behavior. Feels like the plane has some weight into it and has become way more stable. What is concerning me, however, is that fact that some russian planes appear not have been affected by any increase load in controls at high speed (with the exception of maybe the yak). I had two LaGG3s and La5s pull insane Gs in front of me a like 500-600km/h like they were in i16s. In addition, the spitfire seems to be rolling better than the 109 at medium to high speeds. I do not have any numbers, documentation or even tests to support any claims here, I'm just giving my impressions and would like to know yours. Any one else got this impression?

 

Note, this is not a complain and I love the new FM

 

Give them a try on berloga, Play both sides, with assorted AC should be able to give you a quick opinion of how the FM has affected both sides.

I find it much easier to lose control in a spitfire and the yak's now. LA 5 felt really nice, and the i16 still needs a gentle touch, I guess it always did though.

[=WH=PangolinWranglin]

I noticed some buffeting that I hadn't noticed before. When flying low over ridges on the fantastic Kuban map in my Spitfire and P40, I noticed that as I passed low my tail would whip back and forth slightly. At first I though I clipped a tree, but I did it again and again on a clear ridge line and still noticed this. Does anyone know what aerodynamic force this might be? I'm stuck at college right now now so I can't tell you any more details or do anymore testing. 

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

I noticed same.

[Finkeren]

The Lavochkins are now quite maneuverable at high speeds, though still nowhere close to the Fw 190.

 

I like that there is now really notable difference between the planes that are agile at low speeds and the ones who do better at high speeds.

[Hoss]

Anyone notice the Slip and ball indicator works now.................  can actually use yaw trim to center it, and coordinate rudder in turns..... it was one of the very first things I noticed when I first started this game that it didn't work and you had to guess if you were using the correct amount of rudder while flying.

 

Now you can find that sweet spot where the 109 is hard trimmed to fly straight and level......................  just fly the ball.....................

 

Hoss

[Guest deleted@50488]

Well,

 

.) there is still huge wobbling in pitch, and on roll / yaw, at least on the aircraft I tested ( 109g2 and f4 and the P40E ), and there is still way too much rudder effectiveness at taxi speeds / power settings.

 

.) With nill wind, and the engine idling, the aircraft veers left all of the time, and if you add just a bit of power to start taxiing, even idling afterwards, you'll have to keep permament and considerable rudder deflection to the right all of the time.

 

.) As before, tail surfaces are, imo, too effective, and this impacts on performance and realistic behaviour in various aspects.

 

.) Weathercock effect is also still pronounced, noticeable during taxi under even slight x-wind.

 

 

Unfortunately graphics were never the most important aspect of a flight simulator for me... but graphics wise, and performance wise for their level of quality, IL-2 excels, that must be said.

Edited August 30, 2017 by jcomm

[Herne]

Anyone notice the Slip and ball indicator works now.................  can actually use yaw trim to center it, and coordinate rudder in turns..... it was one of the very first things I noticed when I first started this game that it didn't work and you had to guess if you were using the correct amount of rudder while flying.

 

Now you can find that sweet spot where the 109 is hard trimmed to fly straight and level......................  just fly the ball.....................

 

Hoss

 

I didn't think the 109's had a rudder trim ?

[StG2_Manfred]

I didn't think the 109's had a rudder trim ?

 

He means to fly coordinated...

[Herne]

He means to fly coordinated...

ah ok. "Yaw trim" confused me

[Hoss]

No, you have to fly with constant right rudder in 109, but the trim tabs the ground crew set are at predetermined settings for certain speeds (Hard Trimmed).  you can watch the ball and speedometer and find out where the sweet spot is where the 109 will fly without using your rudder pedals to keep the ball centered.  , and then use pitch trim to adjust the level of flight.  I was used to the way planes flew in the legacy IL2 by using the slip ball indicator, this version they have never really worked............... it's a complete new learning experience getting used to using it again.  VR would be nice, all you would have to do is move your eyes to see it instead of your head with TIR. 

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

Edited August 30, 2017 by 1./JG54_Hoss

[Jade_Monkey]

I find it much easier to lose control in a spitfire and the yak's now. LA 5 felt really nice, and the i16 still needs a gentle touch, I guess it always did though.

Sorry but there were no changes to the Spitfire FM as it never had the old FM.

 

Just goes to show how half of the comments in here are based on perception and not facts.

[Herne]

Sorry but there were no changes to the Spitfire FM as it never had the old FM.

 

Just goes to show how half of the comments in here are based on perception and not facts.

 

I can assure you the FM changes affected all AC, including the spitfire

Edited August 30, 2017 by =11=herne

[Nibbio]

I can assure you the FM changes affected all AC, including the spitfire

 

This chapter of the release notes certainly applies to all aircraft:

 

Main changes:

10.1. All aircraft stability along the pitch and yaw axes have been reworked. Planes reaction to control surfaces input became much less volatile and closer to reality.

10.2. Aircraft controllability was tuned simultaneously with the stability in the same control channels. Control surfaces inputs in different flight conditions became more realistic. Aircraft handling became much less 'sharp' and more convenient and predictable.

10.3. Roll 'dipping' after a full rudder input has been significantly decreased for all aircraft. Flat turns, coordinated side-slipping (straight banked flight with full rudder input for braking) and other maneuvers with side slipping motion at large angles became much closer to real ones.

10.4. Time of stabilizers and trimmers shift from end to end is now close to realistically possible.

10.5. Trim effectiveness has been corrected for several aircraft to correspond to the updated balance boundaries.

10.6. Load increase of the control surfaces has been corrected as the speed increases, changing aircraft controllability at various flight speeds and making them function closer to real data.

10.7. Because of the tuned stability characteristics, aircraft lose directional stability in an event of horizontal surfaces destruction.

10.8. Because of the tuned stability characteristics, aircraft lose lateral stability in an event of vertical surfaces destruction.

10.9. Because of the tuned controllability and stability and additional stall tuning, aircraft stall behavior changed. An aircraft sticks less in a spin, spin recovery became easier and more predictable. Therefore, an aircraft behavior during stall and spin became closer to the real thing. If there was a specific spin data available for an aircraft, it was taken into account to make the FM even more accurate (additional details follow below).

10.10. Thanks to aircraft stability and controllability changes taxiing and take-off and landing runs became more predictable and controllable.

10.11. Run-down time of the freely rotating landing gear wheels has been decreased by increasing friction values in the wheel bearings.

10.12. Landing gear brakes friction has been increased, making the aircraft stopping and holding while revving the engine(s) easier.

10.13. Air flow at beyond-stall AoA is now modeled better, making bobbling and shaking during a stall more realistic.

10.14. Control surfaces buffeting values at high flight speeds have been tuned: amplitudes were lowered, frequencies increased.

10.15. Flight stick and pedals shifting speed became slower even more due to increased load at high flight speeds.

10.16. Oscillation delay time of the sideslip indicator (the small ball) has been corrected.

10.17. Aircraft fragments behavior (unnaturally smooth fall of detached ailerons, elevators, rudders, etc.) has been corrected, especially at high speeds.

10.18. Mouse control quality has been improved significantly.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

I had my curves set to 70% before, now they are set at 0, which is good right? I should not have to "dampen them down" so drastically if things are correct.

[Herne]

Main thing I noticed with it was that pre patch it was easier to ride the edge of the envelope with it, you could pull into the turn until buffet, and then some. You don't get as much warning now. An accelerated stall results in a wing drop and a spin.

It's not a big deal, its just different to how it was, still really very nice to fly though.

[drahn]

Can German Fighter do Snap Roll? 

I wonder can we do snap roll like old IL-2 1946.

[Mmaruda]

Can German Fighter do Snap Roll? 

I wonder can we do snap roll like old IL-2 1946.

 

I don't think you actually could do that in 1946, I have only seen people do snap rolls in some late war Japanese plane (can't remember the which one). As for LW stuff, I kind of remember that you couldn't even do a roll when you kicked the rudder to wall rapidly. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't have it installed right now to check (and I don't care, new map, dudes!).

 

Anyway, can someone confirm if anything has been fixed with the P-40's engine? I nearly cooked the damn thing just trying to do a loop at 75% pitch and fully opened rads. Crap-coloured liquid started leaking out of the plane and I had to land. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong, but it seems to me like the engine wants to explode when you so much a dare push that throttle more than 2/3rds forward.

[JG27*Kornezov]

Main thing I noticed with it was that pre patch it was easier to ride the edge of the envelope with it, you could pull into the turn until buffet, and then some. You don't get as much warning now. An accelerated stall results in a wing drop and a spin.

It's not a big deal, its just different to how it was, still really very nice to fly though.

 

Indeed the joystick deflection in bf 109 f4  is completely different now to achieve the same G load. I had to change the sensitivity in the pitch. With my old settings I had to deflect it all the way, which feels arcadish, so from 60 pitch sensitivity I am at 0 now. There is a problem  that whenever there is a huge change in the FM you need to adapt the sensitivity in order to use the same joystick pressure you are used to. Otherwise you are messing with your muscle memory which is bad.

 

In the old FM I had 3 main options regarding turns and stabilizer use. Either I keep negative -30 for example and I retain  energy in the turn, or I get to 0 trim for balance, or slightly positive trim for maximizing instantaneous turn capabilities. All that with the same stick and power settings.

Now I feel I need to use much more the throttle than before to power down as the plane locks even at medium speed. Yesterday a la 5 made complete rolls in front of me, while I was trying to guess a lot the trajectory unable to follow at all having very little roll authority to chase him in 109 f4.

 

 

Can German Fighter do Snap Roll? 

I wonder can we do snap roll like old IL-2 1946.

The snap roll was very good in 109 f4 before the patch. Now the plane does not snap. Still trying.

Edited August 30, 2017 by JG27_Kornezov

[LuftManu]

I really love the new FM. All planes seems more like planes. Never flew one of these warbirds but certanily can say that the stick forces are now some heavy reminder of how the Fw 190 was pleased with agilty at high speeds...

I really like the new direction of the FM, I don´t know if there is room to improve because I am no expert but as I say before, this is better than before, at least for me. Fighting now seems to be more interesting.

[Venturi]

Snap rolls require transient lift loss on one wing yes? Difficult to do on a plane with effective high lift automatic slats, designed to prevent wing stall?

[BlitzPig_EL]

There you go again Venturi, clouding things up with a healthy dose of reality.

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

No, you have to fly with constant right rudder in 109, but the trim tabs the ground crew set are at predetermined settings for certain speeds (Hard Trimmed). you can watch the ball and speedometer and find out where the sweet spot is where the 109 will fly without using your rudder pedals to keep the ball centered. , and then use pitch trim to adjust the level of flight. I was used to the way planes flew in the legacy IL2 by using the slip ball indicator, this version they have never really worked............... it's a complete new learning experience getting used to using it again. VR would be nice, all you would have to do is move your eyes to see it instead of your head with TIR.

 

Cheers

 

Hoss

Actually they worked quite well until a few patches ago. You also had to ride the 109's pedals and adjust depending on your airspeed. This got disabled a few patches ago. Some of the functionality seems to have been restored in this patch.